[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27341[/url]

Sounds like the Clinton white house.  Bunch of pricks.  Literally.  [rolleyes]

When I was in the Marines, I knew of single Marines who were dating/sleeping with married Marines wives.

Personally I think the punishment for that type of thing should be death. A proffessional soldier/marine should be able to deploy without worrying that some REMF is trying to hook up with his wife.

When I sit here and read this I just laugh... Just like anything else there is always two sides... But when I goto the Club and I see the guys (who just went on a 30-day FX) wives sitting at the bar chatting it up its more then just a lady being taken advantage of.

Nobody is saying the cheating wives are innocent. However being dependants they are not subject to the UCMJ.

Proffessional warriors should be held to a higher standard, and should look out for each other.

If you want to screw your co-workers wives get a job in some office cubicle. But dont dishonor the United States military with your lack of self control.

Yeah, we live in a society where a lot of folks think with their genitals.  Kids are indoctrinated that sex is the be all and end all of life from just about the time they can understand what's going on on TV.

We wonder where the massive illegitimacy, sexually transmited diseases and general family breakdown is coming from?  Its from the so-called sexual revolution, more properly refered to as the sexual devolution.  That is at the heart of a lot of the ills in our culture.

Frankly, we need to get our society back to a value in which sex is not approached casually, but with due respect for the consequences and the emotional impacts it can have. We also need to get to a point where marriage is treated with honor as being sacred and respectable, not something that gets in the way and can be readily disposed of if it gets too difficult.

BTW,  In Germany in 1991 I was one of the REMF's left behind to hold the fort and tear down the battallion when it deployed to the Storm.  I saw several of my buddies wives conducting affairs with other REMFs while their men were out fighting.  In one case, one wife was having an affair with another wife while their husbands were at war.  Disgusting.

We had the duty on a checkpoint between two parts of the base.  One one side of base were the enlisted clubs, the barracks were on the other side.  We had to check ID's for everyone passing from one side of the base to the other.  I can't count the number of dependent ID's I saw in the obvious romantic company of soldiers who were not their spouses.  It was disgusting.

If it became an issue the battallion tried to handle it internally with the commander's wife trying to counsel the wives and others addressing the soldiers themselves as best they could.  How much good that did I don't know.

What a freakin' mess.

When I read stuff like this, I'm glad I followed my dad's advice (20 yrs, sgt in the AF) NOT to join the military..... [rolleyes]

Sad. Backstabbing begins at home, I guess, in more ways than one.

Are you trying to claim that wives of civilians never cheat on their husbands?

Hahaha

You really looked hard to come up with that comment didn't you.  You're worse than some ex-girlfriends.

You are SO RIGHT.  When my post's (Fliegerhorst, Hanau, Germany) Apache battalions were deployed to DS, the pilot's and crew's wives were out an about THAT NIGHT at the all-ranks club on post.  What a joke.

I took a job as Aide-de-Campe to the V Corps Arty commander (BG) in late 1990, and we were there to pick up Gen. Shalikashvili and some Arty brigade commanders when they flew into Rhein Main AFB at the end of DS.  It was sad to watch selected soldiers pulled off the 747's steps and led into offices just off of the tarmac.  There, waiting with an MP, were their adulterous wives. They'd been instructed by the V Corps CG to come clean.  The MPs were there to keep the wives alive.  That shit went on BIG TIME, and not just in wartime.  I sent many a soldier's wife back to the states because she couldn't keep her mouth shut or her hands off of other soldiers.

That's sidestepping the issue. The issue is: how is one expected to defend one's own country- the basis of which is the community, founded by families and composed of individuals, if that soldier, sailor, airman or marine puts himself in harm's way, wondering whether his wife is destroying the basis for that trust and faith behind his back? As we have seen since 9/11, the unthinkable is possible, and thinking and uncertainty magnify problems. Somehow I imagine that wondering whether my wife was humping some bozo back at the base wouldn't do much to keep ME level-headed in a combat situation. After all, nobody is Superman..

But, as I said as a disclaimer, I did not serve in the military, but grew up in many environments, some of which were on AF and army bases. Lots of fights and domestic scenes, more so than on the outside. Others may say differently, who were in that life longer than I was- I was only a dependent.

No wonder we had suicides in the Balkans and the Gulf, if what I have read in this thread from sjsample and icemanat95 is any indication.

