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Posted: 9/8/2013 4:57:08 AM EDT
What would have happened if other countries got involved in our civil war? Which side would they have picked? |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 4:58:38 AM EDT
[#1]
England sent advisors to the South.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:00:00 AM EDT
[#2]
English mills needed Southern cotton
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:02:35 AM EDT
[#3]
You can't really compare the two. News took months to travel across the ocean; now it's almost instant. Chemical weapons were not used against civilians (though terror tactics were employeed, like burning of cities).
And of course, like others mentioned, England did poke their nose in. Over all, warfare was very different then than it is now. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:02:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Didn't France float us a small loan?
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:05:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Many countries sold stuff and traded with the south. That's why it was blockaded at sea. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:06:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Nations weren't supposed to interfere with the internal affairs of another nation. Post-war Great Britain was successfully sued by the U.S. for supplying the Confederacy.
Now, had the Confederacy proved itself viable, it may have been recognized. French Emperor Louis Napoleon certainly wanted to recognize the Confederacy but wouldn't do it unless Great Britain acted similarly. After the Emancipation Proclamation, it was no longer feasible to have foreign intervention. No nation wanted to come out in support of slavery. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:07:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't France float us a small loan? and weapons, powder, other things. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:08:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
What would have happened if other countries got involved in our civil war? Which side would they have picked? You failed history too |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:12:12 AM EDT
[#9]
hahahahahaha what?
You could say every country was involved. Welcome male immigrant, your family will be safe here! Now heres a musket, get on that train!! |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:12:45 AM EDT
[#10]
One of the reasons for The Emancipation Proclomation was to keep France from helping the south.
The French did not like the idea of slavery and it kept them out. he Brits did help some and many nations traded with the south. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:13:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Pretty interesting, two civil war ships battle of coast of France
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/civilwar/cw-cru/kear-ala.htm |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:13:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Selling war goods is common practice. Civil war is no exception. Free trade.
Joining a side, pulling triggers, and making kills is different. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:17:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Selling war goods is common practice. Civil war is no exception. Free trade. Joining a side, pulling triggers, and making kills is different. Not in a total war situation, it's not. (Our Civil War resembled core principles of total war, in many aspects.) |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:18:47 AM EDT
[#14]
On a covert level, the Brits allowed shipyards to build commerce raiders like the CSS Alabama, and sell cannons to the Confederacy (the ships were armed in the Azores). After the war, the United States government sued the U.K. for the damages these ships caused.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:25:44 AM EDT
[#15]
ah the state of the world will be in when CW3 starts at home...
China snapping up every thing they want that borders them. Israel having to defend its self from a Collection of allied Islamic extremest states that we helped build... Russia being Russia. Major EU economy's falling out do to a lack of products from the US/China. Canada having to try and support the masses of fleeing US citizens. Open war between north and south Korea. It will be a sad time and one the world is never likely to recover from. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:26:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ah the state of the world will be in when CW3 starts at home... China snapping up every thing they want that borders them. Israel having to defend its self from a Collection of allied Islamic extremest states that we helped build... Russia being Russia. Major EU economy's falling out do to a lack of products from the US/China. Canada having to try and support the masses of fleeing US citizens. Open war between north and south Korea. It will be a sad time and one the world is never likely to recover from. lol |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:33:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You failed history too Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would have happened if other countries got involved in our civil war? Which side would they have picked? You failed history too Maybe I should be more clear and stuff. Boots on the ground. The equivalent of dropping bombs. Things like that. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:44:37 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I should be more clear and stuff. Boots on the ground. The equivalent of dropping bombs. Things like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What would have happened if other countries got involved in our civil war? Which side would they have picked? You failed history too Maybe I should be more clear and stuff. Boots on the ground. The equivalent of dropping bombs. Things like that. Pretty sure foreign military advisors counseled their own nations against sending troops after witnessing the First Battle of Bull Run. Something about our war being a meat grinder and anyone they sent would only come home in a pine box. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:56:43 AM EDT
[#19]
several Mexican states were giving aid to the South and several Governors had given word that if the South won, they would join the Confederate States in the new government. like others have said, England had advisors on the ground.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 5:56:58 AM EDT
[#20]
England supplied the Confederacy with about 300,000 Enfield rifles.
And as already mentioned they sold Confederate agents an unarmed fast ship, it was named the CSS Alabama. The Rebs armed it and turned it into a warship. The Alabama's record of commerce raiding still stands to this day. She destroyed, sank or captured more US ships than any other ship, ever. The US sued England after the war, over the Alabama totally trashing their commerce fleet, and actually won the case. It was known as the Alabama Claims and England paid 15.5 million in damages. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:01:44 AM EDT
[#21]
For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history.
