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Posted: 9/10/2005 9:01:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:03:09 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Much like the 'militia' all qualifying members of this forum are involuntary members of the 67th Chairborne. But just like being an "able bodied citizen" doesn't mean jack in the government definition of the 'militia' anymore I don't think any state will recognize our status in the 67th.

And in NOLA we have a situation where out of state private contractors are allowed to bear arms but the citizens of that state are having their arms confiscated. The .gov basically recognizes the authority of one group but not the authority of the other. And all that is needed is a declaration of a "state of emergency" which is why most of us have firearms in the first place.

So perhaps it is time that we all enter the world of the private security specialist.

From my experience with Wackenhut Commandos all that is really needed is an ID badge of some kind and a goofy polyester uniform. Surely we can come up with the former and do much better on the latter.

What we need is an company like "Goatboy Security Specialists" whose members are forever training but never seem to be actually contracted out. However these same "private contractors" should have the capacity to "self mobilize" in states of emergency and should be considered "automatically contracted" in cases where they are assisting other members.

In other words in any "state of emergency" these arfcom "private contractors" would immediately repsond to the local security needs of their area as a privately contracted security specialists with identification denoting their status as such and authorization to be armed in that capacity.

Basically, just like the rest of the "private contractors" you will just need an "official" ID and a mandate.

And when the "authorities" come around produce your ID and advise them that you are working in an "official capacity."

Chapter members could use the Hometown Forums to coordinate Emergency Response efforts in advance of impending disasters.

BRC coud qualify as annual training and I'm sure woudl could come up with some nifty looking IDs for which we could all cough up $25.00 for. Then we'd only need a home office where someone could verify the current status (which would be mostly classified information) on each private security specialists.

Now some of you may think this is a joke. But I bet an official looking ID in NOLA would make all the difference right now between losing and keeping your personal firearms.

"The owner of this home (even if it is yours) has hired me in an official capacity to provide for the security needs of his family and his property...here is my ID and please move along."
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:02:07 AM EDT
Interesting Idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:03:20 AM EDT by david_g17]
i was thinking about buying a bunch of sks's and ammo and re-arming the civilians...
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:03:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i was thinking about buying a bunch of sks's and ammo and re-arming the civilians...



What about doing that in an "official capacity"?

You would basically be sub contracting.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:04:00 AM EDT
What would we do?

Descend upon storm-ravaged areas to take pictures for photoshopping, restore internet connectivity, maybe do a little geocaching, maybe blow up some boloated bodies with tannerite, maybe.....



Seriously, Steyr, mayube General Discussion isn't the best forum to put this thread in.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:05:24 AM EDT
You know its crazy enought to work! Keep working the angle...
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:06:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:06:51 AM EDT
I've noticed on several occasions how an "official" ID can open doors.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:07:51 AM EDT
Who is going to make up the ID cards?


If you need some blanks with a magnetic strip let me know I have a box of them
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:08:10 AM EDT
Only problem is the hoops you have to jump through in each state. PS companies have to be certified/licensed in most states to operate there, and the officers would have to be certified/licensed by the state as well, and that doesn't include the seperate certification/license to carry while on duty.

Good idea, but a little more complicated then is worth it in reality.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:08:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
You know its crazy enought to work! Keep working the angle...



+1

Need some additional details...sort of a Blackhawk-type organization?

HH
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:09:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Who is going to make up the ID cards?


If you need some blanks with a magnetic strip let me know I have a box of them



Which ever Avila we nominate as Grand Poobah of the Racoon Club.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:10:25 AM EDT
I'm down with it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:13:04 AM EDT
Goofy-ness aside, the concept of a "citizen militia" deserves serious consideration. If you read Freds (the M14 stock guy) editorial columns in Shotgun News, he adovcates rifle training for the same purpose. Maybe we need another (besides the NRA) means of getting recognition from the government. They should be happy to have us as auxiliary Homeland Security forces.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:13:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
Only problem is the hoops you have to jump through in each state. PS companies have to be certified/licensed in most states to operate there, and the officers would have to be certified/licensed by the state as well, and that doesn't include the seperate certification/license to carry while on duty.

Good idea, but a little more complicated then is worth it in reality.



Not really. These are "private contractors."

You think all the security subcontractors working in NOLA now have anything more than the employers ID badge that they are issued?

And in the middle of a disaster local authorities are not gonna be able to run a credit check on you. They are gonna check your ID, maybe make a phone call to see if you are ACTUALLY a private contractor working for the entity named on the ID and then they are going to move on to the next guy.

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:17:55 AM EDT
I think you would have a better chance of doing this on a local level rather than trying to do something Nationwide. Aug's Whine & Cheeze Security Service would draw a lot less attention then the National ARFCOM Security Service.

do it legitimly would require actual license issued from states and the real deal breaker...insurance

echo6
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Goofy-ness aside, the concept of a "citizen militia" deserves serious consideration. If you read Freds (the M14 stock guy) editorial columns in Shotgun News, he adovcates rifle training for the same purpose. Maybe we need another (besides the NRA) means of getting recognition from the government. They should be happy to have us as auxiliary Homeland Security forces.



