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Posted: 1/6/2012 6:51:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:53:28 AM EDT by FightingHellfish]
I have heard that if you are a Federal employee, and a veteran, you can pay a certain percentage of the income you made during a prior year of military service, and that year will count towards your Federal civil retirement.

I had assumed that the years that you "bought" no longer count towards your military active or reserve time for military retirement purposes. However...

I recently spoke to an acquaintance that retired as an officer from the USAR (with prior active duty years), and is an administrator in a government agency, who told me that he "bought" several years of his active-duty military time towards his Federal civil retirement, but that those same years still count towards his USAR retirement. Basically that he had around twelve years of total active-duty time, plus ten years of Army Reserve time, and that he had "bought" six years of military time towards his civilian retirement, but that all 22 years (including the six he "bought" on the civvy side) still counted towards his Army Reserve retirement pension.

Does this sound correct? If it is, that's a sweet double dip.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:58:01 AM EDT
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:01:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:09:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:10:56 AM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:10:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't do it. If you're retired, you cannot buy back time without forfitting your military retirement. There are a lot of new rules to prevent much double or triple dipping.

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.

I have heard of a guy who gave up a military retirement and bought his time back to screw is ex wife who was getting 50% of his money.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:20:11 AM EDT
I am interested in this and was just discussing this option with a coworker at the VA.

How much does it cost per year? I have 13 years ADAF.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:23:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:30:07 AM EDT by FightingHellfish]
Originally Posted By Fulminant:
I am interested in this and was just discussing this option with a coworker at the VA.

How much does it cost per year? I have 13 years ADAF.


It sounds like you could buy some of those 13 years, join the Air Guard for 7 years, and eventually collect both pensions, just with your mil pension based at 1.75 instead of 2.5...

Sweet deal.

The cost, as it was explained to me by my buddy, corresponds to whatever you made in a given year of military service, multiplied times whatever percentage Federal civilian employees paid in that historical year, (supposedly 2 or 3% is typical).

Active duty E-1, E-2 years would be a bargain. Buying E-7 or O-4 years might get pricey.

Of course, I got this info from my buddy that retired, I'd talk to your HR guys for the straight scoop.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:29:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


there is usually a limit as to how much time you can buy. in NJ I believe it's 5 years. So say a Cop or Firefighter could buy back his Military time up to 5 years and retire with 20 years service instead of 25
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:20:24 AM EDT
I'm retired federal civil service. I was a sailor 60-63. Roughly twenty years ago I paid back the three years I was in the Navy. It came to about $550. It was calculated thusly:
7% of my military pay plus interest for every year before I paid it back. The interest rate varied year to year. It was a bargain.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:23:52 AM EDT
I've known lots of Civil Servants that were retired military. No one that I recall that was retired military ever paid their time back. It would have been very expensive. Like maybe
$20000.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:26:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By carnagey:
I've known lots of Civil Servants that were retired military. No one that I recall that was retired military ever paid their time back. It would have been very expensive. Like maybe
$20000.


Again, speaking ONLY for here, it's treated as a loan, with a certain amount being take out of your paycheck automatically...the earlier in your career the cheaper it is. We have a guy that last year said "Fuck It' and bought back 2 years of military time so he could leave..well Now pretty much, 1/31 is his last day. IIRC it cost him something on the order of $24K for those 2 years.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:33:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By carnagey:
I've known lots of Civil Servants that were retired military. No one that I recall that was retired military ever paid their time back. It would have been very expensive. Like maybe
$20000.


Again, speaking ONLY for here, it's treated as a loan, with a certain amount being take out of your paycheck automatically...the earlier in your career the cheaper it is. We have a guy that last year said "Fuck It' and bought back 2 years of military time so he could leave..well Now pretty much, 1/31 is his last day. IIRC it cost him something on the order of $24K for those 2 years.