Maybe the old concept of a citizen's army or militia is still the way to go: temporary, periodic service when young, before attachments start. Occasional retraining as one gets older. Would certainly help cut down on the entrenchment of the REMFs and permanent officer classes in running things.

With such spouses, enemies don't need to employ fifth columnists- they're already hard at work, corroding our will to resist.

"Insert Knife Here- Then Twist"
-on back of T-shirt I saw years ago.........

(Edited: must....learn....how...to....type.....)

I was an MP in Germany when about 1/4 of the guys on the bases went to Bosina.
Every night a bunch of their wives would get pulled over drunk from one of the clubs or bars with a rear ranger in the car.
LOTS of fights when the guys came home for their two weeks off. I'd say about half were the guy hitting the woman for real, the other half we would get there and all his stuff (pictures, his mothers plates, his kid's baseball trophies) would be smashed and she would have the infamous 'red mark' on her face so he would get confined until he headed back and she could shack up with her sweetie for 6-9 months until he got chaptered out and she got the free move to join him there.
After we caught on we 'couldn't see' the mark anymore, and no woman is going to really bruise her face or cut it, even if the wives drinking groups tell her to.

95thFoot...please don your flame suit,
 and i quote:  "No wonder we had suicides in the Balkans and the Gulf, if what I have read in this thread from sjsample and icemanat95 is any indication"  
 what do you mean "we" you didnt have any suicides because you decided not to serve. WE had suicides among the ranks of our fellow service men because WE are out there doing it. not sitting at home pontificating on our moral superiority. i too have seen this problem first hand. when i arrived at 2/7 Marines in 29 palms (i had been at the base for 6mo but not with that unit)i checked in at Blt. on the very day the bulk of the unit left for deployment. that VERY night the E-club on base began having ladies night. you see 95th, men will be men, and as we all know from watching Oprah... men are pigs. i believe the root of the problem is the phenomenon that occurs when Pvt Schmuckatelli goes home on boot leave and he marries the first girl that gives him a piece. he never had any before but when he shows up at the DQ on saturday night in Goatbang Arkansas in his Dress Blues suzy looks at him in a whole new way. she now sees him as her ticket out of goatbang AR and sees a future other than scanning can goods at Piggly-wiggly. then her PFC husband goes on his first float and there she is all by herself. getting $ out of the joint account, shopping at the PX, going to the E-club with the rest of the 19yr old wives. some guy, any guy will bang your wife if he gets the chance. its gonna happen. its YOUR job to find a good woman strong enough to be a military wife. not everywoman is up to the task.

you know what...im glad you took your Dad's advice too

Iceman, you must've been stationed at Bitburg, no?

Command Lesson -

While I was Topkick at DSX (no, you probably never heard of it...) I had a simple rule -

Married Men Don't Deploy.  Exceptions not permitted.  Period.

We were out on deployment 22-27 days out of 30, either training or "working."  Distractions are not necessary or welcome.

If a man was getting married, or getting a REALLY steady relationship going, I'd start putting him into "support" roles for us.  Besides, it's nice to have someone with operations experience under his belt in the admin side of the TO&E.  I didn't want pure admin pukes - they didn't get the job done the way it NEEDED to be done (it had nothing to do with what I wanted.)

If a man REALLY was getting into something good (I don't like breaking up homes anyhow,) he'd get an option.  While I was happy to keep him to support the rest of us, maybe in the comm shack or something, if he didn't like it I'd try to get him something he wanted.  BUT, he wouldn't deploy with us anymore.  I simply wanted to prevent the opportunity from arising...

Funny, we never had that trouble.  I didn't get married until I got out anyhow...

"Marriage is an old man's comfort and a young man's disaster."  Robert Anson Heinlein, "Starship Troopers"

FFZ

Bamberg

You don't have much experience with people in the military, do you.  Or are you naive enough to assume that the military personnel on deployment aren't getting any?

And no, it is not sidestepping the issue.  The people in the military and their spouses are no different than the rest of the members of our society.  Do you feel safe knowing that the pilot of that airliner you just boarded is distracted with worry about what his wife is doing while he's away?  How about the driver of the 18 wheeler behind you in traffic who's wondering what his wife is doing while he's on the road?

Freefire, you are so right.  I got married at age 33.  Well after I left active duty.  Never had the urge to stray and love my wife and two daughters.  Young men need to get out and live their lives without worry about what they left back at home.

