User Panel
Posted: 6/5/2008 1:18:30 PM EDT
I had lunch today with one of the original Interceptor designers. He said that Dragonskin got a raw deal from the Army. He said that they lied and that it is better than what they are issuing today.
I asked why they would lie. He said they would lie because replacing all the armor would would cost $2B up front and $300M per year. Discuss... |
|
Dragonskin has a questionable history in their dealings from what I've heard.
|
|
Yeah right...
Because the issues with stopping 7.62x54, and with shrapnel potentially bypassing the layered plates had NOTHING to do with it, right? It failed the tests, period... But, like 'blended metal' ammo and hydrogen-electrolysis car gadgets, the legend lives on.... |
|
Could the fabric of reality survive blended metal ammo fired at Dragonskin armor? |
|
|
I think DragonSkin was a good design idea, but wasn't executed as well as it could've been.
|
|
Simple...
the DOD does not always select the "best" gear but rather the one that meets the specs for the lowest cost... IMHO the current system is better than "dragon skin" |
|
Thew army has a history of loading the deck on testing new equipment. Maybe you have all heard of the M-16?
|
|
I lol'ed |
|
|
Fixed it for you . |
|
|
Dragonskin may have worked exactly as advertised, but at twice the weight and twice the price, that doesn't make it better than the current gear. |
|
|
I want to see dragonskin tested by low oblique shots.
you know, where it is weakest, not direct shots where it is strongest. |
|
Smells like bullshit. |
|
|
That was just protectionist mentallity. To my knowledge the FAL never failed to perform, Mil brass just wanted a welfare contract for Springfield Armory and a U.S. made weapon. |
||
|
All body armor is a trade-off of size, weight, stiffness/flexibility, comfort, etc versus protection.
Dragon skin AKAIK trades off some protection for the ability to better cover a larger percentage of the user, and for greater flexibility and comfort. "Better" to the Army is in whoever/however the specs are written. "Better" in the real world is how effectively it mitigates the prevalent threats, which may or may not have anything to do with how the specs are written. As an example, if one guy sustains injuries from a 7.62x54 round that interceptor might have stopped, but in exchange 10 fewer serious injuries are sustained from IEDs, or 7.62x39 strikes to areas left unprotected by the interceptors then dragon skin would be "better" IMO. In that example, being a slave to the 7.62x54 spec is detrimental to overall protection (not saying its true). IMO when body armor became a media & political cause célèbre, it's fair and practical selection and usage became impossible. |
|
Truer words were probably never spoken. |
|
|
If dragon skin killed or incapacitated 10 people due to heat stroke due from increased weight/load for everyone it might save if the glue did not melt in the heat would be dragon skin "better". There is more to this than stopping x,y,z the troops already say they are hampered by the weight of current body armor and some of you want to pile more weight on, a lot more. |
|
|
The FAL was originally made in a .280 caliber round that was quite close to the 6.5/6.8 stuff we're tinkering with now . It was my understanding that for the initial tests they told FN that they had to change the rifle to shoot 7.62 X 51 mm 3 days prior to the test . They didn't even have stats for the new round before that . They wound up getting ammo samples something like less then a day from the tests. The M-14 was made to shoot that calibre ,and outperfomed it . That's what I would call a rigged test . |
|||
|
Not BS. I had no Idea who this guy was. We were attending a presentation by a company that makes a number of armor products (vehicle, barrier, glass). This guy happened to be sitting next to me.
|
|||
|
+1 Interceptor with a fighting load and both plates is damn heavy. |
||
|
The M-16 is still in wide service the FAL is being phased away... the world came to the M-16 type concept and walked away from the FAL type concept... so now exactly how wrong was the US Military. |
||
|
I think the european nations would have stuck with the FAL if not bullied into 5.56 by STANAG. our european allies were pissed that less than 10yrs after they retooled to 7.62x51 we were ramming 556 down their throats.
I almost bought the dragonskin but its just too damn heavy. probably heavier than an MTV (that uses interceptor penls and plates) with the side-sapi's installed |
|
I believe it failed as it is a scale type armor that when you bend it creates unarmed gaps between all the plates
|
|
Who bullied Brazil who is now producing a 5.56 × 45 FAL/M-16 Frankenrifle. |
|
|
Blended metal ammo used in a drive-by from a water-powered car against dragon-skin clad targets FTW! |
||
|
The M-16 failed tests, too. Period. Bring back the M-14! We can't have test-failures! |
|
|
When it comes to body armor in combat situations, where the bad guys are firing primarily rifle rounds in your direction, you're really going to need rifle protection (i.e., heavy plates) to stop them. You can piss and moan about the weight all you all day long, but if you want to stop those rounds you're most likely going to encounter, you need the plates.
Standard soft armor will stop frags and pistol rounds. It is useless against rifle calibers. So perhaps the issue with Dragon Skin is that the plates are incorporated into the vest, and is ultimately not an add-on package that you can put on and take off as required like the with bulky plates of Interceptor. But as I mentioned, if you want to stop the rifle threat, you're going to have to lug the extra weight, regardless. And Dragon Skin offers better coverage. As is typically the question with body armor, you have to ask yourself what is more important ... protection or mobility? I guess if depends on the situation/mission. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.