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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/20/2005 10:16:51 AM EDT
www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/20/bc.autos.summit.ford.hybrids.reut/index.html




Take some fucking responsibilty for your ineptitude,
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:19:15 AM EDT
lol that is funny. American inguinity must be an all time low.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:31:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:33:19 AM EDT
Give them a break guys its hard pushing out those big pieces of shit every year.

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:34:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
lol that is funny. American inguinity must be an all time low.



Only the unionized variety.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:35:14 AM EDT
The following comments are by no means to be construed as racist by any means.

Without reading the article, which I will, allow me to offer some insight.

The major automakers are based in Detroit, MI. The unions have gotten fat dumb and happy from the contributions of its members and corrupt politicians. A city whose population has been decimated by poverty, is for all intents and purposes a failed Liberal experiment. All that remains are slums and ghettos where proud, hard working Americans once lived and worked.

Unions and liberal governments have destroyed the will of the people to work hard, to excel, to prosper and to compete. For generations workers have been told not to worry about saving money. Don't worry about quality and pride in your work, don't worry about doing your best. They Union (or the Gov't) will take care of you.

If sales are down, if the economy slumps, no need to worry, you will be safe and secure. Keep doing what you are doing, it is not your fault. There is no right or wrong. There are no societal norms or values to uphold. What we have now is generationalized welfare mentality both in the population of Detroit (and other places as well) and within the unionized workforce. They honestly believe that it isn't their fault, that Japan is the problem. There is no personal responsibility for anything.

Pride, quality and hard work do count for something. They matter a great deal to hard working americans. The American worker works hard for his dollars and cannot afford to contimue to purchase an inferior product simply because it is made in America. In fact, the term "Made in America" no longer means what it once did. It used to symbolize the best that could be made, the gold standard.

Perhaps if the Automakers, the Unions and the Gov't insisted on quality, accountability and performance, Detroit wouldn't be in the trouble that it is in.

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:38:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
Perhaps if the Automakers, the Unions and the Gov't insisted on quality, accountability and performance, Detroit wouldn't be in the trouble that it is in.

My Jap car made by factories in the South runs just fine! We don't need Detroit to keep us motoring.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:46:21 AM EDT
another example of the short term mind set biting them in the ass. all those years they squeezed the suppliers for every bit of profit and concession has left them with no one in country capable of meeting their needs. and now they really cant afford to pay top dollar to the overseas suppliers.

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:46:49 AM EDT
Our engineers cater to the buyer. Most Americans want a nice ride with cool features. Most Americans dont care if the thing only lasts 80k of 6 years. American engineers design features and looks first, reliabilioty and durability are not factors to most of the American buying public. As long as folks continue their blind allegiance to those engineers shallow designs they will keep making it.

The onnly people t blame for the failure of the domestic auto industry iof the sheep who keep buying their poorly designed crap over and over. It doesnt have to be like this. More folks can show they want quality first and nice stereos and design second. You really cannot blame the manufacturers, they are just building what people want and the sheep obviusly want crap. The domestics could engineer somethign decent if they needed to, rightnow they dont need to.

All you anti import pro domestic folks have only yourselves to blame. I wish our guys would design good stuff, the reason they dont is becuase you guys encourage them to build junk. Shame really.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:48:26 AM EDT
OMG TOYOTA AND HONDA HATE AMERICA!

/CavVet
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:50:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghostchild:
Give them a break guys its hard pushing out those big pieces of shit every year.






Driven by Union entitlements and Corporate greed
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/20/bc.autos.summit.ford.hybrids.reut/index.html




Take some fucking responsibilty for your ineptitude,



Folks, I hate to tell you this, but car "makers" are really just car assemblers, as massive numbers of their parts are made for them by subcontractors.

If the subcontractors are producing at capacity and makers like Toyota and Honda are leveraging all of their production, then Ford really CAN'T produce more hybrid vehicles without building their own component manufacturing capability, which would be a giant money looser for them when you consider the R&D, patents, environmental and regulatory concerns involved in producing such parts themselves.


Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:51:23 AM EDT
Hybrids don't make money for the manufacturer (as per the article) and they cost more for the consumer, even when the reduced fuel costs are taken into account.

So Detroit should be making more of them? Huh?
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:51:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 10:53:22 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
.... reliabilioty and durability are not factors to most of the American buying public.



I'd venture that North American Accord and Camry sales would dispute this point. To many blindly loyal "domestic" buyers these are not a factor. To those who like to get value for their money they are paramount.

