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Posted: 2/15/2012 11:51:18 AM EDT
Here in Alaska if you are carrying you are required by law to make this fact know immediately if you are contacted by an LEO. This sounds straight forward and I dont really have a problem with this part of the law. It sounds straight forward but something happened the other day that made me realize how ambiguous this really is. I realize most of you dont live in Alaska but I thought a discussion with the Hive Input would be benificial.

Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:
Any person 21 years of age or older may carry a handgun concealed on their person provided that, when contacted by a police officer, informs the officer of that possession and allows the police officer to secure the handgun for the duration of that contact.

Here's the story. I own a jewelry store and generally CC when I am working. The other day a gentleman came in and as I am working on what ever it was he brought in I ask what type of work he did. He informed me that he was a detective with the local PD. After which I ask if I was required to inform him of my concealed carry status during our 'unofficial' 'non-LEO' encounter. His answer was YES. I was required to inform 'ANYTIME' I knew the person was a LEO unless I was known to the LEO and he/she had been informed of my permit and to assume I am carrying anytime you see me.
I told him I certainly understand the 'official' contact aspect but if an officer came in to make a purchase I would not be comfortable informing him/her infront of other customers of my status. Also brings up the issue of undercover officers. If I encounter an officer that is working UC ...should I inform him imediately that I am carrying? That seems like a poor choice for all.

I couldnt really find a clear cut statute on this ...perhaps my google fu is weak but here at Arf.... the hive knows all things I thought a discussion would be in order.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 11:57:09 AM EDT
In MI. you have to notify the police during any official act being performed by the officer.

Pulled over or if he is officially detaining you for any reason.



Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:07:06 PM EDT
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2012 3:27:08 PM EDT by RevMetric]
Just a thought... but you could have some inexpensive cards printed up to use as a discrete way of alerting any LEO in your store. Maybe something that reads "This is to satisfy AK state law requiring me to disclose my CC firearm. I carry it for business protection and prefer not to verbally disclose in front of my other customers."

You could word it however you wanted or even ask some LEO the best way to discretely get the point across. Once you discover your customer is an LEO, you could just hand them the card without alerting other customers.

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:13:43 PM EDT
It is the OP's jewelry store. The OFF DUTY cop should have assumed he is armed, and if off duty, there is not an official "interaction".

And I certainly would not disarm myself for a cop in the store for non-police business.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:15:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
It is the OP's jewelry store. The OFF DUTY cop should have assumed he is armed, and if off duty, there is not an official "interaction".

And I certainly would not disarm myself for a cop in the store for non-police business.


Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:15:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RevMetric:
Just a thought... but you could have some inexpensive cards printed up to use as a discrete way of alerting any LEO in your store? Maybe something that reads "This is to satisfy AK state law requiring me disclose my CC firearm. I carry it for business protection and prefer not to verbally disclose in front of my other customers."

You could word it however you wanted or even ask some LEO the best way to discretely get the point across. Once you discover your customer is an LEO, you could just hand them the card without alerting other customers.



That is an excellent idea! WTF didnt I think of that

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:17:00 PM EDT
I don't know shit about Alaskan law, but my first impression is that the detective in question is a fag.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:19:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
It is the OP's jewelry store. The OFF DUTY cop should have assumed he is armed, and if off duty, there is not an official "interaction".

And I certainly would not disarm myself for a cop in the store for non-police business.


I'd go with this. If not official business, piss off.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:19:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Here in Alaska if you are carrying you are required by law to make this fact know immediately if you are contacted by an LEO. This sounds straight forward and I dont really have a problem with this part of the law. It sounds straight forward but something happened the other day that made me realize how ambiguous this really is. I realize most of you dont live in Alaska but I thought a discussion with the Hive Input would be benificial.

Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:
Any person 21 years of age or older may carry a handgun concealed on their person provided that, when contacted by a police officer, informs the officer of that possession and allows the police officer to secure the handgun for the duration of that contact.

Here's the story. I own a jewelry store and generally CC when I am working. The other day a gentleman came in and as I am working on what ever it was he brought in I ask what type of work he did. He informed me that he was a detective with the local PD. After which I ask if I was required to inform him of my concealed carry status during our 'unofficial' 'non-LEO' encounter. His answer was YES. I was required to inform 'ANYTIME' I knew the person was a LEO unless I was known to the LEO and he/she had been informed of my permit and to assume I am carrying anytime you see me.
I told him I certainly understand the 'official' contact aspect but if an officer came in to make a purchase I would not be comfortable informing him/her infront of other customers of my status. Also brings up the issue of undercover officers. If I encounter an officer that is working UC ...should I inform him imediately that I am carrying? That seems like a poor choice for all.

I couldnt really find a clear cut statute on this ...perhaps my google fu is weak but here at Arf.... the hive knows all things I thought a discussion would be in order.


