We should just give the signal to both Palestine and Israel that the "gloves can come off."  We bow out, let them slug it out and then deal with the winner.  I'm sick of those bastards holding the world hostage with their insanity.

I personally don't care who wins.  

Just so I don't have to pay for any of it.

Another solution

FORCED INTEGRATION

Just like certain "groups" forced on the United States 40 years ago.

Make the Palestininas and Israelis live in and amongst themselves in close proximity. Sure there will be tension, as in the United States 40 years ago.

And sure it will create NEW problems while solving OLD problems, as in the United States 40 years ago.

But it will be worth it to see them have they same problems.

In a generation or two you will have some JAP on the Jerry Moishevitz show and the topic will be "My Daughter is Sleeping with a Suicide Bomber." Her Rabbi father will be very upset.

Funny how those groups who advocate complete integration, and inter-marriage in the United States want to keep Israel "racially pure." Why?

I have been reading topics here on AR15.com for about a year and half. So let me say this is a topic I feel I should reply to. There are only three ways of getting people to do what you want: 1. FORCE 2. PAY THEM 3. VERBAL PERSUATION with or without 1 and 2.

I am completely sick and tired of the "Coin Operated Peace" America has been doing in Israel and every other meals on wheels program the U.N. sponsors. You guys and myself pay our taxes for this B.S. and I see no outrage for the waste of our money.

Peace or War should be paid by their pain and blood. Not the sweat off any of our brows.

A situation made worse by the fact that our own military desperately needs the Billions to rebuild.

I have never understood America's blind allegiance to Israel.  Likewise I'm sick and tired of sending them billions of dollars!

Steyr Why? Hypocrisy.......

Just like why are New York Jews Diet Coke Commies...but....Don't mind the total defense of Israel. (Whatever it takes.)

btt

I voted pro Palestine above.  Not because I have a love of Arabs or hate of Jews.  I just can't stand that my very hard earned tax money goes to Israel each year.  The only reason we send them money is because most politicians are afraid to say no to the very rich and powerful pro Israel lobby in the US.  A piss poor reason.  The moral high ground is to take the side of the oppressed Palestines.  They have been treated like crap ever since 1948.  No real American would stand for one minute to be treated the way the Palestines have been treated.  No real American has ever been as brutal to our foe as the Israel government has been to the Arabs.

I cannot believe that so many of my AR15.com friends would want to support the bad guys.

I would settle for cutting off all aid to all the middle East countries and let them fight it out.  If anyone in the US wants to send money to Israel then that's OK.  Just don't sent police armed with full auto weapons and high capacity magazines to my house to force me to pay.

Ya know it makes me sick when people cannot remember their history very well. It is individuals that have been brainwashed like Flash 66 that come off and try to say that the poor oh little palestinian's are being oppressed.[puke]

BA HUMBUG!!!!!!!!!

It has been the Isralie's that have been oppressed since the day after Israel became a state of its own. The Israel's hold claim to the land for thousands of years going back to Gods promise to Abraham. Yea the bible has alot of history in it to. So get off of the band wagon of liberal mind thinking, pull your head out of your behind and put your head into some history books before you make yourself look like an even more fool then you are!

Besides it is a biblical promise for those nations who support Israel will be blessed. Do you think this great nation of America is blessed by our own hands, or do you think that this great nation has been blessed by the hand of God? Pick you side. For a man to say he is better then god is surely a fool indeed. I say send over American troops wipe out the palestinian's and any other Islamic, or middle eastern country in the region that has a problem with it. It sure is funny how all of the countries in the world can mock the United States and make us out to be the evil ones, but when they need money,food,aid, military resources,business,political intervention, who do all these mocking countries call upon? You guessed it The United States Of America. God Bless America.

let them kill each other, or nuke the whole area Palestinians and Israelis all at once. Two birds with one bolder.

MinuteMan3

So I am a liberal for being anti Israel?  Last night I had a similar post and was accused of being a Nazi.  You Israel supporters need to get your accusations straight.  You are showing me (and others) that you don't have any real convictions.  Also, according to your post it looks like I'm also going to Hell because I have displeased God by not supporting Israel.  I'm glad you shared that with me.  I have always been under the opinion that faith and the Grace will keep me out of Hell.  I must go back and re-read the Bible and change my stupid redneck ways.