Hey buddy, I agree with what you are saying, but your last line ruined your case. We need more people like this guy in the uniform to counter-balance all of the REMF and Grunt pieces-o-trash out there. Why is he a bad guy for saying that it disgusts him and he does not want to be a part of it. I agree that he should look past the warts so to speak, and see the real purpose of serving, but get off of your soap box already.

(Continued from above)




If their COs are competent at all, and not just cleaning sh*t out of cuckoo clocks for a living, they will find ample employment for all under their command in a forward deployment. Doesn't it make sense that a CO would try to keep his men's minds (and hands) occupied on a forward deployment?



Ah- but they are. They shouldn't be, but, because we have this HUGE standing military establishment, in order to join and to serve in it, one must swear an oath to the Costitution and to also (last time I knew) promise not to dishonor the service or the flag under which all serve. (God only knows what Clinton made the troops swear to...) It's voluntary- if people can't hack the restrictions, they shouldn't sign on the dotted line.



Airline pilots and truck drivers aren't under the extraordinary stress of combat. The soldier literally has to be ready to give up his life in order to accomplish his mission, which is to keep America safe from foreign enemies. I don't recall too many trucking firms or airlines which demand their employees be willing to die in the course of their daily routine in order to get the passengers or freight to Omaha or Timbuktu....

ARfan said it best here, and it certainly applies in an all-volunteer military, unlike the draftee-filled one I grew up around, where NOBODY wanted to be there, or at least it seemed like that to me when I was a kid:

"Proffessional warriors should be held to a higher standard, and should look out for each other.

If you want to screw your co-workers wives get a job in some office cubicle. But dont dishonor the United States military with your lack of self control. "

My posts are not meant to be a slam at the idea of the armed forces, only at the system which perpetuates corruption, sloth, mediocrity and stupidity. And some of the knuckleheads who don't read the fine print when they join up...

My dad- one of those REMFs for much of his career- used to say:

"There's the right way, the wrong way, the Air Force Way and there's my way- do it my way, and we'll all get along."[:D]

Ahhh the "infamous" WESPAC WIDOWS!! C'mon you shower shoes the DI's passed the word on this trash in boot camp.

It's the same old song. Men will be men and women are dirty little tramps.

Trust me with your life, not your money or your wife. - USMC

03 out!! [x]

Were you still in Germany when the guy got back from the storm to find out his wife was pregnant from some other guy?  He killed the guy, hacked off his head, put it in a hat box and delivered it to his wife in the hospital there who was having this guys son.  Read about it in the stars and stripes.  We had a shitload of that happen at ole cripple creek (Bentwaters) when I was there during the war.  The married womenz had a "field day" while their hubbies were deployed.

A buddy of mine got word during REFORGER that his wife was screwing around.

The First Sergeant (hard ass old school type) assembled a detail and sent us back to post ahead of him. By the time he made it back we had already located the SOB (a FNG who stayed in the rear), prepped him for outprocessing (one of the finest ass kickings I've had the privelege of seeing / administering), turned him over to the First Sergeant for formal charges and rounded up his 'wife' so she could be shipped back to the states.

My buddy was kind of in shock and didn't object to shipping her out in light of what she had done. She was on a plane in less than twelve hours.

The beautiful thing is the First Shirt made the SOB clean up the mess after his 'outprocessing'.

Last I heard he was on the block with a dishonorable to live down.

Sometimes the system works.

(No problem. Nomex is my middle name, esp. here at AR15.com...[:D])



Oooh...cheap shot. Guess I had it coming, _if_ you choose to misread the points of my posts in this thread. Well, you had a lot of good things to say in your post, but, unfortunately, you lost me there. If the people you describe are pretty much the typical GI,nowadays, and in an all-volunteer force (!) then how do we attract more qualified people into the military? Everybody knows that smart people are the ones that win wars- Lord knows we need more of them. there aren't enough young single guys and gals with sufficient brainpower or skills going into the military today. Don't agree with me? Go ask your local recruiter what he or she thinks...

OR.... go to more of a citizen militia or reserve system, decentralised and domestic, subject to yearly training and call-ups. (Not the NatGd as we have it today.) Unfortunately, the concept of most people wanting to serve has pretty much been bred out the American people- they are too used to UNcle Sam doing everything for them.

"The government is not your mommy and daddy."
- Gov. Jesse Ventura, Minn.

Nothing new there, and it happens in peacetime, too. F'rinstance, I remember in 1963, as a little kid in Germany reading the Stars and Stripes (well, more hearing about it- I was just learning how to read) about some GI who was cutting up and killing German women. Some of the tales were pretty gruesome, too, akin to this case.

