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Posted: 7/17/2008 1:39:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 2:08:52 AM EST by rightwingnut]
I don't like it when cops pull you over & ask you step out of vehicle. Sometimes they do it, sometimes not. Unless I am under arrest, I would rather just sit right there. Do you have a legal obligation to do it? The reason I don't like it is b/c then they ask permission to handcuff you for their safety. Then they ask to stick their hands in your pockets. Etc.

I remember getting pulled over once & having all this happen & I'm thinking, "I'm handcuffed and another man is playing pocket pool with me, this sucks."

Tell me if these assumption are wrong:
-I dont' have to exit vehicle unless I am under arrest
-I don't have to accept cuffs unless "" ""
-I don't have to answer any questions whatsoever (5th)
-I don't have to give permission to search my person or my vehicle

If a cop is being a dick can you tell him what you think or is there some sort of law against calling a cop names?
Edited to Add: really shouldn't call cop names, but I would like to tell him that I perceive him to be rude & unnecessarily confrontational.

I think the only thing i am required to do is:
-roll down my wiindow & shut off car
-not make sudden moves or hide my hands
-give him license etc.
-submit to a brethalizer or forefit my license
-sumbit to arrest if he arrest me for X
-sign ticket
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:41:07 AM EST
Sit in the car next time
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:41:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 1:48:19 AM EST by Bob1984]
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do.

However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search. As for questions, chances are good that you are legally required to identify yourself when asked.

Naturally, if you are reluctant to show your driver's license and you're pulled over, the cop is going to logically think he's got a guy who is driving on a suspended license or no license at all.

Questions like "where are you going ?" "why are you here ?" and "what are you doing on the road at this hour ?" should not have answers that are directly incriminating, therefore a reluctance to answer those questions is going to raise a lot of red flags.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:42:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 1:43:25 AM EST by tc556guy]
You have to follow the instructions of the officer, yes. Where in the world do you even get the idea that any of your suggestions pass legal muster? Decide whether you are going to "accept" cuffs? Wow.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:43:26 AM EST
My thought was if he asks me to get out I would ask if I was under arrest or if not if I had an obligation to get out. If he tells me I do then I would get out.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:44:37 AM EST
You will meet Mr. Taser if you don't. It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, you either respect the cops authority or get the cattle prod.

Another question is, if you are a passenger and are drunk do you have to exit the vehicle? If you are ordered to exit the vehicle can the LEO then charge you with public intoxication? I've heard of it being done before.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:44:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do. However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search.


That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, they still have to have 2 or more reasons to search the vehicle. (Stains, strange smell, suspicious behavior, etc etc)
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:45:13 AM EST
In Louisiana, you should get out of the car
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:45:44 AM EST
You don't have to comply with any of it, but say no and he will find a reason to arrest you.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:46:19 AM EST
Had a rough night?

I would just do as they ask. Knock on wood, I have never been asked to step out of the car
even with having my CCW permit.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:46:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By wicked_chicken:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do. However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search.


That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, they still have to have 2 or more reasons to search the vehicle. (Stains, strange smell, suspicious behavior, etc etc)


That's correct. If they can articulate probable cause for a search, then they are going to search regardless of consent. If they really want to search that bad, they're going to find a way to do it.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:47:30 AM EST
I know you don't have to answer any questions, make any statements, or give permission for any searches.

I have been cuffed three times since i was 17. All three times they asked me, very politely i might add, they didn't just tell me to turn around & put my hands behind back.

I really don't know whether or not it was really an option. My suggestion is that if they want to feel safe they shouldn't ask me to get out, or they should wait till another cop get there to watch me while they do whatever.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:50:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By wicked_chicken:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do. However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search.


That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, they still have to have 2 or more reasons to search the vehicle. (Stains, strange smell, suspicious behavior, etc etc)


That's correct. If they can articulate probable cause for a search, then they are going to search regardless of consent. If they really want to search that bad, they're going to find a way to do it.


And it's not beneath them to create a reason.Still, never consent to a search of your vehicle.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:51:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
I know you don't have to answer any questions, make any statements, or give permission for any searches.

I have been cuffed three times since i was 17. All three times they asked me, very politely i might add, they didn't just tell me to turn around & put my hands behind back.