Ok, which one of you has the land deed?  Take it to the county office and . . . oh, doesn't exist??  What's this, "adverse possession" for over 2000 years???  SO sorry.  Fuck off!

To Flash 66

First off I never refered to you as going to hell, but if the shoe fits, well I suppose you can wear it. But if you want to get serious, as far as your salvation is concerned then if you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior then No you wont be going to hell, But if you have never asked Jesus into your life, confessed your sins,asked jesus to be your lord and savior,and have become a born again christian then I suppose you will burn in all eternity: biblical reference is John 3, read the whole chapter.

Second If you are a liberal then you are, only you can know that for sure. All I was saying is that you should go back and catch up on some history before you make yourself look like a brainwashed fool, If you proclaim to be a christian then you really should be standing up for gods people, that would be the jews by the way and not the palistinians.

There will always be conflict in the middle east region, even if there is a so called peace agreement that peace will only last for a short time. People are to concerned about trying to make the Israelis be the bad guys who are picking on the poor ol weak little palistinians.[puke]     The Israelis and Arabs in the region will always fight and have a love to hate relationship, so if anybody wants to decieve themselves in that peace will ever happen for a long period of time is nuts.

The only reason why this nation of ours has been blessed is because Gods hand has been on this nation. The United States of America is the only nation in the world that has what we have, and no other nation is like ours.

Oh and by the way the only one that is showing that they have no real convictions is you flash 66. You would rather believe the media, and what our liberal talking heads in the colleges, and public schools will feed you, or some religion based upon deciet, instead of haveing the conviction and intelligence to do some history brush up and realize that the palistinians are terrorist, and have no claim to land in Israel. But for you to actually do the research it would mean that you would have to be interupted from your cooshy life and actually have to put forth some effort and do alot of reading and be open minded to see the other side of the issue and that would be the truth by the way, The Israelis side.

So were is you conviction know. you are probably some Islamic nut, or you are one brainwashed individual, which one I have no idea. Only you know.

So flame on, or get off you toosh and do the research, oh you might actually have to go to a library and crack open a few books to do this though. So do you accept the challenge of doing the history research, or are you going to just be closed minded and show what a fool you really are and continue to write dialog of a confontaional sort? Your choice.

Pro-Israel, but anti-sending them my money. Israel seems to be in the right to stop the suicide bombings, but I don't support the unconstitutional policy of sending them tax money.

There are many possible outcomes of this conflict.
ALL of which DIRECTLY affect the USA.
Some are good for us, and some are bad.
Should we not try to influence the situation, so that the outcome is to our benefit?

If we let others control the outcome, WE will have to deal with it later.

BTT

Pro Israel, and yes they need our support.

For those who are are anti Israel or anti support of its existence, I like to say this:

You don't belong on this board. We need to support our friends and brothers in this world who share our views and beliefs as we...Just like we are supporting each other here on the second amendment issues, and the right to bear arms. If we don't, what do we have left?

Just like you are saying that you are a guns owner but you don't support AR15.com, its members or the NRA.

Israel need our support to fight for freedom, liberty and Democracy.....same as we. And I do not want to give up my Freedom and Liberty for oil either. They can take their oil and shove it!

We can't let them terrorists win this battle, either you are with us or with the terrorists.

They need to fight a while longer because they are not yet ready to make peace...

I wont vote here because I am not pro "some country".  I am pro democracy.  That is why we support Israel.  They are an elected gov't.  They share our values.  

Now saying that I believe the gloves should come off and they should clean house.  

Also I'm no history expert or religious expert but if I am not mistaken the Jews were enslaved, cast out, and generally treated badly according to the bible and historical writings, not to mention Hitler tried to exterminate them.  Seems that the Palistinians just want to wage war.  While I'm on I think that Arafat does not want peace because it will mean that he has no purpose if it comes to that.  He is a career terrorist and it is these acts that brought him to the forfront of this issue.  Those in power will do whatever it takes to stay there.  The truth is that everyone knows he is a terrorist and if it were not for the worlds supply of oil being controlled by pro Palestinian countries this "uprising" of the last 40 years would not even make the subtext of the worlds' newspapers.  