You are correct. The CONCEPT of a "citizen militia" or an "auxillary force" is completely valid. However neither has been recognized since the Dick Bill of 1903.

What IS recognized currently are "private security" consultants. Now we could all EASILY form our own LLC or S- Corp and function in the capacity of a security agent for that corp. (and some of us already have done exactly that) but it would be nice to have a person at the home office confirm your ID if some local makes a phone call.

What I'm suggesting is the same idea, but on a national level.

We all work for "Some Name Better Than Arfcom Security."

"Here is my ID, we are operating in this area and our base of operations are currently conducted from these addresses. Please keep us advised of operations and government efforts in these areas. Thank you."
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:20:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:20:52 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By echo6:
I think you would have a better chance of doing this on a local level rather than trying to do something Nationwide. Aug's Whine & Cheeze Security Service would draw a lot less attention then the National ARFCOM Security Service.

do it legitimly would require actual license issued from states and the real deal breaker...insurance

echo6



You think their isn't a local corp. down here with it's own security consultants?

I'm just suggesting local chapters of a larger home office. This home office would mostly be for records and other clerical issues.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:20:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:21:05 AM EDT
Arfcom should become a corporation, and all paying team members will be co-ceo's. That way we can buy all the Class 3 and NFA items we want without having to get a sign off.

Digital
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:22:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
Arfcom should become a corporation, and all paying team members will be co-ceo's. That way we can buy all the Class 3 and NFA items we want without having to get a sign off.

Digital



Nice idea BUT I don't think the Avila's want to be personally responsible for this crew and their NFA toys.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:25:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By echo6:
I think you would have a better chance of doing this on a local level rather than trying to do something Nationwide. Aug's Whine & Cheeze Security Service would draw a lot less attention then the National ARFCOM Security Service.

do it legitimly would require actual license issued from states and the real deal breaker...insurance

echo6



You think their isn't a local corp. down here with it's own security consultants?

I'm just suggesting local chapters of a larger home office. This home office would mostly be for records and other clerical issues.




Got any contact info for HR? I wouldent mind a part time security gig
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:26:29 AM EDT
Count me in.

After work I'll go looking for a mall ninja uniform.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:28:25 AM EDT
Who's going to carry the security bond insurance for when somebody gets shot?

What your talking about here, is some looter OWNING ARFcom after he wins if from Ed Sr. in the legal settlement.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:29:58 AM EDT
A band aid on a sucking chest wound at best.The underlying cause,the sickening and infuriating destruction of the Constitution ON OUR WATCH must be dealt with.Iv'e thought for years that there was a fight coming but I didn't believe it would be in my lifetime or that i'd be an old man and only good for logistical support.Our recent victories with the end of the AWB and widespread concealed carry legislation gave me hope.I see now that the cancer is much deeper than I had ever feared.What recourse do we have? The courts who have said that your private proprty can be taken and given to someone who's wealthier? Who have found that the government can arrest and hold an American citizen indefinetly,without charges,if the .gov declares he is a terrorist?The Congress who pass law upon law ad nauseum to murder freedom with a thousand tiny cuts?The Presidency who's office has in my lifetime lied on national television to the people,handed vital technology to an enemy state,forced American troops to wear the uniform of a foreign body under U.N. authority?It is evident that the career politicians and judges no longer feel they get their power from the people.No longer can we draw yet another line in the sand.New Orleans MUST be our Alamo or the Nation is lost.The fight is no longer coming.It' on,NOW.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:30:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:34:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i was thinking about buying a bunch of sks's and ammo and re-arming the civilians...



What about doing that in an "official capacity"?

You would basically be sub contracting.



we'd risk the high likelyhood of everything being "comandeered" or "confiscated" if done officialy.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:36:52 AM EDT
AUG, I am definitely in. This idea has merit, and the need is certainly there.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:39:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:39:59 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Reporting for duty, SIR!



Here I am modelling my latest red dot sight defeating body armor. While it may look like an innocent XXXXXXXXXXXXL PVC rain poncho it's actually capable of stopping a TOW missile

As you can see, I'm also wearing my "Viva Le France" combination PASGT helmet cover and surrender flag. It's designed to project a subtle air of passivity and harmlessness to occupying troops...



In all seriousness, I'd like to help out in any way that I could.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:39:30 AM EDT
Are you saying that this would be a legitimate company with insurance/licenses, etc or basically a fake that in a SHTF situation could pass as being legitimate? I like the idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:40:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:43:24 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Only problem is the hoops you have to jump through in each state. PS companies have to be certified/licensed in most states to operate there, and the officers would have to be certified/licensed by the state as well, and that doesn't include the seperate certification/license to carry while on duty.

