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Posted: 4/7/2006 3:01:55 PM EDT
[#1]
friend of mine went to L.A.....they took his during a tstop and detained him (no cuffs). If it weren't for the fact he was carrying a dept owned gun, he probably would have never seen it again. His dept had to get involved, fax some info over, and formally request he be given his service weapon back. Big mess....moral of the story?
A. tell your supervisor where you are going (if you want) B. consider carrying someone else's gun (ie. dept). C. don't get pulled over |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 3:32:44 PM EDT
[#2]
and...
D. Don't say anything about having one. How would the officer know unless your friend told him? We are under NO law, rule, obligation, etc., to ever tell an officer we have a gun in the vehicle. And in most parts of the country, you need some kind of articulable suspicion to ask the driver if there is one in the vehicle. Fuck, I mean you practically can't even ask the passenger for an ID anymore?! That's my .02 worth. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 3:36:44 PM EDT
[#3]
And secondly,
-most guys don't give a shit if there's a gun in the car anyway; -others, apparently the assholes, will jam you up if you tell them... obviously; and, -it makes the new guys nervous. Just don't. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 5:38:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Of course at tourist landmarks and stuff like that you may have certain security screening things after 9/11. Security is tight at some locations and they will not allow firearms at certain landmarks. But that is the same all over. Try to get into the Capital building in D.C. with a gun. They don't care about HR218 or anything else. They don't care who you are you are not getting in with a gun. I would imagine that they same is probably true at the Statue of Liberty for example. Also places like that sometimes have their own security or LE that is not NYPD. For example the statue of liberty has park police and possible Port Authority Police. They are not NYPD. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 6:38:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I haven't met any out of state LEOs and I haven't heard of anyone that has had any encounters with out of state LEOs.
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Posted: 4/7/2006 6:46:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Oops, you mean I shouldn't carry a sidearm in Chicago? Darn... LOL
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Posted: 4/7/2006 8:06:11 PM EDT
[#7]
I wouldn't doubt that they would disarm and detain you. This could happen anywhere. Do you think any officer, anywhere is just going to take your word that you are a card carrying LEO? I'm sure a lot of idiots out there can be faking ID cards and badges. I'm in NE PA, and if I run into someone claiming to be a LEO from another state, depending upon the circumstances I may be having someone from his/her dept or other authorized person verify who they are. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 8:08:11 PM EDT
[#8]
My chief went to some of the museums in DC last year. Took the guy guarding the site aside, showed him is ID......went right in.
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Posted: 4/7/2006 8:09:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Not true. In Texas, a CHL holder is required to inform the LEO of their armed status as soon as possible during a stop. Edited to add: In the event that you're only referring to LEOs; Are you sure that's the case in every jurisdiction in the U.S.? |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 8:15:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Yes it has happened, I only know of this when declared at NYC airports, for checked baggage. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 10:45:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Haven't heard of any such thing here in Chicago and no I would not disarm any officer for having a weapon unless it was a situation where he/she was going to be arrested anyway,can you post your source?
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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:21:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Except out of state LEOs are not carrying on a Texas CHL. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:31:38 AM EDT
[#13]
I have heard rumors not to carry a weapon in Chicago because I heard those cops up there dont care who you are. I still would take my chances and carry it, its only my dept gun if they take it I'm sure there is very few cops up there like that it only takes one to give everyone a bad name. Just don't do anything that you wouldnt want done to you if you were the one running the traffic stop or contact.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:49:53 AM EDT
[#14]
The rumors you heard are nothing but  . CPD officers are just like any other brother officers across the nation, in fact, probably more so than you would believe. Funny that a fuckstick like Daley makes everyone believe the Chicago police officers think the way he does. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 4:45:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Pres. Bush signed a law HR218 that allows us to carry anywhere in the USA. Shouldn't be a prob. Just be courteous to your bros. and sisters. Golden Rule.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:00:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Heck. Here we invite them to the range.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:26:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Unfortunately, I tend to agree with you lane579. Just not worth the risk. I personally don't think I know of anyone I work with who would give a shit (prolly be glad, actually), but you make some good points in your posts. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:31:08 AM EDT
[#18]
[sound of nail being struck on head] +1 |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:32:33 AM EDT
[#19]
The May 2006 issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement has a small article on this issue. It even stated that Mayor Daly is forbidding retired Chicago officers from being able to get their ID cards to carry concealed.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:45:55 AM EDT
[#20]
What a complete fuckin douche bag. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 8:22:54 AM EDT
[#21]
It doesn't have to be Chicago or New York to have concealed gun troubles. Local story here a couple of years ago a Trooper from the State Patrol busted a cop from Iowa who was in Nebraska to instruct a use of force class. Hooked him and booked him for CCW. A-Holes are not only in the cities folks-use caution.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 8:34:50 AM EDT
[#22]