We all know, including this administration that the rich Muslim oil emirates are bankrolling these fuckers.  The Saudi's, Jordanians, Kuwaiti's, etc. are duplicidous bastards and if it were not for Henry Ford and his Model T they would still be living as nomadic shit eaters, drinking camel piss to stay hydrated.  You want to make them listen up?  Shut down every oil consuming device in the country for 3 days.  Hell make it an even week.  Watch what happens. If I was the president I would announce that ......"due to the current middle east crisis, an energy generating device that was held top secret for decades will be made availible to american industry. This device is so efficient, cheap, and  capable of producing enough power that it can replace all fossil fuel generation stations completely within 2 years.  Within 5 years it will replace the internal combution engine completely."  Then announce that once the United States is completely weened from oil we will release this technology to our allies and then the rest of the world.  Watch them shit lead bricks for a while.  Maybe drive down oil prices too!

Amo 1:7
but I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, and it shall devour the palaces thereof.

No real American blows themself up along with people shopping at a grocery store or those at the local cafe.  The israelis have been more than willing to make attempts at peace (look at how much land they've given back) but the palestinians and all Arabs HAVE REPEATEDLY STATED that they will not stop until israel is completely destroyed.  Do you not understand that?  The poor, oppressed palestinians are the same folks who were celebrating in the streets after 9/11 and burning our flag.  They are not rational.  They do not compromise.  They will not stop until Israel is destroyed (and when that happens they will start fighting amongst themselves again).

Without naming names.... some of you guys are coming off NEW WORLD ORDER. With some of your talk of supporting Israel. Some of you guys might want to go re-register with a different political party...

Zonan

You make an excellent point.  Why support the Arabs if it means the destruction of Israel?  My answer to that is that maybe Israel should not exist.  It is nowadays basically a country of European immigrants in the mist of an Arab stronghold.  The reason there is so much conflict is that the Arabs think it is an unreasonable situation.

I really do not care one way or the other if Israel exist or not like I don't care if 75% of the countries in the world exist or not.  The problem I have is that my taxes are being used to support Israel.  All I really ask for is that my hard earned money not go over there.

You are also right about the Arabs being unreasonable and would fight among themselves if they didn't have Israel.

As far as the moral question I would ask you to put yourself in the place of a Palestinian who grew up in an Israel "re-settlement" camp.  If that happen to me I would be really pissed.  Of course being a Southerner I know what it is to be oppressed by a government.  Maybe thats why I can see the other side of this issue.

Pardon me if I don't give a flying f--- what the Arabs find unreasonable.  They don't have a very good track record when it comes to being reasonable.  

I strongly doubt we will be waiting a long time before there are suicide bombings here in the U.S., and I'm pretty sure they will occur whether or not we support Israel.  

I voted pro Israel because I don't support the type of people that crash jets into American cities to kill innocent people.  

Does anyone have a link to where OUR money does go. I think a lot of the people who piss and moan about the money going to Israel will be surprised. Ireland?

This is one [url=http://www.usaid.gov/pubs/bj2001/]link [/url]I found. See where some of your money is going...

And this [url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquerytr/z?d106:HR03422:@@@L&summ2=m&]one.[/url]

sst223

Lets not forget that the Israelis sank an American naval vessel and killed some of our brave sailors who were only doing their duty. It was no accident.  In my book it put those assholes in the same asshole league as the Arabs.  

Does this mean all the Israelis you are supporting are going to go to hell?

What a shitty way for god to treat his "chosen people."

Flash there is no argument that Israel attacked the Liberty.  The ship was interfering with their war (in Israel's opinion) and they hit it.  Not good from our point of view.  Difference is they did not and have not made a habit of attacking US assets.  They apologized through proper channels for their misdeed.  I am not happy about it but in war mistakes are made, friendly fire happens.

I have yet to hear the rag heads apologize for 9/11.  They have made a habit of attacking US interests around the world for many years.  They remain our enemy and continue to vow to kill us all.  Seems a lot different to me!

There will be peace when one side utterly defeats the other.  I favor Israel doing that to the Palestinians and the US doing it to as much of the moslem world as are stupid enough not to give their unconditional surrender!

MickeyMouse

Good point but could Israel have apologized because they didn't want to put the billions we give them in jeopardy?

