Posted: 12/15/2004 10:58:46 AM EDT
| Right now waste of time, with all the corporate scandals that have recently surfaced accounting is a field that is paying top dollar.......I was a computer science major in college in 93'........dropped out and am now in retail........talk about bad timing..... |
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Don't want a CS degree, just some courses to supplement my knowledge base. Occasionally I meet someone who is doubling up with ACCT and CS; they claim IT Auditing is hot. I have noticed that accounting is ALL IT now. Think about ERP systems (SAP, etc) Highly technical. Supposedly there are some CPA's making decent bread because their computer skills are top notch as well. I WILL sit for the CPA exam next year. I will pursue the CPA license until I get it. Any CS/ACCT's out there? Ric |
| I am getting an MBA with an emphasis in accounting with the intent of taking the CPA exam when I am done. I think that a IS/ACCT degree would be a good idea. Like you said, accounting is very IT driven. People who are strong in both are getting good jobs from what I hear. |
Depending on the classes, it's worth it. In addition to what you mentioned there's money in troubleshooting and converting big accounting databases like SAP, and even in dealing with small company troubles with Great Plains Dynamics or Peachtree desktop type stuff. The ability to create customizable operations and reports in big databases is another useful skill. We needed probably 10 different techs when our office converted to the corporate SAP standard a year ago. |
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Obsolete in 5 years. The last layoffs around here were in software. If you are not doing the job and using the newer tools, technology, languages, methods, and processes will pass you by. Do a little digging. Using the following search in yahoo: computer science degree obsolete this article is the second hit. Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage
See the other articles that come up. A bunch of them were schools that were trying to convince the students that the intellect and though processes taught to them would not become obsolete (unlike their degree). Signed..... A certified software programmer with a mechanical engineering degree working as a mechanical engineer. |
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CPA here - IT is an important part of our practice, and we try to keep up with the newest technologies. Quite a few smaller clients want to set up networks, JIT inventory control, in addition to needing help with websites, etc. I'm pursuing a CS degree on my own time as well....just another item to offer our clients. HTH |
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I'm a CPA. Been doing it for 14 years. I am amazed how many doors opened to me with my minor in...... ENGLISH. Hiring managers LOVE people who can communicate effectively. My advice would be take some business writing courses. Take something that rounds you out as a person - accounting is learned ON THE JOB, NOT in the classroom. Hiring managers want to know that you are a nice person to work with. |
No, it's not a waste of time, although instead of focusing on CS you might want to take courses in business information systems. |
With Sarbanes Oxley, this is good advice. |
+2  ETA - I graduated in 1990, have been in corporate accounting for 6 years and public accounting for 8. If you're an employee, corporate pays a heckuva lot better and generally has less headaches. In public accounting, if you're a partner you can make a lot of money, but have a lot of stress as well. If you're an employee of a public firm, you don't get paid much, but get a lot of experience that corporations want. |
Alright, thread hijack in progress... Where do you guys suggest getting a start at in order to become a CPA? I am trying to find a job now and I am amazed at how "in demand" public accounting experience, especially Big 4 experience is. I would love to work for a smaller firm in order to get exposure to tax, audit, consulting etc but I also think that working for a big firm must have some pretty solid advantages (re - jobs after life in a big firm). At this point, I just want to get the best start that I can w/in the profession. Advice is appreciated! |
I'd recommend every CPA candidate do some public. Big Four firms are gonna have you SO specialized - e.g. doing cash audits for insurance companies with over $2 billion in revenues - that I think its detrimental. I would go for a large local firm where you get tax, audit, compilations, review, and consulting work. |
See my edited post above. Big 4 experience is great (so I hear) as long as you can play politics well. I started out of college working for a large regional firm, then took a controller position in corporate after 1 year. Here I am 15 years later, living in the town I want to live in, working in a small CPA office (2 CPAs, three employees), where I get to work closely with my clients, and with the exception of tax season, try to keep my week at 40 hrs (including golfing with clients, etc). Kind of depends on what you want for a career track. 15 years ago, I figured at this point I'd be living in a big city with tons of income. However, I wouldn't trade that for what I have now. Good luck! |
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If you want money, go private industry. If you want variety, go into public accounting. Like previous posts said, if you get with a Big 4 ( or 3 or 2 - whatever it is today after mergers and blow ups), you will do a very small slice of work, generally in audit. I never liked anything about auditing, so I focused on tax. With a decent sized public accounting firm, you can work on all sorts of stuff - general accounting, audited, tax planning/prep, business mergers / acquisitions, estate planning, controller services, etc. It gives you time to see what area really interests you. A CPA doesn't really describe what you do. The general public hears CPA and automatically thinks taxes or accounting, but my first year at a CPA firm I knew more about taxes than some of the partners, because they only did audits (in fact I had to help them with their own returns). A CPA could be a budget specialist, or a CFO/controller, or an auditor, etc. Get exposure to as many facets as you can, then focus on what you like. Demand for accountants is always there. |
I call bullshit on this. You can drop me in front of a machine with a new programming language and I can write good, well designed code in short order. Knowing HOW to program is MUCH more important than knowing any "technology". Problem is, most people are "programmers," not software engineers. There is a HUGE difference. Anyone can be a code monkey. |