Poorly worded law, and as I read it the officer is interpreting it literally (and legally). I'd complain to your lawmakers and have them look at making the intent of the law clear .
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:21:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.


As shocking as it sounds some police dont know the law. Check with your AG.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:23:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
I don't know shit about Alaskan law, but my first impression is that the detective in question is a fag.


Concur

He is not there on official business and is off duty. No need to say shit, verbally or on a card.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:25:04 PM EDT
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:32:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.

This information is false.
If you are contacted for official business, you have to inform.
' If you meet, and discuss the weather, or little league baseball, that is NOT official business.
Also, if you arein your home ( owned or rened) on or about your property, or place of business, where you have inherent rights, you do NOT have to inform.

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:34:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.

Again, NOT ON YOUR OWNED, RENTED, or LEASED property.
And NOT when passing pleasantries, discussing weather, holiday shopping, or motorcycle repairs.

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:42:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.



I agree .. common sense is always the best policy that doesnt always work with an officer that doesnt know the law.

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullpower:
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.

Again, NOT ON YOUR OWNED, RENTED, or LEASED property.
And NOT when passing pleasantries, discussing weather, holiday shopping, or motorcycle repairs.



That was always my understanding. Thanks for the input Fullpower

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2012 12:58:12 PM EDT by bloodsport2885]
Bullshit. If he's not on the clock and displaying a badge you have no duty to inform him. Are you supposed to ask EVERY customer if they would like to know you're concealed carrying? Even Dayquon the local thug while he's buying a new chain?

You made contact with a customer.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 12:58:47 PM EDT
so if you don't disclose and are caught, what is the penalty?

I always take that into consideration when these things come up.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:37:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
so if you don't disclose and are caught, what is the penalty?

I always take that into consideration when these things come up.


Loss of CCL and charged with concealled weapon

Im on the boat with the guys that say if its YOUR property and/or its 'unofficial' you have no obligation to inform. I will however do more research to clear this matter up.

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:42:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.

I would tell said officer that ANYTIME that he is coming into your store that he MUST call ahead and be specific as to when he will be there. You can then disarm yourself before he gets there and avoid issue with him. Otherwise, he should not be welcome in your store, period.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:46:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2012 1:55:04 PM EDT by dougez1]
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.


What law you reading?
My friend is a Trooper. I asked him this very question. It is not neccesary when we are not on "official" business. Saying hi, or having lunch or just shooting the shit is not official contact. I also regularly see one of the police Lt.'s here. He even sold me one of his handguns that I carry concealed. He doesn't ask, and I don't disclose. I think I know which detective your talking about.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:55:52 PM EDT
In TX The General guideline is, if they ask to see ID, you give DL and CHL
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:03:54 PM EDT
The law says "contact". Until they detain you or talk to you in an official manner, they're just customers.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:16:36 PM EDT
That's why I love GA, absolutely no need to disclose, ever....
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:18:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2012 2:52:27 PM EDT by Kodan]
Originally Posted By dougez1:
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.


What law you reading?
My friend is a Trooper. I asked him this very question. It is not neccesary when we are not on "official" business. Saying hi, or having lunch or just shooting the shit is not official contact. I also regularly see one of the police Lt.'s here. He even sold me one of his handguns that I carry concealed. He doesn't ask, and I don't disclose. I think I know which detective your talking about.


Yep Ive got friends that are LEO's and its never been an issue. They just assumed I was...they never ask .. I never tell. Even had a LEO loan me a carry piece to see if I liked it. Im not looking to diss one of the Detectives so I wont disclose who it was unless you come by my shop. The comments he had just made me start wondering if I was ill informed so ..... here I am.

Found the Statue /doc/{@7628}?next]linky
Sec. 18.65.750. Possession and display of permit.

(a) A permittee shall carry the permit at all times the permittee carries a concealed handgun. The permittee shall display both the license and other proper identification when asked to do so by a peace officer at any time.

(b) Whenever a permittee who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by a peace officer, the permittee shall immediately inform the peace officer that the permittee is carrying a concealed handgun under the permit.

(c) During a contact with a permittee, a peace officer may secure a handgun, or direct that it be secured, during the duration of the contact if the peace officer determines that the action is necessary for the safety of any person, including the peace officer, present. The permittee shall submit to the securing of the handgun.

(d) In this section, "contacted by a peace officer" means stopped, detained, questioned, or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official purpose.

(e) A person who violates (a) of this section is guilty of a violation and upon conviction may be punished by a fine of not more than $100.

(f) A person who violates (b) or (c) of this section is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.