France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:03:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Well, France certainly took the opportunity to try an end run around the Monroe Doctrine.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:05:40 AM EDT
[#23]
If we had a current civil war, say the gov tries to take our guns or whatever and there is mass resistance. Would other countries intervene and who's side would they pick?
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:12:48 AM EDT
[#24]
The French?
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:15:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we had a current civil war, say the gov tries to take our guns or whatever and there is mass resistance. Would other countries intervene and who's side would they pick? I think they would get involved, but not necessarily pick a side. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:16:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Ever wonder what our population would be if the civil war never happened? Watched Gettysburg other day and couldn't help but think of all the extra people living today if all those people lived to have 3-10 kids each k stead of being killed in battle.
We could easily be 3x the population today. Wheather that's a good thing or not I'll let someone else argue. Just food for thought. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:17:03 AM EDT
[#27]
The French were going to send assistance to the south but the south lost a major battle which turned the tide of the war and the French knew shit wouldn't be good if they helped the side that lost.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 6:21:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history. France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. Wrong war dude.  |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:07:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
England supplied the Confederacy with about 300,000 Enfield rifles. And as already mentioned they sold Confederate agents an unarmed fast ship, it was named the CSS Alabama. The Rebs armed it and turned it into a warship. The Alabama's record of commerce raiding still stands to this day. She destroyed, sank or captured more US ships than any other ship, ever. The US sued England after the war, over the Alabama totally trashing their commerce fleet, and actually won the case. It was known as the Alabama Claims and England paid 15.5 million in damages. Best book on CSS Alabama is "Memoirs of Service Afloat During the War Between the States" by the Captain Raphael Semmes. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:11:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong war dude.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history. France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. Wrong war dude.
Yea, that was Americas first war of independence, we won that one. We are talking about our second war of independence. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:17:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea, that was Americas first war of independence, we won that one. We are talking about our second war of independence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history. France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. Wrong war dude.
Yea, that was Americas first war of independence, we won that one. We are talking about our second war of independence. That would be the War of 1812, try again. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:19:38 AM EDT
[#32]
active diplomacy on both sides.
England was sympathetic to the south, but didn't want to eat a shit sandwich if the south lost. one of the stated reasons for Lee to go to pennsylvania was a sign of strength for the british to see if they could get more support. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:22:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Because only we are dumb enough to get involved in someone else's civil war.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:28:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Benito Juarez supported the Union.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:39:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
England supplied the Confederacy with about 300,000 Enfield rifles. And as already mentioned they sold Confederate agents an unarmed fast ship, it was named the CSS Alabama. The Rebs armed it and turned it into a warship. The Alabama's record of commerce raiding still stands to this day. She destroyed, sank or captured more US ships than any other ship, ever. The US sued England after the war, over the Alabama totally trashing their commerce fleet, and actually won the case. It was known as the Alabama Claims and England paid 15.5 million in damages. Federal Enfield Rifles |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:41:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be the War of 1812, try again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history. France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. Wrong war dude.
Yea, that was Americas first war of independence, we won that one. We are talking about our second war of independence. That would be the War of 1812, try again. In the War of 1812, we were defending our country from a foreign invasion. That's not considered a war of independence. The Civil War was about the Confederacy defending their country from a foreign invasion. Wait a minute, you might be correct.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 7:45:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
England sent advisors to the South. They were also blockade running to get supplies in and cotton out if my memory of history serves me correctly. I think it was halfway through the war before our blockades were actually working to starve the confederacy of war materials. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:03:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Funny (not really), but was thinking about that this morning..... My question: Will we see another Civil War inside our boundaries? If so, how soon? A conversation with my father a year or two ago, I told him I could see it happening within the next 10 years.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:08:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, France certainly took the opportunity to try an end run around the Monroe Doctrine. Bullshit. The Mexican people were crying out for an Imperial system of government. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:09:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever wonder what our population would be if the civil war never happened? Watched Gettysburg other day and couldn't help but think of all the extra people living today if all those people lived to have 3-10 kids each k stead of being killed in battle. We could easily be 3x the population today. Wheather that's a good thing or not I'll let someone else argue. Just food for thought. Ummmm...... seriously? Put down the pipe, bro. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:31:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the War of 1812, we were defending our country from a foreign invasion. That's not considered a war of independence. The Civil War was about the Confederacy defending their country from a foreign invasion. Wait a minute, you might be correct.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For all of our current making fun of France here in the US, we don't know our own history. France, threw in with US after the Battle of Saratoga. To the tune of about 13 billion dollars. (today's dollars), their Navy across the globe, and also blockading the Brits at "their" own ports in the new world, and putting pressure on around the world. (at this point France tossed in with "the rebels" and it was war.) I know they put "boots on the ground" in some cases 3000 French to assist 2000 US forces, such as in Newport. France did so, once they saw the rebellion had a chance, and because they wanted to weaken England's global grip. Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Proxie war? Yup. Wrong war dude.
