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Posted: 8/20/2005 10:43:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Dont you remember you sold them all to me hint, hint
 FREE |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 10:49:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Damn boating accidents
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:06:56 AM EDT
[#3]
And if you are in dire enough straits to be filing bankruptcy, you damned well SHOULD be cashing out some of your collection. On top of that, if it is valuable / unique enough to be concerned about, you ought to be able to use it as collateral for a loan. Can't have it both ways. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:10:12 AM EDT
[#4]
.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:19:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Dump them on a friend for awhile, get a bill of sale, make it look like a reasonable amount. If the court asks where the money is just say it got spent on other sulty debts and for entertainment (if your friend will have the slip backdated severall months if not a year, just make sure it is not beofre you bought any of the guns)
this is of course illegal if you get caught, but it might keep your guns for you |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:21:47 AM EDT
[#6]
What I'm saying is my assets consist of things barely worth the trouble. Hell I couldn't even sell what I've got to make any serious lump sum. Maybe enough to repair a vehicle part way or buy necessities for a few months. I mean common, what I've got left is a few handguns and a .22 rifle. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Man up, sell everything you own (including your guns), and pay what you owe.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 11:55:55 AM EDT
[#8]
In some states they can demand that the items purchased(tv,stereo,guns,ect.) on the credit card be returned for auction. You then owe the difference. Every state is different.. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:01:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Hey, as long as you get to hide behind the law and duck out on your debts, why should you be concerned about selling assets to pay off those debts? |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#10]
What you are proposing is bankrupcy fraud.
Your call. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:14:39 PM EDT
[#11]
The sarcasm isn't needed. I felt how you do about peoples debts till I found myself in this position. My wife and I stayed above water with my [fulltime] income and what she partially brought in while we both went to school. This source of debt payed for both luxuries AND things we needed. After she graduated and got a job I was going to pay off the debt, however now she's jumped ship I'm left with no real way to make a dent in it and live at the same time. Believe me I would prefer to pay it off but I'm exploring my options with bankruptcy before commiting to it. If you cant give constructive feedback......well, just be yourself. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:15:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm not frauding. I'll give 'em the damn guns if they want them. Selling or hiding them was a meager joke. I just want to know if anyones had this experience and if I'd be faced with giving them up. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:46:13 PM EDT
[#13]
You are required to declare them (and all assets) during a bankruptcy. Failing to actively declare them is bankruptcy fraud. Selling them or transferring them to avoid their seizure by the bankruptcy court is a fraudulent transfer and could be bankruptcy fraud. 18 U.S.C. 152 Concealment of assets; false oaths and claims; bribery A person who— (1) knowingly and fraudulently conceals from a custodian, trustee, marshal, or other officer of the court charged with the control or custody of property, or, in connection with a case under title 11, from creditors or the United States Trustee, any property belonging to the estate of a debtor; (2) knowingly and fraudulently makes a false oath or account in or in relation to any case under title 11; (3) knowingly and fraudulently makes a false declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, in or in relation to any case under title 11; [...] (8) after the filing of a case under title 11 or in contemplation thereof, knowingly and fraudulently conceals, destroys, mutilates, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any recorded information (including books, documents, records, and papers) relating to the property or financial affairs of a debtor; or (9) after the filing of a case under title 11, knowingly and fraudulently withholds from a custodian, trustee, marshal, or other officer of the court or a United States Trustee entitled to its possession, any recorded information (including books, documents, records, and papers) relating to the property or financial affairs of a debtor, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. Trust me on this. Austrian, Esq. Edited to add: If they are worth anything you can pretty much count on the court being interested. Guns are historically very liquid assets. I doubt the court will do much investigation other than to say "Guns? Sure. Get those." |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:56:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks for the feedback Austrian.