Guess that answers THAT question... thanks for all the help guys.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:24:36 PM EDT
This funny, in that I asked this same type of question several weeks ago here in Alaska. If a person working in a store has a CCW on, are they required to inform a LEO that they have a weapon on, if the LEO comes in to conact 'normal' business. At that time no one wanted to answer that question or passed it on to somene else. Several AG and assistance AG's were asked both on the State and Federal level. It appears that this has not come up in the past and the 'general' response was no, you are not required to inform the LEO.
If they contact you in connection with their job, then by all means let them know that you are CCW.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:25:17 PM EDT
Why and how does the officer ID himself as one? Why would he present his badge everytime he encounters the public when he is off duty? Think about it: groceries, hardware store, etc. He's going to ID himself so you can satisfy the law?
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:27:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.


He's a cop - what does he know? Seriously common sense which you seem to lack dictates that you inform when official contact is made. You don't tap a cop on uniform buying a burger at McDonalds just to tell him you're carrying, do you?

I bet most wannabes would.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:34:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Also brings up the issue of undercover officers. If I encounter an officer that is working UC ...should I inform him imediately that I am carrying? That seems like a poor choice for all.

Much hilarity would ensue: Oh, Hay Occifer, nice to see you out of uniform, I almost forgot I'm supposed to tell you I am legally armed because YOU'RE A COP.

Obey. The. Law.

Now pick up that can.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 3:48:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By Mach:
so if you don't disclose and are caught, what is the penalty?

I always take that into consideration when these things come up.


Loss of CCL and charged with concealled weapon

Im on the boat with the guys that say if its YOUR property and/or its 'unofficial' you have no obligation to inform. I will however do more research to clear this matter up.



I thought you didn't need a CCW permit in AK?
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:23:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 12:28:05 AM EDT by dougez1]
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By dougez1:
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.


What law you reading?
My friend is a Trooper. I asked him this very question. It is not neccesary when we are not on "official" business. Saying hi, or having lunch or just shooting the shit is not official contact. I also regularly see one of the police Lt.'s here. He even sold me one of his handguns that I carry concealed. He doesn't ask, and I don't disclose. I think I know which detective your talking about.


Yep Ive got friends that are LEO's and its never been an issue. They just assumed I was...they never ask .. I never tell. Even had a LEO loan me a carry piece to see if I liked it. Im not looking to diss one of the Detectives so I wont disclose who it was unless you come by my shop. The comments he had just made me start wondering if I was ill informed so ..... here I am.

Found the Statue /doc/{@7628}?next]linky
Sec. 18.65.750. Possession and display of permit.

(a) A permittee shall carry the permit at all times the permittee carries a concealed handgun. The permittee shall display both the license and other proper identification when asked to do so by a peace officer at any time.

(b) Whenever a permittee who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by a peace officer, the permittee shall immediately inform the peace officer that the permittee is carrying a concealed handgun under the permit.

(c) During a contact with a permittee, a peace officer may secure a handgun, or direct that it be secured, during the duration of the contact if the peace officer determines that the action is necessary for the safety of any person, including the peace officer, present. The permittee shall submit to the securing of the handgun.

(d) In this section, "contacted by a peace officer" means stopped, detained, questioned, or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official purpose.

(e) A person who violates (a) of this section is guilty of a violation and upon conviction may be punished by a fine of not more than $100.

(f) A person who violates (b) or (c) of this section is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.



Guess that answers THAT question... thanks for all the help guys.


I think (d) explains the official part pretty clear.
Hey, those are nice earrings, can I see them, doesn't constitute official purpose or contact at all.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 12:52:33 AM EDT by Ragnaroc]
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By Mach:
so if you don't disclose and are caught, what is the penalty?

I always take that into consideration when these things come up.


Loss of CCL and charged with concealled weapon

Im on the boat with the guys that say if its YOUR property and/or its 'unofficial' you have no obligation to inform. I will however do more research to clear this matter up.



I thought you didn't need a CCW permit in AK?


I was under the impression that we didn't. I remember hearing(not from whom) that anchorage had passed it's own concealed carry permit requirement but legally can't, and that it has never been challenged. Could be complete bullshit.
And, I only stayed at the Executive Suites last night.

Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Firebird69:

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.

I would tell said officer that ANYTIME that he is coming into your store that he MUST call ahead and be specific as to when he will be there. You can then disarm yourself before he gets there and avoid issue with him. Otherwise, he should not be welcome in your store, period.

Actually you could go further. The shop is a private place of business. You could inform said Defective that unless he is on
official business that he in not allowed in the store.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 1:02:37 AM EDT
The cop is wrong. Inform for official contacts only.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 1:34:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By dougez1:
Originally Posted By Rabon:
By Alaskan Law you are required to tell just about anyone who works for the city or state and holds any position Dog Catcher or higher. I generally use a little common sense and it seems to work well.


What law you reading?
My friend is a Trooper. I asked him this very question. It is not neccesary when we are not on "official" business. Saying hi, or having lunch or just shooting the shit is not official contact. I also regularly see one of the police Lt.'s here. He even sold me one of his handguns that I carry concealed. He doesn't ask, and I don't disclose. I think I know which detective your talking about.


