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Posted: 9/17/2004 11:15:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 1:36:28 PM EST by thebeekeeper1]
This surprising sentence came from the usual leftist, wannabe gun owner from my usual gun forum in Italy.

So - he added - no surprise what happened to Abu Graib.

I didn' t reply, because in this moment a couple of morons (one is the Italian guy that works in USA and say that 2nd Amendament should not grant anymore RKBA...) is harassing me for my support for Israel in every manner, I decided not to write there anymore, but to lurk and that's all.

This moron (22 years old, and he wants to became a political journalist, just this said it all...) at the end admitted that he has an US girlfriend and the father of this girl, who has been in the US military and is GWB supporter, said this thing, because most of the US soldiers in Vietnam were prisoners to whom the US Govt. asked to serve or to remain in prison...

OR is a misinterpretation of the girlfriend father said (probable, a man who cannot distinguish between Defensive Barrier in Israel and the East Germany Iron Curtain can surely misinterpret even the use of toilet paper...)

Or the father said really so, so no misinterpretation.

What were really the reality there? Are in the Internet Vietnam Veterans Association I can contact to know the truth?

Frankly, putting aside Mel Gibson and "We Were Soldiers", I read many things about soldiers in Vietnam, and my idea is that the war was wrong but the people there were right. Maybe SOME prisoners were forced to combat, but among conscripts and volunteers there was a fair high percentage of good common people. That is, the italian moron (and the mysterious US Military girlfriend father) is telling BULLSHITS...

Any comment?



<Pardon, but I'm not leaving that thread title stand. I know the strike feature won't work, but I WILL NOT look at the original title. I'm sorry, but this is very personal for me. --thebeekeeper1>
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:19:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:

Any comment?




Yeah.... My condolences, and prayers, to all you Italians, for the safe return of the two female hostages, in Iraq.........
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:19:36 AM EST
When viewed by todays standards, the war was wrong. However, at the time, letting the communists take Southeast Asia was not viewed as a good thing.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:26:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
When viewed by todays standards, the war was wrong. However, at the time, letting the communists take Southeast Asia was not viewed as a good thing.



I disagee. It was right then and it would be right again today.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:34:17 AM EST

The war itself was a bad idea for a number of reasons. (which I won't beat to death here)

But, ... the idea of stopping the communist infection in that land was right then, .. and now.

Centralized govt in general is evil (including our own) but communism is the worst of the lot. And one of the worst plagues that has ever hit this planet. It makes national socialism look sensible.



Zen

"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:15:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:

Any comment?




Yeah.... My condolences, and prayers, to all you Italians, for the safe return of the two female hostages, in Iraq.........



Thanks but it's a little bit OT...
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:22:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
When viewed by todays standards, the war was wrong. However, at the time, letting the communists take Southeast Asia was not viewed as a good thing.



I disagee. It was right then and it would be right again today.



BTW:

If I see the results, If I see consequences... I MUST consider the war wrong, especially if I compare to the sufferings of the US soldiers and consequences on US military. Only the Soviets made worst, going in Afghanistan...

If I read the comments of Che Guevara (Guevara said that disengagement in Vietnam was a victory for the marxists...) the war was right.

ANYWAY...

Folks... to be clear... I asked HOW COME THIS BULLSHIT (Vietnam soldiers were all criminals...) COME OUT!!! Not about if Vietnam War was right or wrong!

Thanks

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:31:23 PM EST
It is my understanding that sometimes a judge might offer a defendant the choice of Army or jailtime for minor offences but they DID NOT send prisoners to RVN.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:34:38 PM EST
Most people in Vietnam were volunteers, and those PTSD victims are the exception, not the norm.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:36:23 PM EST
Did you know John Kerry was in Viet Nam?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:43:37 PM EST
Fighting communism was right then and it would be right now. Individual freedom is worth fighting for during any time period in histroy.

No Vietnam Vets were not criminals by and large. Was there war crimes? Yes, but I challenge you to name a war where there wasn't war crimes. Hell, the Allies committed a war crime in WWII by telling the soldiers invading Normandy not to take prisoners.

And no, Vietnam vets were not prisoners asked to serve out their sentence. As a matter of fact, proportionally there were more volunteers in Vietnam than draftees.