Is that Federal or State of New Jersey?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:36:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By carnagey:
I've known lots of Civil Servants that were retired military. No one that I recall that was retired military ever paid their time back. It would have been very expensive. Like maybe
$20000.


Again, speaking ONLY for here, it's treated as a loan, with a certain amount being take out of your paycheck automatically...the earlier in your career the cheaper it is. We have a guy that last year said "Fuck It' and bought back 2 years of military time so he could leave..well Now pretty much, 1/31 is his last day. IIRC it cost him something on the order of $24K for those 2 years.


Is that Federal or State of New Jersey?


New Jersey Police and Fire Retirement System, you can buy back up to 5 years of Military, prior LE, Fire, or other elligible time.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:39:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By carnagey:
I've known lots of Civil Servants that were retired military. No one that I recall that was retired military ever paid their time back. It would have been very expensive. Like maybe
$20000.


Again, speaking ONLY for here, it's treated as a loan, with a certain amount being take out of your paycheck automatically...the earlier in your career the cheaper it is. We have a guy that last year said "Fuck It' and bought back 2 years of military time so he could leave..well Now pretty much, 1/31 is his last day. IIRC it cost him something on the order of $24K for those 2 years.


Is that Federal or State of New Jersey?


New Jersey Police and Fire Retirement System, you can buy back up to 5 years of Military, prior LE, Fire, or other elligible time.


Didn't I read on Arfcom GD that you guys get like $350,000 per year when you retire?

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:56:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By robeans:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't do it. If you're retired, you cannot buy back time without forfitting your military retirement. There are a lot of new rules to prevent much double or triple dipping.

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.

I have heard of a guy who gave up a military retirement and bought his time back to screw is ex wife who was getting 50% of his money.


I knew a gs-15 that retired a full bird. He sold it all to bone his ex wife. He said he would never retire to make sure that bitch wouldn't receive a dime.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 12:03:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Eroic:
Originally Posted By robeans:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't do it. If you're retired, you cannot buy back time without forfitting your military retirement. There are a lot of new rules to prevent much double or triple dipping.

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.

I have heard of a guy who gave up a military retirement and bought his time back to screw is ex wife who was getting 50% of his money.


I knew a gs-15 that retired a full bird. He sold it all to bone his ex wife. He said he would never retire to make sure that bitch wouldn't receive a dime.



Can they really do that and get away with it? If so that's AWESOME!
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 12:30:39 PM EDT
BTW, as an added bonus, if you buy your time back, you accumulate your annual leave at a higher rate if you have enough years; less than 3 you are still only getting 4 hours per pay period, 3 to 15 years 6 hours per pay period and over 15 years 8 hours per pay period.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 12:36:44 PM EDT
BTW, as an added bonus, if you buy your time back, you accumulate your annual leave at a higher rate if you have enough years; less than 3 you are still only getting 4 hours per pay period, 3 to 15 years 6 hours per pay period and over 15 years 8 hours per pay period.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:00:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Talk with your HR department.

After you buy back your military time you still continue to get your military retirement pension.

When you buy back your time your military time isn't 2.5% x years served it becomes 1.75% x years served.

From what I have seen if you're a retired E-6 and below and are a GS-12 or above it pays. At E-7 and above and GS-11 and below you have to crunch the numbers in a spreadsheet and it depends on the number of years served with each.

There's a few folks that have sold their time - a E-6 with 18 years (no retirement) bought his years for his GS-12 current job. Another retired as an E-7 at 20 years and is now a GS-14 (with GS-15 pay thanks to NSPS).

My plan is to keep my 24 year E-9 retirement and earn a +20 year GS-13 or GS-14 one too and retire around age 64-66.

I did the math and it doesn't work for me. My plan is similar to yours, 24 year W-3 retirement pay and my 20+ GS-14 retirement.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:21:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
I have heard that if you are a Federal employee, and a veteran, you can pay a certain percentage of the income you made during a prior year of military service, and that year will count towards your Federal civil retirement.