Yep Ive got friends that are LEO's and its never been an issue. They just assumed I was...they never ask .. I never tell. Even had a LEO loan me a carry piece to see if I liked it. Im not looking to diss one of the Detectives so I wont disclose who it was unless you come by my shop. The comments he had just made me start wondering if I was ill informed so ..... here I am.

Found the Statue /doc/{@7628}?next]linky
Sec. 18.65.750. Possession and display of permit.

(a) A permittee shall carry the permit at all times the permittee carries a concealed handgun. The permittee shall display both the license and other proper identification when asked to do so by a peace officer at any time.

(b) Whenever a permittee who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by a peace officer, the permittee shall immediately inform the peace officer that the permittee is carrying a concealed handgun under the permit.

(c) During a contact with a permittee, a peace officer may secure a handgun, or direct that it be secured, during the duration of the contact if the peace officer determines that the action is necessary for the safety of any person, including the peace officer, present. The permittee shall submit to the securing of the handgun.

(d) In this section, "contacted by a peace officer" means stopped, detained, questioned, or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official purpose.

(e) A person who violates (a) of this section is guilty of a violation and upon conviction may be punished by a fine of not more than $100.

(f) A person who violates (b) or (c) of this section is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.



Guess that answers THAT question... thanks for all the help guys.


What the law states is:

"Whenever a permittee who is carrying a concealed handgun is stopped, detained, questioned, or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official purpose by a peace officer, the permittee shall immediately inform the peace officer that the permittee is carrying a concealed handgun under the permit."

The latter "or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official purpose" is not a catch-all for all contacts with an officer, it restricts to contacts of offocial purposes. An on-duty cop going shopping for jewelry for his SO does not appear to be within the requirements of that code.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:19:02 AM EDT
You don't have to say anything in Indiana.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 11:16:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ragnaroc:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By Mach:
so if you don't disclose and are caught, what is the penalty?

I always take that into consideration when these things come up.


Loss of CCL and charged with concealled weapon

Im on the boat with the guys that say if its YOUR property and/or its 'unofficial' you have no obligation to inform. I will however do more research to clear this matter up.



I thought you didn't need a CCW permit in AK?


I was under the impression that we didn't. I remember hearing(not from whom) that anchorage had passed it's own concealed carry permit requirement but legally can't, and that it has never been challenged. Could be complete bullshit.
And, I only stayed at the Executive Suites last night.




Correct... You dont NEED a permit in AK but its nice to have. Makes some LEO' s feel better about the idea. Also helps you out a little if you wind up infront of Grang Jury for having to use your weapon.

Link Posted: 2/16/2012 11:18:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Pogo55:

Originally Posted By Firebird69:

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.

I would tell said officer that ANYTIME that he is coming into your store that he MUST call ahead and be specific as to when he will be there. You can then disarm yourself before he gets there and avoid issue with him. Otherwise, he should not be welcome in your store, period.

Actually you could go further. The shop is a private place of business. You could inform said Defective that unless he is on
official business that he in not allowed in the store.


Pissing off the Popo in a small town is never a good idea
Owning a Jewelry store and pissing them off is REALLY NOT GOOD. I actually have PBA stickers in the front window of my shop.

Link Posted: 2/16/2012 11:34:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By RevMetric:
Just a thought... but you could have some inexpensive cards printed up to use as a discrete way of alerting any LEO in your store? Maybe something that reads "This is to satisfy AK state law requiring me disclose my CC firearm. I carry it for business protection and prefer not to verbally disclose in front of my other customers."

You could word it however you wanted or even ask some LEO the best way to discretely get the point across. Once you discover your customer is an LEO, you could just hand them the card without alerting other customers.



That is an excellent idea! WTF didnt I think of that



Because you're not bat-shit crazy? I'd be contacting the states attorney for clarification of that very poorly worded statute, since you are in a line of business that may put you into contact with law enforcement in a customer capacity.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 11:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Originally Posted By Pogo55:

Originally Posted By Firebird69:

Originally Posted By Kodan:
Same here but the detective was saying ANY interacation with LEO's on or off duty required notification.

I would tell said officer that ANYTIME that he is coming into your store that he MUST call ahead and be specific as to when he will be there. You can then disarm yourself before he gets there and avoid issue with him. Otherwise, he should not be welcome in your store, period.

Actually you could go further. The shop is a private place of business. You could inform said Defective that unless he is on
official business that he in not allowed in the store.


Pissing off the Popo in a small town is never a good idea
Owning a Jewelry store and pissing them off is REALLY NOT GOOD. I actually have PBA stickers in the front window of my shop.


Appears you have no choice. Do as your told civilian.
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