I really don't know whether or not it was really an option. My suggestion is that if they want to feel safe they shouldn't ask me to get out, or they should wait till another cop get there to watch me while they do whatever.


Some departments have a "handcuff/detain everyone" kind of policy. The usual justification being officer safety. Sounds like the department in question may be one of them.

You're probably going to get cuffed no matter what you do. Trying to say no to being cuffed is likely to get you treated as an uncooperative subject...
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:52:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do.

However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search. As for questions, chances are good that you are legally required to identify yourself when asked.

Naturally, if you are reluctant to show your driver's license and you're pulled over, the cop is going to logically think he's got a guy who is driving on a suspended license or no license at all.

Questions like "where are you going ?" "why are you here ?" and "what are you doing on the road at this hour ?" should not have answers that are directly incriminating, therefore a reluctance to answer those questions is going to raise a lot of red flags.


Of course I would give him my license & my name. As for all other question I would respectfully decline to answer them w/o the presence of legal council.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:58:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 2:11:50 AM EST by rightwingnut]
Once I got cuffed when approached when walking around small IA town in middle on night (nigh owl).

Once got cuffed after getting pulled over in a dragnet on I-75 NB. The guy was nice, but this other cop was this bull dike angry @ the world 5 foot tall bitch K9 cop. Jeeze she was a bitch.

The third time was at a routine traffic stop for speeding in small town FL. The guy ran up to the car real fast, like before I had it in park. He asked for my registration & I said, "well officer, I have a handgun in the glove box. Do you want me to reach over & get my registration?"

Then he asked me to get out of car so he could get it. Actually, he didn't cuff me that time. Its funny. I got out, he got in & got my gun out of GB while I was standing right there behind him. Then he stands back up & ask me if I have any more?

Then I said, "yeah, I have a revolver." He asked where. He got this really funny look on his face when I told him that it was in my front pocket, like he was really disgusted with himself for being such a dumbass.

THen I told him bout the SP1 in the trunk.

There I was in the McDonalds parking lot by the drive though w/ my AR & two hand guns on the trunk lid w/ two cops. That cop was like, "What's the rifle for...I mean, it can't be for protection..."

Then the other one, who was a good ole boy actually said, ahh man, he's seen red dawn, he's prepared for when the shit hit the fan. Then the second cop proceeded to talk guns with me for five minutes.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:59:00 AM EST
Legally those factors vary in every jursidiction.

In the real world you are at the mercy of the officer.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:01:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Tell me if these assumption are wrong:
-I dont' have to exit vehicle unless I am under arrest
-I don't have to accept cuffs unless "" ""
-I don't have to answer any questions whatsoever (5th)
-I don't have to give permission to search my person or my vehicle

If a cop is being a dick can you tell him what you think or is there some sort of law against calling a cop names?
IBTSS I'll say 6 pages, lots of arguing about Terry v. Ohio, 12 references to "apologists", 5 "give that a try and see how it works out for you", 3 instances of name calling, and one mod IMing someone a reminder to play by the rules. No locks or bans though.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:01:38 AM EST


Just how often are you getting pulled over, and what are you doing that has them pulling you out of the vehicle?
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:02:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomislav:


Just how often are you getting pulled over, and what are you doing that has them pulling you out of the vehicle?


The guy was makin a move, man

Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:04:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:


Just how often are you getting pulled over, and what are you doing that has them pulling you out of the vehicle?


The guy was makin a move, man






Say no more! They HAD to get it on...
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:06:00 AM EST
I not getting "pulled out of vehicle"

Speeding, rolling stop, walking around at night, improper lane change.

I have been asked to step out of vehicle only twice that I can recall, one time I was approached on foot.

One time I almost got arrested for walking on the beach @ night when a robbery was committed. But they polorided me & showed it to the homeowner & then just took me home.


Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:30:11 AM EST
Whenever I get pulled over by LEO, I always yell "You Will Not Touch My Firearm", followup with a massive adrenalive dump and the immediately blade at 35 degree angle.

Why blade at a 35 degree angle? Because I like to be different, that's why.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:31:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:31:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 2:33:50 AM EST by Justice23]
Pennsylvania V. Mimms covers this

Yes you do have to step out.