I had assumed that the years that you "bought" no longer count towards your military active or reserve time for military retirement purposes. However...

I recently spoke to an acquaintance that retired as an officer from the USAR (with prior active duty years), and is an administrator in a government agency, who told me that he "bought" several years of his active-duty military time towards his Federal civil retirement, but that those same years still count towards his USAR retirement. Basically that he had around twelve years of total active-duty time, plus ten years of Army Reserve time, and that he had "bought" six years of military time towards his civilian retirement, but that all 22 years (including the six he "bought" on the civvy side) still counted towards his Army Reserve retirement pension.

Does this sound correct? If it is, that's a sweet double dip.


I haven't yet, but I have most of the process complete.

It goes like this...you aren't "buying back" anything, you are paying what you would have paid into the federal retirement plan had you been on it during your time in the military. You cannot do this if you have already retired...your acquaintance cannot do this because he already retired. Also, retired people do not receive credit for their time served...for instance, I was active duty almost 9 years, so for most purposes as a civilian I am considered to have 9+ years in civil service...the only area this doesn't apply is the retirement plan, you have to pay into that retirement plan to make up for the years you didn't contribute.

First, you contact your military branch and get a statement that tells you how much you were paid in the military. Then, the civilian retirement people use that to calculate how much of that you would have paid into the federal retirement plan (FERS for me) had you been a civilian the entire time. Then, you have 2 years to pay off that entire amount interest free...after 2 years you get charged interest.

It's pretty simple...the pay statement from the military can take a month or 3 to get, they are backed up, but you get it eventually.

All the details are readily available at www.opm.gov.

Cheers!

12
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:25:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GuardGuy:
BTW, as an added bonus, if you buy your time back, you accumulate your annual leave at a higher rate if you have enough years; less than 3 you are still only getting 4 hours per pay period, 3 to 15 years 6 hours per pay period and over 15 years 8 hours per pay period.


You do not have to buy your time back for this...it is automatic.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:27:24 PM EDT
Reading a lot of bad information in this thread.

www.opm.gov. Read it, don't be misled.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:37:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By robeans:

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.


Then he is screwing himself. SF-813 to verify service in non-wartime campaigns and expeditions. Unless he is like my ex-wife, and did 20 years in the AF without deploying. I was able to get 30 months credited, and was quickly over the 36 month mark.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:37:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't, as a reserve or guard member, you can buy back any active duty time you had as long as you are not currently drawing retirement from the guard or reserve. If you are drawing retirement from the guard or reserve, you can buy back only active duty time. Let me explain. I had 7 years active and 15 years guard and reserve time for a total of 22 years. I am now in civil service and was able to buy back my 7 years of active duty; however I can't buy back the 15 years of guard and reserve time, because I can technically draw a retirement from the guard/reserve at age 62. If you are medically retired from active duty you also cannot buy back that time and the time does not count toward leave earnings etc. When you buy back your time it does not count toward the years you need to retire from civil service. Let me explain, I bought back 7 years of active duty; however I still must work in civil service under FERS until my years of service and my age equal 80 to draw a full retirement. Once I achieve that magic number and retire, say for arguments sake my number of years of civil service is 29, then my 7 years of active duty that I have bought back is added to 29 to give me retirement pay for 36 years of service. Alot of people think that if they buy back their active duty time it counts towards retirement from civil service, not so, it only counts once you actually have enough time in to retire and is added at the end.