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My wife is woring on her Masters in Accounting right now and will finish by end of next year. She already passed all 4 sections of the CPA exam and has work in accounting field for past 8 years and total of 1 year internship in public accounting. She plans on working for one of the major public accounting firms after finishing her master's program and currently has a standing offer from PWC. Her plan is to work in the public accounting field for 3 years to get experience and become "experienced senior" then move into controler position in public firm for about 3-5 years and get enough experience and exposure for CFO position. Public accounting is a hot field right now and they can't get enough people in some parts of the country. IMHO if you want to work as controller or CFO in future you'll have to have public accounting experience. Computer knowledge is good to have but not necessary as IT and accounting department will always be separate and knowledge in one will not be all that much help in the other. |
3 years won't get you to experienced senior. You typically spend 3 years as a staff and then get promoted to senior. Once you're promoted you spend another year before you are an experienced senior. That's at least 4 years. Even as an experienced senior she won't have much experience at a level other than executing detailed audit procedures (i.e. won't have experience planning or scoping audits, budgeting, coordinating with clients, researching tough technical issues, preparing financial statements, and a number of other things that are critical to a controller's job). If your wife leaves as an experienced senior she'll probably be able to land an associate controller position at a small SEC registrant but most probably won't be qualified to be a controller - most registrant controllers are former public accounting managers or senior managers (6 to 12 years in public). Count on spending a few years as an associate controller before being considered for promotion to a controller, and then a longer time at controller to be a CFO. There are good reasons most CFOs are in their late 40s or 50s: seasoning, contacts, and experience. Don't want to flame, just want to make sure your wife's expectations are reasonable and achievable. |
True, but systems are only one component of Sarbox/404. The other, and I would argue more pervasive component for a CPA in public accounting, is manual controls over financial reporting. I would still recommend taking as many IT classes as you have time and $ for. |
That's where I am now. I'm on the cusp of partnership, and suddenly I realized that it's not what I'm looking for. <sigh> But I wouldn't trade the last 11 years of experience for anything. |
6530, Yes, you are correct there are some steps I left to keep my rely short but what I can... my wife is aggressive and smart  To top it off, she's learning the office politics thing at her current job |
I've not worked for a small firm so I can't speak to the advantages or disadvantages. I've worked solely at a large firm (now the largest firm in the workd). I can say that working for a big firm definitely has advantages, including a huge resource and experience base from which to draw. Big firms also have a whole lot of smart, motivated people working there. Unfortunately all those smart, motivated people turn over very quickly. Internally we refer to my firm as "the world's largest training organization." Public accounting experience is in demand and will be in demand for some time. The skills that allow success in public allow success in any career, including but not limited to: ambition, drive, organization, technical knowledge, the ability to make decisions based on incomplete facts, budgeting and project management. documentation, oral and written communication, the ability to meld a group of individuals into a team, the ability to manage a seemingly infinite and constantly changing number of tasks simultaneously, and a polished manner. These skills, taken together, present a very attractive package for any employer. You can develop these skills in the context of any job, but you'll get there much more quickly in public than you will in most other places. We've always referred to years in public accounting like dog years - 1 year in public equals 7 years anyplace else. I admittedly have a bias, but I would argue that you may be better off with a large organization. Many employers have specialized programs that allow you to rotate through more than one area in the first few years of employment (i.e. accounting/finance, lending, etc.) to enable you to see more than one part of the business. During that time you'll meet & have a chance to know a number of people in the organization and you'll learn of opportunities that exist - opportunities that you will be able to take advantage of. Those opportunities will lead to other opportunities and so on and so forth. An advantage of working for a large organization is that you can rotate around into completely different jobs over the course of a 30-year career and you wouldn't have done the the same thing for more than a few years. I know quite a few people who have done that. And since you don't leave the organization you don't get set back on any benefits or seniority. OK, last post in this thread for tonight. |
First off..... CS is not the same as IT CS people do a hell of a lot more than sit around and run websites. but, as said before, most non-IT CS people are just code monkeys...and yes, THEIR job skills may be obsolete in 5 years if they don't keep up with the latest-and-greatest. Also, companies are beginning to figure out that hiring a bunch of half-educated indians who are working while the rest of the company is sleeping, is not necessarily the most efficient way to get things done, and are beginning to bring some of the CS jobs back from overseas. |
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I'm presently studying accounting; I'll finish my MAcc in April '05. Doing an internship with "the world's largest accounting firm" this summer in Kansas City. I'm going Big 4 for the experience and the ability to have the name on my resume. Like others have said, big 4 experience presents a very attractive package to potential employers. Another example of the benefits of big-firm public experience--my wife's aunt is a partner at a law firm and does mostly criminal defense cases; any witness they bring in about money/accounting stuff has to have big 4 experience, simply becasue it implies knowledge and credibility. I don't know that I'll stay in the public arena, but the chance for the experience is worth the suffering (I hope ).