There has GOT to be more to that story........such as a roadside confrontation/pissing match that rapidly degrading into a stop mirroring the infamous Florida black "police Major" stop (the one where he got sprayed and then arrested). OR the NE Trooper, acting of his own volition and with no real justification, was either sternly rebuked by superiors (if not officially disciplined), or his co-workers have completely ostricized him for committing one of the most grievous acts a cop can do (short of anything criminal or corrupt, of course), and that is sticking it up your "brother officer's" ass. Since you state this happened a "couple of years ago", it was obviously prior to the adoption of HR218, and thus begs the question of whether or not NE has a "Peaceful Journey" clause for carrying and traveling......or reciprocity for LEOs carrying in that state. Either way, it's a bad situation, and I'm glad I'm not on either end of it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 9:20:51 AM EDT
[#23]
The rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say is that it was a standard traffic stop for a moving violation. Upon completion of the stop and issuing the paperwork the trooper asks him something along the lines of "I imagine since you're a police officer you've probably got a gun in there." When the guy says yeah and tells him where it is, said trooper removes him from the vehicle, seizes the handgun and hooks him up. That's the rest of the story. As far as allowing other LEO's to pass through the state , NE has no such provisions. In fact we just passed our own CCW law which takes effect in Jan 07. The only law on the books right now is that CCW is an affirmative defense meaning that a person has to be arrested AND charged and then prove in court that he had a justification to CCW. No person, LEO or otherwise has blanket permission to CCW in Nebraska.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 9:40:03 AM EDT
[#24]
You're wrong, there. Under HR218, LEO's explicitly DO have that right. And any Nebraska officer who arrests a LEO for carrying a gun will very likely find himself as well as his department the defendant in a federal civil rights lawsuit. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 9:45:06 AM EDT
[#25]
GUARAN-EFFIN-TEED, if any LEO of any state were to seize my $350 J Frame for any amount of time past a field interview, he'd be sorry. I'm speechless that there are LEO's not aware of the law. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:54:23 AM EDT
[#26]
If I’m asked for my OL, I’m required to ID myself, and advise if I am armed. If unarmed, I do not have to ID myself. The reasoning is if the LEO doing the traffic stop sees the weapon for some reason, we don't want to alarm the officer. Not law, policy.
Art in KY |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 11:00:40 AM EDT
[#27]
Haven't heard of anything so far but then again visiting LEO's are usually on their best behavior when traveling...wouldn't want to be the HR218 test case you know.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 11:17:54 AM EDT
[#28]
To hear others, it would seem that airline employees in communist areas (sorry, I have no other term from your beat) have kneejerk reactions to the firearms declaration and immediately summon the airport ROD's. Not so I guess? |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 11:36:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Depends, I have heard the stories about the Port Authority of NY/NJ cops(they patrol the major NY/NJ area airports) and their dealings with non-LEO's, however I haven't heard anything bad about dealing with LEO's carrying proper and verifiable Departmental Identification. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:33:52 PM EDT
[#30]
BULL!!!!!! Guess they can't read in Nebraska. HR218 means they CAN carry anywhere in the US. ANYWHERE......even in B.F.E. Nebraska. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:54:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Those kneejerk reactions are the exception rather than the norm. Getting a weapon through the NY Airports without getting the PAPD involved is dependent on the Airline's ticket/gate agent you are declaring the firearm with. If its a pistol, shotgun, or rifle, all your paperwork and/or LEO ID is in order and you don't give the ticket/gate agent any problems, act suspicious, etc then they will check the weapons in without ever getting the PAPD involved. If, however, you are declaring any weapon that is unfamiliar (read: scary assault type weapon) to certain ticket/gate agents, your paperwork is not in order or your LEO ID is questionable or unfamiliar to the agent, or you act suspicious, they will call the PAPD to verify all of your information.... |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:56:39 PM EDT
[#32]
My LEO ID looks so fake it is not even funny.
Cheap. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 2:25:59 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm on the job in NY just north of the city. I would never give a brother leo a problem for having his gun no matter what my dept.'s offical policy is! I woundn't even bother one of those nice Virginia state troopers who love to give us NY cops traffic tickets & a hard time.!!! Also, I know lots of guys on NYPD and I highly doubt they would give any off duty leo a hard time as long as they identified themselfs.
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Posted: 4/9/2006 5:38:28 PM EDT
[#34]
So, would it be outside of what is considered "best behavior" if my brother came down to the city and started pistol whipping local skels? He's got to all of them in CT and has to go out of state to find some. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 7:20:43 PM EDT
[#35]
That would be considered poaching and a complete breach of ettiquette and poor manners. Also known as a Dis. So the simple anwser is that would not be considered as "best behavior". Best behavior is to consider yourself a guest and obey the local customs and enjoy the sights and all that your host city has to offer. You are a representative of your family/city while you travel. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 8:51:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Check out the Ohio attorney generals opinion on officer concealed carry off duty ( Exposed in vehicle and must inform)
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Posted: 4/9/2006 8:54:41 PM EDT
[#37]
The Brady Center and the rest of the anti-gun fanatics hate HR218 with a passion. They are anxiously awaiting such a "test case" where a LEO gets arrested outside of his jurisdiction with a gun, preferably in a strongly anti-gun locale such as Chicago or District of Columbia, whereupon they will jump in with friend of the court briefs and all kinds of free legal advice for the prosecutors, desperately hoping that HR218 will be ruled unconstitutional by some leftist judge. I would call their legal arguments laughable, but, knowing some of the judges around this country, it would be foolish to underestimate them. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 10:53:03 PM EDT
[#38]
He can opine all he wants- federal law says I can conceal it. I'd do a week in an OH jail in exchange for several million dollars of OH taxpayer money. |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 9:26:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Jeeezus, give the troopers a frigging break.