If you have any questions, pm me and I'll try to explain it more in depth for you.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:40:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't, as a reserve or guard member, you can buy back any active duty time you had as long as you are not currently drawing retirement from the guard or reserve. If you are drawing retirement from the guard or reserve, you can buy back only active duty time. Let me explain. I had 7 years active and 15 years guard and reserve time for a total of 22 years. I am now in civil service and was able to buy back my 7 years of active duty; however I can't buy back the 15 years of guard and reserve time, because I can technically draw a retirement from the guard/reserve at age 62. If you are medically retired from active duty you also cannot buy back that time and the time does not count toward leave earnings etc. When you buy back your time it does not count toward the years you need to retire from civil service. Let me explain, I bought back 7 years of active duty; however I still must work in civil service under FERS until my years of service and my age equal 80 to draw a full retirement. Once I achieve that magic number and retire, say for arguments sake my number of years of civil service is 29, then my 7 years of active duty that I have bought back is added to 29 to give me retirement pay for 36 years of service. Alot of people think that if they buy back their active duty time it counts towards retirement from civil service, not so, it only counts once you actually have enough time in to retire and is added at the end.

If you have any questions, pm me and I'll try to explain it more in depth for you.


Do those same rules apply for Federal law enforcement retirement?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:41:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ABNAK:
Originally Posted By Eroic:
Originally Posted By robeans:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't do it. If you're retired, you cannot buy back time without forfitting your military retirement. There are a lot of new rules to prevent much double or triple dipping.

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.

I have heard of a guy who gave up a military retirement and bought his time back to screw is ex wife who was getting 50% of his money.


I knew a gs-15 that retired a full bird. He sold it all to bone his ex wife. He said he would never retire to make sure that bitch wouldn't receive a dime.



Can they really do that and get away with it? If so that's AWESOME!


Not without getting the Ex to sign a statement waiving their right to any of the retirement.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:46:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't, as a reserve or guard member, you can buy back any active duty time you had as long as you are not currently drawing retirement from the guard or reserve. If you are drawing retirement from the guard or reserve, you can buy back only active duty time. Let me explain. I had 7 years active and 15 years guard and reserve time for a total of 22 years. I am now in civil service and was able to buy back my 7 years of active duty; however I can't buy back the 15 years of guard and reserve time, because I can technically draw a retirement from the guard/reserve at age 62. If you are medically retired from active duty you also cannot buy back that time and the time does not count toward leave earnings etc. When you buy back your time it does not count toward the years you need to retire from civil service. Let me explain, I bought back 7 years of active duty; however I still must work in civil service under FERS until my years of service and my age equal 80 to draw a full retirement. Once I achieve that magic number and retire, say for arguments sake my number of years of civil service is 29, then my 7 years of active duty that I have bought back is added to 29 to give me retirement pay for 36 years of service. Alot of people think that if they buy back their active duty time it counts towards retirement from civil service, not so, it only counts once you actually have enough time in to retire and is added at the end.

If you have any questions, pm me and I'll try to explain it more in depth for you.


Do those same rules apply for Federal law enforcement retirement?


No for federal law enforcement you must be able to have 20 years in before you reach age 56, so you can't even join federal law enforcement after age 36. I was federal law enforcement for 11 years, it is one of the few agencies (DOD Firefighters also fall under this rule) that have age limits on joining the agency.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:48:03 PM EDT
Some links that might answer some questions...some stuff I didn't know, too, I never looked into areas that didn't apply to me:

Waiving Military Retirement

Sorta-useful Veteran FAQ

Service Credit - How much you have to pay

Lot of possible scenarios...if you have a specific question you want answered, I don't mind trying to look it up.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:49:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't, as a reserve or guard member, you can buy back any active duty time you had as long as you are not currently drawing retirement from the guard or reserve. If you are drawing retirement from the guard or reserve, you can buy back only active duty time. Let me explain. I had 7 years active and 15 years guard and reserve time for a total of 22 years. I am now in civil service and was able to buy back my 7 years of active duty; however I can't buy back the 15 years of guard and reserve time, because I can technically draw a retirement from the guard/reserve at age 62. If you are medically retired from active duty you also cannot buy back that time and the time does not count toward leave earnings etc. When you buy back your time it does not count toward the years you need to retire from civil service. Let me explain, I bought back 7 years of active duty; however I still must work in civil service under FERS until my years of service and my age equal 80 to draw a full retirement. Once I achieve that magic number and retire, say for arguments sake my number of years of civil service is 29, then my 7 years of active duty that I have bought back is added to 29 to give me retirement pay for 36 years of service. Alot of people think that if they buy back their active duty time it counts towards retirement from civil service, not so, it only counts once you actually have enough time in to retire and is added at the end.