And Maryland V. Wilson covers passengers.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:34:18 AM EST
OP is on a path to catching a resisting charge.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:34:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:38:30 AM EST
Another thing I don't like it getting asked "Papers Please." in the USA. If I am passenger or am walking around on the street I will not ever give them my ID just b/c if they are asking for it just b/c.

if a crime was committed in the area, then they can & will & should detain you & detain and/or arrest you. But I won't be hassled & asked for my papers like I in the USSR, unless of course I'm driving a motor vehicle.

Its not that I have a big problem w/ cops, even though three of them I have dealt with have been major assholes, & one of them kind of a douche. Actually, most of them have been reasonable if not down right generous.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:39:50 AM EST
This thread is going nowhere fast.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:42:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By gopeterson:
Whenever I get pulled over by LEO, I always yell "You Will Not Touch My Firearm", followup with a massive adrenalive dump and the immediately blade at 35 degree angle.

Why blade at a 35 degree angle? Because I like to be different, that's why.



You forgot to yell, "DISENGAGE...."
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:44:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
You will meet Mr. Taser if you don't. It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, you either respect the cops authority or get the cattle prod.

Another question is, if you are a passenger and are drunk do you have to exit the vehicle? If you are ordered to exit the vehicle can the LEO then charge you with public intoxication? I've heard of it being done before.


I have had that happen. He wanted me to step out and talk. I politely told him I am too drunk to get out. The officer didn't make much of a deal about it. Though after the stop (driver arrested), he tried to talk me into driving home. Not sure if he was an idiot or trying to nail me too.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:47:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By rjroberts:

Originally Posted By gopeterson:
Whenever I get pulled over by LEO, I always yell "You Will Not Touch My Firearm", followup with a massive adrenalive dump and the immediately blade at 35 degree angle.

Why blade at a 35 degree angle? Because I like to be different, that's why.



You forgot to yell, "DISENGAGE...."


Fuck!!!!! I knew I was doing it wrong. I'm such an idiot!!!
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:47:54 AM EST
You will do as you are told or you will get a billy club shampoo.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:51:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Another thing I don't like it getting asked "Papers Please." in the USA. If I am passenger or am walking around on the street I will not ever give them my ID just b/c if they are asking for it just b/c.

if a crime was committed in the area, then they can & will & should detain you & detain and/or arrest you. But I won't be hassled & asked for my papers like I in the USSR, unless of course I'm driving a motor vehicle.

Its not that I have a big problem w/ cops, even though three of them I have dealt with have been major assholes, & one of them kind of a douche. Actually, most of them have been reasonable if not down right generous.

Just how many have you had to deal with? The average person doesn't deal with officers very often. if you do, that should be a clue to you that something in your lifestyle is wrong.
Ever think that the three you had problems with were less than pleasant because of that big chip on your shoulder that I can see from here?
anyone who goes around posting " I wont do this" and "i wont do that" when dealing with officers has a chip.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:52:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:


That's correct. If they can articulate probable cause for a search, then they are going to search regardless of consent. If they really want to search that bad, they're going to find a way to do it.


Incorrect, well they can do anything they want by the side of the road, but they'll also have a very short and exciting career as soon as I get my hands on a computer and printer.


The old fail safe is to walk a dog around the car & then say, "the dog seems excited about something in the car."

Then they are in like flint. Dog interpretation can be kind of arbitrary. Had that 5' lady cop pull that crap on I-75. Course, back then, they didn't even ask me if they coudld search before the walked the dog. At that time I would have consented to search.

The only looked at my tool case in my trunk & not very close.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:56:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 3:00:05 AM EST by rightwingnut]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Another thing I don't like it getting asked "Papers Please." in the USA. If I am passenger or am walking around on the street I will not ever give them my ID just b/c if they are asking for it just b/c.

if a crime was committed in the area, then they can & will & should detain you & detain and/or arrest you. But I won't be hassled & asked for my papers like I in the USSR, unless of course I'm driving a motor vehicle.

Its not that I have a big problem w/ cops, even though three of them I have dealt with have been major assholes, & one of them kind of a douche. Actually, most of them have been reasonable if not down right generous.