Yea, that was Americas first war of independence, we won that one. We are talking about our second war of independence. That would be the War of 1812, try again. In the War of 1812, we were defending our country from a foreign invasion. That's not considered a war of independence. The Civil War was about the Confederacy defending their country from a foreign invasion. Wait a minute, you might be correct.
I am. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:32:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Because they were hoping we would do to ourselves what we want the Syrians to do... Which is to kill each other off.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:39:50 AM EDT
[#43]
It was too close to call. The North had resource advantage, and the south had determination and home field advantage (most of the time).
Nobody wants to side with the loser. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:42:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best book on CSS Alabama is "Memoirs of Service Afloat During the War Between the States" by the Captain Raphael Semmes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
England supplied the Confederacy with about 300,000 Enfield rifles. And as already mentioned they sold Confederate agents an unarmed fast ship, it was named the CSS Alabama. The Rebs armed it and turned it into a warship. The Alabama's record of commerce raiding still stands to this day. She destroyed, sank or captured more US ships than any other ship, ever. The US sued England after the war, over the Alabama totally trashing their commerce fleet, and actually won the case. It was known as the Alabama Claims and England paid 15.5 million in damages. Best book on CSS Alabama is "Memoirs of Service Afloat During the War Between the States" by the Captain Raphael Semmes. With apologies to all Yankee sympathizers here, one thing for sure, Raphael Semmes is the most successful American ships captain ever, when it comes to the sheer number of enemy ships he thumped.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:42:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ah the state of the world will be in when CW3 starts at home... China snapping up every thing they want that borders them. Israel having to defend its self from a Collection of allied Islamic extremest states that we helped build... Russia being Russia. Major EU economy's falling out do to a lack of products from the US/China. Canada having to try and support the masses of fleeing US citizens. Open war between north and south Korea. It will be a sad time and one the world is never likely to recover from. lol Yep, our country will forever be at peace with itself. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 8:46:53 AM EDT
[#46]
In a nutshell, it was geography and Northern industrial and military power that prevented direct foreign intervention.
First, the logistics of an involvement would have been difficult to manage because the European supply chain would have stretched across the Atlantic. Given the transportation technology of the time and the distances involved it would have been very difficult and expensive to land and supply sufficient troops to intervene directly with military forces on par with whatever force any European power could have mustered and set across the ocean. The naval power of the North meant that shipping largely went where the North wanted it to go - and no European power of the time had the naval power to challenge the North while simultaneously maintaining their overseas empires and their ability to fight other European powers as well. This also plays into the logistics problem since the North could guarantee that direct intervention on the side of the South would fail using naval power. The North also had the naval power to take the war to anyone trying to get involved on the side of the South as well. Finally, the North did not need military assistance from abroad nor did they need supply from abroad. The North could produce enough weapons and supplies to fight the war and hence did not require direct foreign intervention to win. While the South did have European allies at the start of the war none of those allies were militarily powerful enough nor was the South economically valuable enough to justify intervening on their side. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 9:09:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Great Britain was actually very close to intervening on behalf of the South before Antietam. The problem was public opinion back home in England and France. Antietam was the victory the Union needed to finally launch the Emancipation Proclamation as they had suffered nothing but defeats till that point. This changed the narrative of the war and made it harder for England and France to justify intervening to their own people as slavery was very unpopular back home. That, above all else, was Lincoln's motives for the EP. It worked and the South lost.
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Posted: 9/8/2013 9:15:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Selling war goods is common practice. Civil war is no exception. Free trade. Joining a side, pulling triggers, and making kills is different. There were some Canadians that fought. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 9:15:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Benito Juarez supported the Union. And unfortunately for Mexico, the U.S. ended up backing him against Emperor Maximilian. The brief period of Habsburg rule is probably the best period of rule that the country ever had. I guess for the U.S. a murderous socialist was better than a liberal monarch from a European dynasty. Anyhow, I recall reading something about a small amount of support for the Confederacy on the part of the 2nd Empire and also that a few Confederate formations still intact at the end of the war (sometime after Lee's surrender) were permitted to retreat into Mexico rather than surrender. I think they even ended up establishing a town or something near the border. |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 9:17:57 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Benito Juarez supported the Union. Considering he had a Hapsburg emperor installed by Louis Napoleon he wanted ousted and that the US Govt wanted him out too , why not? |
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