If you have any questions, pm me and I'll try to explain it more in depth for you.


Do those same rules apply for Federal law enforcement retirement?


No for federal law enforcement you must be able to have 20 years in before you reach age 56, so you can't even join federal law enforcement after age 36. I was federal law enforcement for 11 years, it is one of the few agencies (DOD Firefighters also fall under this rule) that have age limits on joining the agency.


37 now, have to complete FLETC before the end of the month you turn 37.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:42:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't, as a reserve or guard member, you can buy back any active duty time you had as long as you are not currently drawing retirement from the guard or reserve. If you are drawing retirement from the guard or reserve, you can buy back only active duty time. Let me explain. I had 7 years active and 15 years guard and reserve time for a total of 22 years. I am now in civil service and was able to buy back my 7 years of active duty; however I can't buy back the 15 years of guard and reserve time, because I can technically draw a retirement from the guard/reserve at age 62. If you are medically retired from active duty you also cannot buy back that time and the time does not count toward leave earnings etc. When you buy back your time it does not count toward the years you need to retire from civil service. Let me explain, I bought back 7 years of active duty; however I still must work in civil service under FERS until my years of service and my age equal 80 to draw a full retirement. Once I achieve that magic number and retire, say for arguments sake my number of years of civil service is 29, then my 7 years of active duty that I have bought back is added to 29 to give me retirement pay for 36 years of service. Alot of people think that if they buy back their active duty time it counts towards retirement from civil service, not so, it only counts once you actually have enough time in to retire and is added at the end.

If you have any questions, pm me and I'll try to explain it more in depth for you.


Do those same rules apply for Federal law enforcement retirement?


No for federal law enforcement you must be able to have 20 years in before you reach age 56, so you can't even join federal law enforcement after age 36. I was federal law enforcement for 11 years, it is one of the few agencies (DOD Firefighters also fall under this rule) that have age limits on joining the agency.


They waiver the age rule now if you have enough prior military or prior Fed LE to still hit the mandatory retirement age.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 3:48:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mrsdoublearon:
Originally Posted By ABNAK:
Originally Posted By Eroic:
Originally Posted By robeans:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
I haven't done it. Never been a government employee after leaving service.

Yes it is a double dip. It is legal because as a servicemember you earn a pension based on base pay, the pension is factored in at the pay level. As a gov civie, you can buy that time toward a civie pension because it was fed.gov employment, but nothing was paid in toward the civie pension on it. You pay the portion toward the civie pension you have then earned those years.

You still qualify for both.


So, suppose you retired with 20 years from the Army, and got hired on with the Federal Department of Widgets and Butt Lube. What would stop you from buying all 20 military years and immediately retiring from DoW&BL and collecting both pensions, assuming you had the cash on hand to write the check?


You can't do it. If you're retired, you cannot buy back time without forfitting your military retirement. There are a lot of new rules to prevent much double or triple dipping.

For instance, I have 8 years of active. I can buy back my 8 years towards my Fed retirement and my 8 years count towards my federal service so I gain leave at a higher rate. My buddy who is a retired 30 year E9 is treated like he has no time. He gains leave at the entry level rate.

I have heard of a guy who gave up a military retirement and bought his time back to screw is ex wife who was getting 50% of his money.


I knew a gs-15 that retired a full bird. He sold it all to bone his ex wife. He said he would never retire to make sure that bitch wouldn't receive a dime.



Can they really do that and get away with it? If so that's AWESOME!


Not without getting the Ex to sign a statement waiving their right to any of the retirement.


Thought that sounded too easy. Damn shame.

Would also seem like if you did that the ex would be "entitled" to your civil service retirement then.

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