Good idea, but a little more complicated then is worth it in reality.



Not really. These are "private contractors."

You think all the security subcontractors working in NOLA now have anything more than the employers ID badge that they are issued?
And in the middle of a disaster local authorities are not gonna be able to run a credit check on you. They are gonna check your ID, maybe make a phone call to see if you are ACTUALLY a private contractor working for the entity named on the ID and then they are going to move on to the next guy.



Yes, and it's something that is usualy taken care of by the company. I garuntee you that when Blackwater got the call for contractors to go to NO the first people they called were folks with NO security licenses.

Goonboss can break it down better then I because he travels around the US doing jobs so the spesifics of what it takes in different states he would know. The only state I can really speak about is Wisconsin because thats where I'm licensed.


ETA: I'm in

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:40:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:44:59 AM EDT by schornstinefager]
SteyrAUG I like the way you think ,wish we could go one better and form a corp then let us indavidual officers pay for the m16 and assign it to them in there duties .....and get away with it ..........oh well in a perfect world but on a more serious note after seeing what went down in new orleans i was going to start looking for the local milita somthing i never would have done before
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:44:17 AM EDT
I like it. As we are seeing "civilians" have no real rights anymore, but organizations get a pass and "security contractors" seem to get professional courtesy from LE, as traditionally many of them were off duty LEO's. As Independent Contractors working with "arfcom security, llc" I think the liability and insurance, etc questions could be dealt with.

If the two guys on the ABC tape from New Orleans had on plain back t shirts and had security contractor ID, I'll bet they'd still be patrolling their neighborhood instead of getting disarmed and cuffed. Its really not all that harebrained and should be explored further.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:50:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Who's going to carry the security bond insurance for when somebody gets shot?

What your talking about here, is some looter OWNING ARFcom after he wins if from Ed Sr. in the legal settlement.



PRIVATE CONTRACTOR.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:53:44 AM EDT
Kinda like a privae Citizens Corps?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:53:47 AM EDT
Interesting. I want to come back and read this when I have more time, but it deserves more than a simple 'tag'.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:56:37 AM EDT
Just go find your local Militia unit, and join.


Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:56:53 AM EDT
I'm in, but $25 for an ID! Hell since the bitch left I haven't even been able to renew my membership! Oh well, maybe I'll donate a pint or two that way I can get my card!
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:58:30 AM EDT
Idea has merit...

Aviator
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:00:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Just go find your local Militia unit, and join.





I would if KS had one.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:02:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Just go find your local Militia unit, and join.





I would if KS had one.



Start one, it doesn't take much.

AWRM

NATIONAL MILITIA STANDARDS
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:04:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 10:05:53 AM EDT by FUZ1ON]
The "Minute Men" are doing it.....and in more than just one state...I think it's a capitol idea that should've been addressed long ago and just needs a little logistical organization and polishing....such as...

1. Member/Organization Fee's to include "3rd Party Drug Screening" and "Background Check"

2. A Weapons Qualification/Certfication Program.

3. An established "Physical Requirements" matrix curved for age groupings to prove "Able Body" status...with merits and promotions given to those who maintain high levels of physical fitness, survival knowledge, and marksmenship/weapon proficiency.

Could be a cool thing gents...maybe even slide in under the "ARFCOM Minute Man Reserves" marque....I know my former U.S. Marine @$$ would be one of the first in line.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:08:36 AM EDT
I like it!!

Arfcom Security - An Army of Both
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:09:03 AM EDT
Hmm.

Tag for further discussion.
Seems like a decent idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:09:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 10:10:40 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By R-32:
Just go find your local Militia unit, and join.





They have NO recognized authority to do anything or even be armed in the view of local authorities.

My bet is they will be disarmed and viewed as a potential threat.

Screaming about the Constitution or "God given rights" will just get you pegged as a radical and probably get you arrested for your own safety.

Saying "Hi, I work for these guys and in this capacity" will get you a LOT farther than any "Constitutionally guaranteed rights" sadly.

While you may win your court case later IF the judge rules your rights had been violated, your rights will still have been violated and you will still have been disarmed at a time when you very existence may depend upon your capacity to defend yourself.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:13:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
I like it!!

Arfcom Security - An Army of Both



Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:14:50 AM EDT
I'm in.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:15:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:17:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
img164.imageshack.us/img164/2607/newownerofarfcom20fn.jpg



You have a better idea?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:17:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
Count me in.

After work I'll go looking for a mall ninja uniform. Super Tachnical Gear



+1 Patty
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:17:23 AM EDT
I like the idea.

I think trying to reverse the 1903 Dick Bill would be more effective at restoring a true 'militia' to the citizens of this country, but considering the lack of participation in the political process by the sheeple combined with 'there ain't no way in hell we are giving away power' mentality in Washington, it would never happen.

So, back to the idea. I'm in. I already have a squad trained, equipped, and ready to go SIR!!
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