Just how many have you had to deal with? The average person doesn't deal with officers very often. if you do, that should be a clue to you that something in your lifestyle is wrong.
Ever think that the three you had problems with were less than pleasant because of that big chip on your shoulder that I can see from here?
anyone who goes around posting " I wont do this" and "i wont do that" when dealing with officers has a chip.


Well, this is going back to when I was 16 years old. I am 28 now.

Never been arrested. No drama-ridden life style. No chip here, just want to make sure I am living up to my Anglo-American Constitutional patrimony by not having a disposition to authority that is too docile.

We don't do the world a favor by becoming a people willing to yield to arbitrary authority.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:58:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
As far as I know, you pretty much have to do what they tell you to do.

However, it is true that you don't have to consent to a search. As for questions, chances are good that you are legally required to identify yourself when asked.

Naturally, if you are reluctant to show your driver's license and you're pulled over, the cop is going to logically think he's got a guy who is driving on a suspended license or no license at all.

Questions like "where are you going ?" "why are you here ?" and "what are you doing on the road at this hour ?" should not have answers that are directly incriminating, therefore a reluctance to answer those questions is going to raise a lot of red flags.


All of which should be answered with either, "it's still a free country" or my prefered "none of your fucking business"

I like cops, but it really is none of their fucking business. If I'm speeding, give me a ticket. If I ran a stop sign, give me a ticket. If I'm drunk, haul me in. But unless they are specifically looking for a fat guy in a Jeep that is robbing houses...it's none of their fucking business what I'm doing there.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:58:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 2:59:03 AM EST by XDBACKUPGUN]

Originally Posted By rcoers:
This thread is going nowhere fast.


IBTL
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 2:59:32 AM EST
"You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

In court, the toughest lawyer wins. On the street, do what the cops tell you. Unless you like getting tased.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:02:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 3:04:39 AM EST by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Well, this is going back to when I was 16 years old. I am 28 now.

Never been arrested. No drama-ridden life style. No chip here, just want to make sure I am living up to my Anglo-American Constitutional patrimony by not having a disposition to authority that is too docile.

We don't do the world a favor by becoming a people willing to yield to arbitrary authority.


Which is nothing more than your fancy way of saying that you were a teen-aged jackass who gave the officers of your area no end of grief, and apparently you have maintained that mindset into your early adulthood. Arbitrary authority? What exactly do you define that as, as opposed to non-arbitrary authority?


Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
All of which should be answered with either, "it's still a free country" or my prefered "none of your fucking business"

I like cops, but it really is none of their fucking business. If I'm speeding, give me a ticket. If I ran a stop sign, give me a ticket. If I'm drunk, haul me in. But unless they are specifically looking for a fat guy in a Jeep that is robbing houses...it's none of their fucking business what I'm doing there.


Go ahead and be that way; the officer is looking for some reason that would explain why you violated the particular law you were stopped for. I've let plenty of people off when they gave me some reasonable answers to those very reasonable questions.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:04:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 3:05:13 AM EST by rightwingnut]

Originally Posted By webtaz99:
"You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

In court, the toughest lawyer wins. On the street, do what the cops tell you. Unless you like getting tased.


That kind of attitude, i believe, just emboldens the bad apples, the ones on power trips, the ones who like being arbitrary, & the the ones who are ignorant of limits of their powers & our rights, to continue being such.

If I get tased & arrested wrongfully/illegally, I am happy to be the one to sue the cop/dept for wrongful arrest etc. It is important that they know that they can't abuse their powers w/o consequence just as its important that we know we can't abuse our liberty & commit crimes against others.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:06:10 AM EST
Theres that arbitrary thing. What exactly do you think is arbitrary about this sort of thing?
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:08:59 AM EST
No, I wan't particularly troublesome as a youth. I was staightlaced to an excess really. Never even drank till I was out of high-school. Not bragging, b/c its really nothing to brag about or be ashamed of, just pointing out that I wasn't a juvenile delinquent.

And my attitude as a teenager was more to the effect of, "Golly sure officer."
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:12:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Theres that arbitrary thing. What exactly do you think is arbitrary about this sort of thing?


Police have defined powers. They have discretion to do less than the law permits them but not more.