The rest of your post indicates that you know this.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:52:40 AM EDT
["We are working with multiple suppliers and alternatives," Padilla said. "We recognize that the ramp-up phase is very critical for suppliers and for ourselves to get economies of scale."

/quote]


I think that means that they need to make a profit or they just won't sell them.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:53:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
.... reliabilioty and durability are not factors to most of the American buying public.



I'd venture that Accord and Camry sales would dispute this point.



What I meant is that if the domestic engineers payed attention to that, they would change their ways. Instead they cater to the repeat buyers of junk.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:54:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
All you anti import pro domestic folks have only yourselves to blame.



My American cars run just fine, thank you, and have been plenty reliable.



I wish our guys would design good stuff, the reason they dont is becuase you guys encourage them to build junk. Shame really.



I have seen just as many Hondas with problems as I have Chryslers or GMCs or Fords. I sold parts for all of them.

Foreign brands are not really foreign as many are produced here in the US. Domestic brands aren't really domestic as they subcontract part production all over the world.

Look at the car buisness these days folks. Study it. Examine it. A lot of the car stuff spewed on this website is just plain wrong.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:54:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/20/bc.autos.summit.ford.hybrids.reut/index.html




Take some fucking responsibilty for your ineptitude,



Folks, I hate to tell you this, but car "makers" are really just car assemblers, as massive numbers of their parts are made for them by subcontractors.

If the subcontractors are producing at capacity and makers like Toyota and Honda are leveraging all of their production, then Ford really CAN'T produce more hybrid vehicles without building their own component manufacturing capability, which would be a giant money looser for them when you consider the R&D, patents, environmental and regulatory concerns involved in producing such parts themselves.





I don't think anyone is disputing any of what you said. But this Ford exec is essentially saying that it is not Ford'd fault that they can't get the parts. This is utter BS. If Ford had been as forward thinking as Honda and Toyota they could have secured the parts contracts that were needed. It is their OWN DAMN FAULT that they don't have the parts.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:55:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 10:57:21 AM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
Ford: "We can't make more hybrids because Toyota is hogging all the specialized parts we need! . . . because we leased our Hybrid design from Toyota because we had nothing on the board ourselves and now they won't make nice and give us more parts when they're running a little short on parts themselves."

Toyota should be gladly willing to suffer to help prop up their competitor, Ford!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:56:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nefariousnick:
["We are working with multiple suppliers and alternatives," Padilla said. "We recognize that the ramp-up phase is very critical for suppliers and for ourselves to get economies of scale."

/quote]


I think that means that they need to make a profit or they just won't sell them.



Indeed.

Toyota, Honda and the like have a larger share of foreign markets where hybrid tech is popular and CHEAPER, thus they have more established suppliers. The big three are coming later to the game.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:57:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Ford: "We can't make more hybrids because Toyota is hogging all the specialized parts we need![/size=3] . . . because we leased our Hybrid design from Toyota because we had nothing on the board ourselves and now they won't make nice and give us more parts when they're running a little short on parts themselves."

Toyota should be gladly willing to suffer to help prop up their competitor, Ford!



Car makers license designs from each other all the time. It is nothing new. Every maker has done it. Every maker will do it again.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:58:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Luxan:
lol that is funny. American inguinity must be an all time low.



Only the unionized variety.



While I agree somewhat, there are also patent issues that may be at play. If the design of the Hybrid is under patent then you can't just design your own. You have to license the design and if the other companies choose not to do that then you are SOL. You can't build a design even similar to it. That said... they won, we lost. They developed it, they get the spoils. FORD and the others now get to beg for scraps.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:58:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
I don't think anyone is disputing any of what you said. But this Ford exec is essentially saying that it is not Ford'd fault that they can't get the parts. This is utter BS. If Ford had been as forward thinking as Honda and Toyota they could have secured the parts contracts that were needed. It is their OWN DAMN FAULT that they don't have the parts.



Not really.

The buisness is a lot more complicated than some of you folks realize.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:00:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Ford: "We can't make more hybrids because Toyota is hogging all the specialized parts we need![/size=3] . . . because we leased our Hybrid design from Toyota because we had nothing on the board ourselves and now they won't make nice and give us more parts when they're running a little short on parts themselves."

Toyota should be gladly willing to suffer to help prop up their competitor, Ford!



Car makers license designs from each other all the time. It is nothing new. Every maker has done it. Every maker will do it again.