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I sent a resume to a local firm. My main professor told me they were hiring. I have ten years work experience on my resume. The first thing the guy asks me is, "How old are you?" That's a stupid question to ask, and illegal. I wouldn't work at that firm based on his ill-concieved approach at interviewing. And, the pay offered is 28 to 32K? That sucks |
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Extra knowledge of computers is always a good thing. But the job market in IT really sucks and has for about 3 years. With luck the regulations related to accounting will keep jobs in your field in the USA. But don't think that having a CPA is a guarantee of lifelong employment. It isn't and nothing is! In 10-20 years you will be making very good money and will have grown accustom to it. You will have a wife and children, which will make it harder for you to learn a new skill outside of work. This is when you will be the most vulnerable. If you lose your job it is likely because times have changed and that skill is not in demand. So you'll have to learn a new skill and start at a pay scale closer to entry level. Anyone who tells you offshore outsource is not threat to your job is full of crap. My company's fastest growing business is outsourcing IT departments and shipping the work overseas. We will be laying off about 30 out of 130 people next quarter at this client. Nationally we will likely move 500-1000 jobs offshore next year. (Yes, I work for my worst enemy) The key to survival in the future job market is to have a wide skill base and be willing and able to change careers. There will always be job opportunities in the USA but you will need to have the right skills to get them and at an ever increasing pace the job market will change. Four years ago IT was the hottest career path in the USA and today it's pretty weak. So expect to have to change careers, not jobs but CAREERS, often. Take the computer classes now and make a point to take a night class every other year for the rest of your life. Good jobs can be found if you have an uncommon mix of skills and find the right opportunity. I'm starting a two year program next month. Just because I have a good paying job today is no reason to expect I'll have one later. Working for this company my number will come up someday. ETA Just because offshort outsourcing is hot in IT today, doesn't mean it will not be expanded to other fields later. |
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I was in your situation about 16 years ago (how did THAT happen?). I started off with a B.S. in Accounting with a minor in Computer Science and started a job as an accountant right out of college. After a couple of weeks of that I figured out that I had made a big mistake. I found working as an accountant to be an intolerable job. The work sucks and the hours suck. I got no job satisfaction out of it. Fortunately, I was able to gradually move into more of a Computer Science job. Now I have a great job writing code. I love to go to work every day and stay late some nights just because I'm having fun. I also found a niche that is not going to be outsourced. The pay is pretty decent too. So what does this mean to you? Not much I would suggest you go ahead and go for the extra CS classes. It can't hurt you and it is always a good thing to have options. Taking the CS classes now may open up doors for you later. It is also very likely that the skills you learn in the CS courses will help you in your job as an accountant. If you do end up working more in CS, it is extremely important that you keep your skills up to date. I work with some code monkeys that only know the "hot" tool of 5 years ago and they are all going to be unemployed soon if they don't update their skills. I mentor a lot of younger employees and I always tell them that as a developer, they will have to learn to drink from the fire hose and constantly learn new technology if they want to keep their jobs. Some of them are up to it, some of them are not. Good luck! |
Having just gone through this verbal rectal exam and handing in my signed executive summaries of my companies logical and change control summaries I can attest that the 24yr old auditors who were working for us were pulling in just under 6 figures. I would get your PMP cert. THat will open up doors in many fields too. |