They do have latitude in certain things that amounts to being arbitrary, such as how they interpret how a dog acts when being walked around your car or how they interpret a stain on your carpet.

& I am not saying that I would never tell a cop where I am going or whatever, I just am stating that I know that I can refuse to answer questions or make statements.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:13:29 AM EST
It is not the officers business where I'm going or what Im doing. It is not in the interest of freedom for me to stroke an officers ego by making him feel he's in control of my life at a traffic stop. He is in control of seeing my license and registration.I am in control of my personal liberties. It is un-American to blindly submit to a guy who's job it is to generate revenue for his Jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:21:01 AM EST
I don't consent to shit. The best advice I have ever been given in dealing with the police, is to SHUT UP! If they approached me, they know why they did, let them tell me why they want me to answer any questions. There really is no benefit to talking to a police officer that I can see.

Mind if I search your car? Yes, I do mind, I would rather not have my car searched by you or anyone. ---In KY refusal to search is not PC to search. If he had a viable reason to search my car he wouldn't be asking if he could.

Where are you headed tonight? That's not really your business, officer.

On the street walking, let me see your ID. My name is Vengarr, I don't want to give you my ID. In KY you aren't required to show ID to a LEO if on foot out and about. In a motor vehicle you are required to show a DL, proof of insurance and registration if they ask for it.

I will say I ALWAYS notify a LEO I am armed if I am, because I don't want to get shot if I get pulled out of the car because I resemble some wanted guy.



Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:24:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By vengarr:
I don't consent to shit. The best advice I have ever been given in dealing with the police, is to SHUT UP! If they approached me, they know why they did, let them tell me why they want me to answer any questions. There really is no benefit to talking to a police officer that I can see.


I just answer direct questions in a direct manner. Yes/no questions get a yes/no answer. There's no real reason to volunteer any information beyond what is being specifically asked for.

I've never been arrested, detained or even pulled over. All of my police encounters have ended with words along the lines of "OK, go home" or "Be careful/be safe".

I must be doing something right.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:28:16 AM EST
True, Mr LEO could be asking you all that stuff b/c he is looking for a suspect & he want's to see if anything you might say could be at all incriminating. Maybe you already fit the description of perp & he is already made up his mind to arrest you but he just wants you to spill you guts before you know if your in trouble.

Nothing you say can possibly help you, it can only hurt you.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:29:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By vengarr:
I don't consent to shit. The best advice I have ever been given in dealing with the police, is to SHUT UP! If they approached me, they know why they did, let them tell me why they want me to answer any questions. There really is no benefit to talking to a police officer that I can see.


I just answer direct questions in a direct manner. Yes/no questions get a yes/no answer. There's no real reason to volunteer any information beyond what is being specifically asked for.

I've never been arrested, detained or even pulled over. All of my police encounters have ended with words along the lines of "OK, go home" or "Be careful/be safe".

I must be doing something right.


If a public servant tells me to "Go home" he's going to be told what he can do in return. He has no business telling me what to do if 'm not being detained.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:31:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Powerkicker:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By vengarr:
I don't consent to shit. The best advice I have ever been given in dealing with the police, is to SHUT UP! If they approached me, they know why they did, let them tell me why they want me to answer any questions. There really is no benefit to talking to a police officer that I can see.


I just answer direct questions in a direct manner. Yes/no questions get a yes/no answer. There's no real reason to volunteer any information beyond what is being specifically asked for.

I've never been arrested, detained or even pulled over. All of my police encounters have ended with words along the lines of "OK, go home" or "Be careful/be safe".

I must be doing something right.


If a public servant tells me to "Go home" he's going to be told what he can do in return. He has no business telling me what to do if 'm not being detained.


I just wait for the LEO to leave, then I go about my business. Simple as that.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 3:42:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 3:54:03 AM EST by USP45Tim]

Originally Posted By Justice23:
Pennsylvania V. Mimms covers this

Yes you do have to step out.

And Maryland V. Wilson covers passengers.


Get out of my head!

I can get a bag of chips from the chips that some of you guys have on your shoulders. It's quite ridiculous. 90% of the time your mouth or attitude will write the ticket for you.

Oh and IBTL
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