Summary: The war was right, just poorly executed. The people were right for risking their lives for the freedom of others. It's a shitty thing the US public did the VN vets. They are only getting the recongition they deserve in the past several years.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:52:43 PM EST


Do we really have to go through all this shit again for the 9 millionth time?
People are divided. They will always be divided.
Some who were there thought it was right, and still do.
Some who were there thought it was wrong, and still do.
Most weren't there and have no clue, but have lots of opinions--based on who knows what.
I vote to kill the thread. I'm sick of hearing about it. It's history.


Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:54:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
This surprising sentence came from the usual leftist, wannabe gun owner from my usual gun forum in Italy.

So - he added - no surprise what happened to Abu Graib.

I didn' t reply, because in this moment a couple of morons (one is the Italian guy that works in USA and say that 2nd Amendament should not grant anymore RKBA...) is harassing me for my support for Israel in every manner, I decided not to write there anymore, but to lurk and that's all.

This moron (22 years old, and he wants to became a political journalist, just this said it all...) at the end admitted that he has an US girlfriend and the father of this girl, who has been in the US military and is GWB supporter, said this thing, because most of the US soldiers in Vietnam were prisoners to whom the US Govt. asked to serve or to remain in prison...

OR is a misinterpretation of the girlfriend father said (probable, a man who cannot distinguish between Defensive Barrier in Israel and the East Germany Iron Curtain can surely misinterpret even the use of toilet paper...)

Or the father said really so, so no misinterpretation.

What were really the reality there? Are in the Internet Vietnam Veterans Association I can contact to know the truth?

Frankly, putting aside Mel Gibson and "We Were Soldiers", I read many things about soldiers in Vietnam, and my idea is that the war was wrong but the people there were right. Maybe SOME prisoners were forced to combat, but among conscripts and volunteers there was a fair high percentage of good common people. That is, the italian moron (and the mysterious US Military girlfriend father) is telling BULLSHITS...

Any comment?



For them, Fuck em! For you, go to the library and get some good books on the War, talk "directly" to Vets. The Internet is not the place to learn about this war. ( Burkett's "Stolen Valor" is the best IMO )
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:23:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 1:24:49 PM EST by PaoloAR15]
I need to fill this gap about Vietnam war...Thanks everybody...

Ah yes... in this VERY moment I am posting from ISRAEL... no joke, folks....

See ya


Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:33:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:54:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
(one is the Italian guy that works in USA and say that 2nd Amendament should not grant anymore RKBA...)



He's right and he doesn't know it. The 2nd does NOT grant the RKBA. It's an inherent right that's merely recognized by the 2nd.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:28:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
... because most of the US soldiers in Vietnam were prisoners to whom the US Govt. asked to serve or to remain in prison...


Fundamentally wrong.

(The movie The Dirty Dozen, notwithstanding!!)

There were occasionally situations where some young guy would get into some form of minor trouble and a judge would give them a choice of going to jail or going into the military.

However, that practice originated long before the war and was simply a way of trying to help to person straighten out their life rather than becoming a lifetime criminal.

I haven’t a clue what the numbers of these individuals would be, but I’m confident it would be very, very small.

The vast majority of guys in RVN were just average Joes off the street.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:33:04 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:49:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
I need to fill this gap about Vietnam war...Thanks everybody...

Ah yes... in this VERY moment I am posting from ISRAEL... no joke, folks....

See ya





As Crowboy said, you will not receive what you are looking for here. Our guys, with very few exceptions (as in any war situation), served as honorably, courageously, and admirably as any group of soldiers, in any war, at any time in history. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is ill-informed, fucked in the head, or has an agenda in favor of Communism--or more likely, all three. Please don't ever impugn a Vietnam Veteran in my presence.

I hope they will receive their due regards before they all die.

VN Vets--some of us know what you did for the Country--and appreciate it beyond the ability to express with words. Thank you all--every one of you are my heroes, regardless of your job there. God bless.




What I was looking for here was historical FACTS to say to the moron that he is FUCKING WRONG about Vietnam vets and Vietnam war, and that instead look for a job as political journalist he should find a job as water closet cleaner.

That's all.

I did find what I needed, and even more: book concerning WHO was really fighting the war.
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