I've also found this on a lawyers website, per Wa. law:
I'll see how this plays out |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:59:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Brother, did you see my previous post about a buddy who was convicted of a felony? Listen, Don't lie on bankrupcty papers. This complete bullshit about a tragic boating accident will get you in trouble. once a federal felon, you can NEVER own firearms again unless you get a pardon. be honest.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 12:59:56 PM EDT
[#16]
have you considered a seperate lawsuit for her share of the debt? Sue her. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:00:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Okay, just put them in a box and send them to me.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:01:09 PM EDT
[#18]
I dont plan to lie about what I have. I was joking about boating with my guns. It's an old ARFcom joke and I used it inappropriately. I'm just trying to get a clear picture of what I'll be facing if I go this rout. Thanks for the heads up though. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Find Washington Exemptions here: www.bankruptcyinformation.com/WA_exemp.htm Find Federal Exemptions here: www.bankruptcyinformation.com/exemp-fed.htm |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:03:11 PM EDT
[#20]
I didn't intend to accuse you, only to warn you that it's no laughing matter. People sometimes take it less seriously than it is. Bankruptcy pisses off creditors. They get cranky. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:04:22 PM EDT
[#21]
+1 If you are going to file banruptcy and let the tax dollar bail you out, at least do us the favor of paying as much of the bill as you can. Keep one weapon for protection (you are certainly entitled to that in my opinion)....but liquidate everything else you own and pay as much as you can before dumping you debt on Mr & Mrs America. You can always buy new guns later when times get better. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:05:14 PM EDT
[#22]
It's not worth the trouble. She left quite a few things for me and didn't dispute much, so thats enough to cover what I feel she owes me. She isn't co-named on the debt and I dont want to persue it into a legal battle. Besides, she moved overseas. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:06:04 PM EDT
[#23]
just remember to maybe speak up for the little guy next time. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:07:04 PM EDT
[#24]
the US attorney may turn it over to the justice department for prosecution. The FBI investigages bankruptcy fraud. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:07:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Believe me, this changes my perception of other peoples problems. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:08:18 PM EDT
[#26]
When I was looking at chapter 7, the lawyer told me the AZ court would allow you to keep one gun as your personal property. I had a collection of something like 20 firearms and sold all but 3 to pay debts and survive, being without a job for several years.
After I get back on my feet, I hope to be able to replace them - as well as add an M16 to that collection and maybe even a can or two... Personally, I'd declare and keep a rifle and sell off a handgun to a friend (under the radar) to be able to have a handgun and a rifle. Sometimes you need both. What's a couple of hundred dollars off 10's of thousands of dollars of debt? Shouldn't really matter other than a moral issue. Good luck. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:12:06 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:18:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Remember, I want to avoid committing fraud. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:43:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Since moral issues don't seem to be a big deal with you, I'll skip the lecture. Look at it solely as a legal issue. If you lie about "a couple of hundred dollars" of assets and it is later discovered by the court, then the bankruptcy goes away and you once again owe all of that "10's of thousands of dollars of debt." Not to mention possible criminal charges that can lead to fines, penalties and jail time. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:44:07 PM EDT
[#30]
If you're in the process of filing bankruptcy, do you not have to also report the sale of assets in the past 60 or 90 days, prior to the bankruptcy? And if you do, and you have in fact sold some firearms in private sales (read: no paperwork with the buyer), how do you then report that on your paperwork that shows that property being sold? In other words, if there's no record of the sale, why or how does the bankruptcy court accept your word for the sales?  I hope that wasn't too confusing. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:46:15 PM EDT
[#31]
You need to speak with an attorney, now. You only have until mid Oct to file a Chapter 7. The laws are changing. After that you will generally not have the option of a 7, you will have to go the Chapter 13 route.
The lawyer will tell you what the exemption dollar values are. In some states you will have the option to take whichever is the larger exemption, Fed or State. If the debts are jointly held, your wife will be liable also. Are you still married or are you divorced? I'm NOT a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I've heard about the new law and I've got an App. set up for this thursday. His flat fee is $600 which doesn't seem to bad.
We're divorced. The debt was not held jointly. She did however take what was hers and didn't dispute the shared things, which is commendable. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:52:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Is your wife hot?? Does she smoke??