You are also right in that you can't compare the crimes of Israel with the crime of 9/11.  However, let us not let the dislike of the Muslim world cause us to support a country like Israel.

while i don't believe that we should be supporting countries that are hostile (at least on occasion) to us, we should share with those who are less fortunate...and before you rip me up, no, i'm not a liberal, not even close!  Less fortunate being, for example, a third world country that has suffered its fourth consecutive drought year or something along that line or a developing democracy that needs help bolstering its new still-fragile form of government.  and i don't think that one red cent should go anywhere that corruption abounds...

Reply to zak:

Well just to let you know that it is not gods fault if anybody whether it be a jewish person, or someone of any ethnic makeup does not choose jesus as there personal savior. It will be that individuals fault for the choice that they made.

God has given each individual the freedom to choose Gods plan for salvation, or mans plan for salvation. The reason why you see so many so called religions in todays world is because all religions are mans way to try to have a relationship with god.Being a christian is not a religion it is a relationship with god. God developed a plan for people to have fellowship with him, and that was he sent his son jesus crist to this world to die for all people. Know if people decide to not accept gods plan, then they will burn in hell for eternity. So whether it is a jewish person or not does not matter, it is whether you have accepted christ as your personal savior.

There are historical facts in which why there are sects of jewish people today who practice many of the old testoment way of life. You see back when Pontius Pilate was the ruler, the jewish people of the time were looking for a king who was going to rise up and overthrow the roman empire. So when jesus came onto the scene many people did not believe that jesus was the king because he was not the type of leader that they were looking for.The people of the time were looking for a leader that would do battle in the physical realm, instead of the spiritual realm. Jesus preached about spiritual matters and a kingdom which exitsts in the spiritual realm, people of that time were looking for a king to rise up and oust the romans out of business. See the contrast. There are many jewish people who have accepted jesus as there personal savior, then there are those who have not. I have met and spoken to many jewish people that believe both, one believes that jesus is who he said he is which is the king of kings, lord or lords, son of god. and many jewish people who believe that jesus was a fraud and they are still looking for a leader to rise up and be there savior.

So in gods eyes he wants everyone to be with him in heaven, but it is our own personal choice whether we accept gods terms, or try to make it to heaven on our own terms which by the way will never work. You can never try to figure out god, god is god and that is the way it is. You either serve him or you serve your own selfish needs. It is pretty simple, but human nature is to try to make things complex, and then emotion always gets involved.Salvation is very simple though and that is why so many people will probably end up in hell is because gods plan is so simple you have to trust god with all of your heart, To many people look for the complex way of things happening, or the feel good way of things happening, or the so called enlightened path garbage. The truth is god made it so simple for people to have fellowship with him, it is just whether you accept the simpleness of it or not. Jesus is the truth and the light, no one has fellowship with the God unless they have a relationship with jesus. That is gods plan, not anybody elses, narrow as that is, narrow is the way god made it. It is either gods way, or the highway so to speak. You choose, dont make the choice lightly because eternity is a pretty big gamble to take.

Sounds to me like you're clinging onto some desperate shit here.  Please simultaneously prove to me that it was not an accident, and that you are not ignorant.  If you prove one, you've proved the other.

BTW, in following your logic, supporting pieces of shit like the Palestinians puts you "in the same asshole league" as the pieces of shit that wiped out the lives of thousands of innocent American civilians.  

sst223

I've never been able to prove than I'm not ignorant.  Hell, I'm a graduate of Haines City (Fla)High School and the University of Central Florida.  Two institutions of higher learning not exactly know for producing world famous scholars.  

As far as proving that the ship was sunk intentionally there has been much information about it on this site.  Just go back about a month and you will see quite a discussion.  If that doesn't convince you then the Discovery channel has a very nice hour presentation taken from the crewmen side. There is much information out if you are not close minded (and I'm not implying you are)enough to look at the facts.

I was also working for the National Security Agency when the ship was sunk.  I was on duty when the messages came in.  I read the Flash communications real time.  I am convinced it was intentional.

This is the last post I'm going to make on the subject.  If you want to believe that the Israelis are the good guys then go ahead.  If you feel comfortable that your tax money is being spent morally and wisely then so be it.  This is still a free country and ignorant rednecks like me will never be able change anyone's mind.  I just appreciate the opportunity to express my views every once in a while.

Not surprised at all. Fits right in with the SOP of the government.
ALL foreign aid should be ended. The primary reason is that it is unconstitutional. Any other arguments are secondary.