I'd agree with the militia system where you serve part time. I think it would give most people a nice break from their routine and also give them a chance to serve their country. I personally probably won't qualify to serve in combat but I can handle most technical things.

they already have that, its called the Reserves. and wouldnt you know every damn time you get an opportunity to do something cool its drill weekend. concerts, shows, weddings, parties, vacations anything cool that happens tends to be planned for the first weekend of the month (or so it seems) and AT is even worse. i changed reserve units last month and up until then i had planned on attending an old friends wedding, then leaving straight from there to go to the BRC. wrong. the new unit is scheduled ot leave for AOT in San Diego on June 1. yes, its true....Mr Murphy is a reservist.


hey 95th, no hard feelings eh.

Husband or Wife, it is WRONG, period!

As far as the UCMJ, it doesnt hold water anymore. For some reason, the "individuals" (male/female) are not being punished according to the UCMJ. Adultry, writeing bad checks,assualt, dui... It doesn't matter! I know first hand!!

DvlDog, the Reserves are still part of the standing armed forces, and as such, an arm of the Federal Govt., as is the National Guard. The NG does not get its paychecks from the individual state govts, but from (last I knew) a federal pay office in GA? As for state NGs being independent, I remember when Gov. Dukakis [puke] tried to prevent the MA NG from going on deployments to Central America in the 1980s. The SCOTUS told him to go pound sand, and that the NGs were little more than personnel pools for the military.

What we SHOULD have is a form of reserves known as the citizens' militia. Unfortunately, the word "militia" has gained a scary, though generally undeserved rep at the hands of the media's slanted quill pens....even something on the Swiss model, but tailored more towards American values would be better.





None taken- funny thing is I did try to join the AF (took my dad's advice who said, 'go first class- be an offr. in the USAF!'...), when I got out of college, aced several entrance exams for it and the USA and USN and USMC (all exc. for the Navy flight test- TOUGH test....), but the other recruiters thought I was too averse to taking orders and regimentation, since I was too old (27) and knew more than many of the officers about my given areas of knowledge....

By the time the USAF got back to me to let me know they finally had something for me, I was already finishing grad school and was married to a foreigner. Bye bye security clearance...

Not that I remember.  I was in the middle of my own outprocessing just after the war and not paying a whole lot of attention to anything but getting home.  

My own experience (which I don't talk about much) is why I believe soldiers (especially first enlistees) should not have wives or even steady girlfriends. They should keep their relationships as casual as possible and be willing to walk away in a moment.  Otherwise they get your thinking twisted around and fouled up and before you know it, your head is stuck so far up you arse you aren't fit for soldiering. I married the wench who mind-f*$#ed me...worst mistake I ever made.  She cheated on me with a friend at the end of the marriage and eventually took off with him after the divorce.  I talked with the guy a few months ago and found it easy to forgive him when he commiserated with me that she is a bloody nutcase.

I made some really crappy decisions under the influence of said woman that I will regret to the end of my days (fortunately none of them were illegal, just stupid and shameful).  That's not to say I don't retain responsibility for the decisions, I am 100% responsible for them...thus the regret and shame, just to illustrate that immature relationships (the majority of relationships engaged in by 18-21 year old servicemen and women) are detrimental to the duties of a soldier.

As soldiers grow older and become more experienced in the stresses and requirements of the military life, they become mature enough to handle relationships better, but they still get fouled up a lot because its just a plain old hard life.

So for you first time-enlistees out there...try to avoid romantic entanglements for a while.  A casual girlfriend or boyfriend (preferably a string of single digit dates) is fine, but anything more than that is gonna screw with your head.  You will spend darned near your whole first enlistment just figuring out what's going on, and navigating that with "honey" on your mind and all the stresses and tensions they put on things is a real PITA.

BTW, I'm happily married now to a Ph.D. and have two kids, both of whom I'd be proud to see serve in uniform, though I won't push them either way. So I'm not some misogynist moron, just a guy who saw a lot of other young soldiers, including himself, totally screwed up by their hormones, immature emotions and equally immature and young wives/fiances/serious girlfriends.

On a different note, have any of you noticed how much your opportunities seem to open up once you are "off the market?" WTF is that all about?

I was.  I laughed my ass off as the SOB got what was coming to him.[:)]

It looks as if the Army hasn't changed much.