So if it's nothing new, why is Ford complaining now? They should have known what to expect by this point. If demand for a licensed design outpaces supply, do you think the licensing company is going to short themselves for the sake of the licensee? Ford knew the risks.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:01:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Our engineers cater to the buyer. Most Americans want a nice ride with cool features. Most Americans dont care if the thing only lasts 80k of 6 years. American engineers design features and looks first, reliabilioty and durability are not factors to most of the American buying public. As long as folks continue their blind allegiance to those engineers shallow designs they will keep making it.

The onnly people t blame for the failure of the domestic auto industry iof the sheep who keep buying their poorly designed crap over and over. It doesnt have to be like this. More folks can show they want quality first and nice stereos and design second. You really cannot blame the manufacturers, they are just building what people want and the sheep obviusly want crap. The domestics could engineer somethign decent if they needed to, rightnow they dont need to.

All you anti import pro domestic folks have only yourselves to blame. I wish our guys would design good stuff, the reason they dont is becuase you guys encourage them to build junk. Shame really.



If that were true, regarding quality, then Toyota and the rest of the Japanese companies wouldn't be cleaning up right now and taking so much marketshare. I switched from Ford to Toyota this year and will probably never go back. "Quality is job 1" is all lip service not unlike FEMA. America has great engineers, something tells me the companies they work for and the unions are to blame for quality.

The shame of it all is the American auto manufacturers have lost the ability to innovate. Corporate greed, union greed, and the blind entitlement attitue of the average worker are what is killing the economy in general
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:03:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
I don't think anyone is disputing any of what you said. But this Ford exec is essentially saying that it is not Ford'd fault that they can't get the parts. This is utter BS. If Ford had been as forward thinking as Honda and Toyota they could have secured the parts contracts that were needed. It is their OWN DAMN FAULT that they don't have the parts.



Not really.

The buisness is a lot more complicated than some of you folks realize.



Of course it is complicated. But are you saying that years ago, back when Honda and Toyota were doing it, that Ford could not have developed their own hybrid design, and developed the necessary relationships with suppliers to build it? Of course they COULD have, but they didn't so they lost. Now they are trying to blame Honda and Toyota for "hogging" the parts.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:41:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Hybrids don't make money for the manufacturer (as per the article) and they cost more for the consumer, even when the reduced fuel costs are taken into account.

So Detroit should be making more of them? Huh?


Absolutely. Just because the cost of producing a hybrid vehicle is higher than the price now doesn't mean it will be that way in the future. As automobile manufacturers move farther along the experience curve, costs will come down for the company and prices will come down for the end consumer. Also, even though R&D is almost always a short term money losing proposition, it actually adds market capitalization to the company's stock price by signalling its willingness to invest in the future.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:46:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Ford: "We can't make more hybrids because Toyota is hogging all the specialized parts we need![/size=3] . . . because we leased our Hybrid design from Toyota because we had nothing on the board ourselves and now they won't make nice and give us more parts when they're running a little short on parts themselves."

Toyota should be gladly willing to suffer to help prop up their competitor, Ford!



Car makers license designs from each other all the time. It is nothing new. Every maker has done it. Every maker will do it again.



Tru.
Toyota is currently keeping GM afloat with some of their plants and assembly lines. GM is using a Toyota design (Pontiac Vibe) they used the same design and plant from the Corolla to build the Prism.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:48:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 11:53:58 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
All you anti import pro domestic folks have only yourselves to blame.



My American cars run just fine, thank you, and have been plenty reliable.



I wish our guys would design good stuff, the reason they dont is becuase you guys encourage them to build junk. Shame really.



I have seen just as many Hondas with problems as I have Chryslers or GMCs or Fords. I sold parts for all of them.

Foreign brands are not really foreign as many are produced here in the US. Domestic brands aren't really domestic as they subcontract part production all over the world.

Look at the car buisness these days folks. Study it. Examine it. A lot of the car stuff spewed on this website is just plain wrong.


My American vehicles run good too becauserI take extra care with them. Well I do that with my others as well. Its just that the imports I owned last longer and are more trouble free. My domestics start to fall apart after a while. Headliners, buttons, interior finish etc. Underhood problems though may be minor, they are more numerous.

If the domestics were as good as people thought they were, you wouldnt see Toyota and Honda and other imports that often cost more than the domestics. I wish our guys would design something good, unfortunately there is still a market for features over durability.

I wont touch a "domestic" again until they can prove that their designs are as reliable and touble free as their competition. When I am spending in the tens of thousands, I will be picking the best product available.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:49:25 AM EDT
It's all Bush-san's fault.
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