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Posted: 8/20/2005 1:53:10 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 8/20/2005 2:02:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Boom_Stick
declare them on your property list, and see if you stay under the $ amount you are allowed to keep in property value. Also you can list pawn value as the value for any item or prices observed in the local paper. If any real concerns talk to your lawyer about them. most importantly do not lie to the court, if you do and get caught you could face even greater problems than bankruptcy |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 2:10:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Personal property -- $2700 total Wild card -- $2000 of any personal property That'll cover everything easily. Vehicles -- 1 motor vehicle for each individual to $2500 total (2 motor vehicles as community property of spouses two motor vehicles to $5000 total) Question about vehicles: I have a beater car whos year is not even covered in blue book anmore. However I have a truck and it's worth depends on if you blue book it for "Private pary sale" or "suggested retail value." which will they use in judging the value of my truck? |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 2:18:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Again, your lawyer will help with this but, you will use pawn shop/yard sale prices for your personal items. Your cars/trucks will be valued by wholesale prices, what will they bring at the auction/used car dealers lot for trade in. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 2:43:17 PM EDT
[#38]
The thing is if you are in CC debt then you may have already "paid what you owe" Once you get near/at/over the limit and any late payments add fee's fee's fee's. $60/month in late over the limit fee's. It is a scam and usery of the worste kind. If you look at what you have actually paid versus what you have borrowed then you may have paid it all back and then some. Remember they have the money to make the laws and the law is skewed in their favor. Keep your guns. If you have 10+ then I might think about selling them, but only a few? Keep them. Its not like they come and search your house or anything. They will find bank accounts and recent large transfers etc. Just keep your mouth shut. I wouldn't want any kind of gov't record on what guns I had anyway. Your right of self defense is more important, but hey I'm not a lawyer. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 2:44:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Attention to all!!!!
Let me explain it a little better to you. Sell your handgun to a good close friend that you would like to keep, borrow it back to keep for an undetermined time, when you get back on your feet, buy it back for what you sold it for. I need no lectures about morality. Especially from this place. But thanks anyway. There. All legal, simple and everybody is happy. No fraud involved. Happy? Anybody have a moral issue with loaning private property to a friend? Carry on. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 3:22:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Exactly! My only debt is this stupid CC, and I calculate that I've paid well over half in interest. This doesn't remove my obligation but it is impossible for me to pay what I owe on their terms. To pay what I owe on MY terms (say....0% interest) would still take away from necessary living expenses. Thats the only reason I'm going this rout. I talked to three different credit counselors and they looked at my income vs. living expenses. With a dual income paying it off was doable. With my single income they all three suggested going to the bank with a hardship request. None of the counselors would entertain bankruptcy talk because......well, thats their job to avoid BR let alone encourage it through discussion. That sends the message that I'm kinda screwed, and I'd fully blame myself if divorce wasn't a factor. Therefore I'm lawyering up. Thanks to all for your positive input. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Sorry pal, But our tax dollar will not be used to bail him out...Only the billions of dollars of profits made by the CC and/or bankinking industry. 
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:23:22 PM EDT
[#42]
7 shots of tiquila and JosieWales response ='s   Fvck the CC companies. Thaey'll get m,y middle findeerger. I'll rewminise bout the wife and myy dreams, hopes and everytihgn else.. CC compainies be fucked damnitt. fuckem those basterds |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:37:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Divorce - The #1 cause of poverty in America.
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:50:54 PM EDT
[#44]
fuckina , neveer thought it would ha[[en to me. shit hutrs like hell |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 6:57:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Well said.  |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 7:32:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Fixed it for ya 
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Posted: 8/20/2005 8:15:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Hell, I'll chip in my percentage of tax money if it were to come to that. I mean, if our tax money can pay every person approx. $300,000 to move out of the Gaza strip, then why not help out our own once in a while. But, we only bail out the likes of Trump, Mexico, Chrysler, New York, Orange County, Africa, the PLO, etc... (am I missing anyone?) Yeah, bankruptcy is a bitch if you're nobody. |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 8:22:04 PM EDT
[#48]
amazing that you think no one has thought of that before.... that's called an insider sale, and not lawful. failing to report that is fraud just the same...any other ideas? |
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Posted: 8/20/2005 9:09:00 PM EDT
[#49]
I find it funny how people here talk all the time about hiding our weapons and protecting it from when the govenrment wants to take them away, but when a private corporation makes a bad investment in loaning someone lots of money and they end up defaulting on said loan then its okay for the private corporation to use the government to take away our guns.
Anyways its already been mentioned before about how different states have different exemptions. I havent looked at it recently but just for examples in Texas I believe you can have 2 firearms already exempt, and in addition to that and other types of exemptions you get IIRC a $30,000 personal property exemption. If it were me though I definately would give the weapons to someone I trusted instead, unless you've somehow told them previously that you had said firearms how will they know. |
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