They were responding to a shitload of complaints about that convoy and had to do something. It's unfortunate that things turned shitty after that....but who's fault was that really? Sure they have some dickheads, but all the VSP troopers I've been in contact with....and thats quite a few....have been good solid stand up people. I don't stroke other cops, but if I'm trying to get one to do the right thing and they start being a dick, I reciprocate. Would you blame me? When I travel out of state I bring a copy of HR218 with me as well as some supporting documentation so that I can avoid a misunderstanding. Even still, shit happens, so I try not to get stopped. Sad to say, not every cop knows the law.....
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Posted: 4/11/2006 4:20:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I'm not just talking about the convoy! Alot of us NY guys have traffic tickets issued to us ( not including me ) by the V.S.P. Don't get me wrong, if a off duty out of state guy is being disrespectful or runnig his mouth, write him. But if the guy is respectful, and tells you "I'm sorry" why write him? Here in NY 99.9% of us would never write anyone who is on the job no matter where he is from. We realize that we are all on the same team, and that one day it could be one of us fighting some guy on the side of the road when you drive by on vacation! We all have to watch out of each other because no one else will.
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Posted: 4/12/2006 8:50:13 AM EDT
[#41]
I have been stopped (cough!) a few times by VSP when I was running late for roll call and never got hassled. Some of them did warn me that I needed to be careful because there are some troopers who don't care and will stroke anyone. Every department is like that though....everyplace has it's share of robocops and I'm sure that there are a few up in NY too.
It sucks that a small minority can make so many people hate the whole dept.
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Posted: 4/12/2006 9:09:09 AM EDT
[#42]
I don't know about most of the other state's represented here (it sounds some people in TX, NE, OH might be doing different things) but even if there is something that requires you to disclose to the officer conducting the stop that you are armed, this still doesn't seem like it should provide blanket PC to conduct a search/seizure. Am I the only one that thinks this way? I guess if I ever go to Nebraska I won't say shit and hope I don't get removed from my vehicle and searched. And if in Ohio I'll "expose and inform", again hoping that this isn't PC to detain and search.
It would suck to come back home with a memo to the Chief: Dear Chief, Sorry but while on vacation I was arrested and charged for: CRIMINAL CODE VIOLATION: BEING AN OUT OF STATE COP Rant mode on: And if there are guys who have time for kind of bullshit, IM me and I'll provide a list that I like to call POLICE WORK. Rant mode off: No really, I can really find better things for them to do that will produce felony stats. hinking.gif |
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Posted: 4/12/2006 12:47:59 PM EDT
[#43]
We had a briefing item a few weeks ago about hr218. It's legal, end of story. It doesn't matter about AGs opinions, department policies, etc... It's legal.
BTW, before the new law I was visiting some friends in NYC. We were drinking in a bar and I met some local cops, who thought I was crazy for NOT carrying, even when not on official business. |
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Posted: 4/12/2006 3:58:45 PM EDT
[#44]
It's just common courtesy to disclose to your brothers and sisters. You don't like surprises do you? |
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Posted: 4/13/2006 7:43:55 AM EDT
[#45]
In the rare instances I get pulled over in a surrounding suburb, I show my badge and ID right off the bat along with my DL and insurance card. I think that lets the other LEO know that i'm a brother.
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Posted: 4/13/2006 7:55:23 AM EDT
[#46]
Alot of LEO's dislike having a badge pushed at them as soon as they walk up to the door. |
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Posted: 4/13/2006 9:03:04 AM EDT
[#47]
True. That's another reason why I keep my badge, ID and license together. They can't help but see it. I ask for no break and if I get stroked, so me it.....although I'd be pissed if I got the stroke AND a lecture. It's one or the other, not both.
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Posted: 4/13/2006 9:50:00 AM EDT
[#48]
I try not to push it in their face. When the LEO approaches, I usually have both hands on the steering wheel with the badge in one hand. This way the LEO can see both of my hands on approach as well as my badge. I do this so that the LEO doesn't have to approach my car and worry if i'm some shithead getting ready to blast him.
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Posted: 4/13/2006 10:34:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Gents, I've been a DC cop, a VA cop, and now in Maryland. In my personal experience, and those of my brother city coppers, I saw more "cop-on-cop" tickets wriiten in Virginia than anywhere else. I have been given courtesy in several jurisdictions over the years, but far and away, the coppers in Virgina will and do write other cops, cop's wives, etc. regularly. I will cite myself (I was on the job in VA at the time cited by a trooper), and three other friends. One guy from Alexandria, VA PD, and two other friends from Jersey riding through for bike week. I don't know why this is the case, but these cases are very real. I attended training in Jan. with a VSP LT. and he agreed that the "problem" does exist within VSP and told me that it is mainly the younger guys and gals with less than 6 years on the job. |
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