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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 12/28/2001 8:31:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2001 8:33:02 PM EDT by punkatomic]
..., could it have gone off? I don't hear anybody discussing this, but I don't think you can make a high explosive detonate with a match. Richard Reid is a nut case and unless he had blasting caps or detonating cord and a demolition kit this bomb couldn't explode. Of course, the media is not going to disclose this if true, and neither would the U.S. Government. Any demolition guys out there with some insight on this?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 8:43:31 PM EDT
IIRC C-4 will not detonate with a match. It will burn though. Didnt they say he had det-cord attached to it also? Will that ignite with a match?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 8:44:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 8:46:17 PM EDT
I haven't really heard enough about the explosive to make much of an educated guess here. All I've heard is that it was some type of "plastic" explosive, which I figure could mean anything from C4 to a small bottle of baking soda and vinegar. It wouldn't be too hard to make some type of improvised TNT and it could be ignited with a match. Though I would still be kind of weary of walking on it for fear of it going off before I got on the plane. On the other hand, it seems pretty obvious that this guy isn't the smartest kid on the block. You would think he would have taken a cigarette lighter with him instead of a book of matches. So maybe he couldn't have detonated the explosives and he is just an idiot?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 8:50:21 PM EDT
Checkout comments from Neal Knox. He gives you the straight poop on most of the this stuff. The govt probably don't want to panic the massess, but according to Neal this is stuff is pretty nasty. ============================================================ [url]http://www.nealknox.com/alerts/msg00074.html[/url] Dec. 24 Neal Knox Update -- I pray that there are not more terrorists carrying explosives on airliners this Christmas. According to one report this Christmas Eve, the Arabic-looking recent UK citizen found trying to ignite his explosive-filled sneaker halfway across the Atlantic Saturday, was armed with 10 ounces of Semtek, also known as Simtek, plastique or plastic explosive. He was stopped by an alert stewardess and heroic passengers. But government officials are insisting that they have no evidence to link him with Osama Bin Lada's Al Qaeda or any other terrorist group. I've got news for them. Possession of Semtek, if that's indeed what it is, is of itself evidence of terrorist ties. You can't buy that stuff at the local hardware store, or find it around a military base like you might find a common GI explosive. Omar Khadaffi of Libya bought a one or two of the stuff from the German manufacturer some years ago; that was almost certainly the batch which blew Pan Am 103 out of the air over Lockerbie, Scotland. I'd wager that popping a bit of the evidence carried by Saturday's would-be suicide bomber would show a match with the residue from the Pan Am flight. I assure you that the BATF lab in Rockville, Md. can accurately make such a comparison -- perhaps even without popping any of it. Officials are also saying they "aren't sure" that the amount of "improvised explosive" (jargon for a non-military explosive device) he was carrying would have brought down the plane. Don't kid yourself, and the Feds shouldn't try to kid us. It was only a couple more ounces of Semtek that blew the nose off PanAm 103. And, from my limited experience with C-4 back in Texas National Guard days, even 10 ounces of that less-powerful stuff -- which was the initially reported explosive -- would have taken down an airliner. Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta, who had the sad experience of being forced with his Japanese-American family into a U.S. concentration camp at the beginning of World War II, insists that elderly American-born women should be scrutinized just as closely as a Arabic-looking 6-foot three-inch recent convert to Islam, flying on a one-way ticket with no luggage -- as this turkey was. That's not anti-racism, it's idiocy. As Willie Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is." We hunt ducks where there are ducks, not in Manhattan or the middle of the Arizona desert, and that's how we should hunt terrorists.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:04:52 PM EDT
Thing that doesn't make sense to me, why didn't he go to the bathroom to lite it off? Yea, I imagine if the guy sitting next to me pulls out some matches and starts to lite a fuse sticking out of his shoe, I'm going to do something. Oh flight attendant! I think he is some kind of a loser-wannabe terrorist.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:10:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By woodenword: I think he is some kind of a loser-wannabe terrorist.
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Read my post from Neal Knox, where do you get that Symtec stuff? Surely not at your local Wally World. He was just a bit inept in setting it off, but looks like he had some big-time backers.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:18:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: ...On the other hand, it seems pretty obvious that this guy isn't the smartest kid on the block. You would think he would have taken a cigarette lighter with him instead of a book of matches...
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No metal in a stick match to set off a metal detector. I had the eyelets of my boots set the metal detector off at the brig on Camp Lejeune, so I wouldn't be surprised if the sensitivity could be adjusted to detect the metal in a Bic.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:19:58 PM EDT
This guy doesn't know Treetop, does he? He should have known: That's Fire!! You can't bring fire on the airplane!! Ohhhh Somebody had to.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:22:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: This guy doesn't know Treetop, does he? He should have known: That's Fire!! You can't bring fire on the airplane!! Ohhhh Somebody had to.
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Nice 1500th post!!
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:30:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2001 9:35:48 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By DPeacher: No metal in a stick match to set off a metal detector. I had the eyelets of my boots set the metal detector off at the brig on Camp Lejeune, so I wouldn't be surprised if the sensitivity could be adjusted to detect the metal in a Bic.
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Good point! The guy used cheap matches. You can bet that the next time it will be more sophisticated. But what use is it when you adjust the sensitivity to the level that it would detect the metal eyelets of your boots. I have heard news reports that the sensitivity was set so high the metal in womans bra straps would trigger alarms. You might as well strip search everyone that boards a plane, of course could you detect the symtek in the guy's shoes.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:32:19 PM EDT
Another question to ponder: How does a person with no job or apparent means of income obtain explosives AND pay for an airplane ticket?
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:32:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 9:40:27 PM EDT
I heard radio news today that an FBI agent testified at his bail hearing and the explosive was iirc "TATP" or something like that. Never heard of it, but was said to be a favorite of terrorists. Also, it would have ventilated the plane.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 10:24:22 PM EDT
"[b]It would have gone boom. People would have died. Kill him. 'Nuff said.[/b]" Exactly. We dodged a [b]HUGE[/b] bullet this month. The only way to put an even happier ending on this story would be to: 1. Make an example of him (and his helpers), and 2. Fire anyone responsible for letting him on the plane.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 10:38:42 PM EDT
Originally posted by DPreacher: - No metal in a stick match to set off a metal detector. I had the eyelets of my boots set the metal detector off at the brig on Camp Lejeune, so I wouldn't be surprised if the sensitivity could be adjusted to detect the metal in a Bic. So how did you end up in the Brig? I visited the pokey at Pearl Harbor, and was surprised as all hell to see my name and first initial on the roster... Yes, it was someone else.
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 10:41:51 PM EDT
I heard the reason he was ahving trouble lighting it was because his shoes were wet. Make everyone walk through a puddle now...
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 10:53:00 PM EDT
i heard they though he had backing because on inspection, the shoe device turned out to be "far to sophistacated" for that mongral
Link Posted: 12/28/2001 11:27:24 PM EDT
He did not read the part about HMTD in the taleban instruction manual that was captured by the NA.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:17:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Axel: I heard radio news today that an FBI agent testified at his bail hearing and the explosive was iirc "TATP" or something like that. Never heard of it, but was said to be a favorite of terrorists. Also, it would have ventilated the plane.
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Could that have been "PETN"? This is why suicide bombings are not very effective. The type of person who can be convinced to do a suicide bombing is usually so screwed up that they probably need help getting dressed in the morning, let alone detonating an IED. My guess is that the chip in your average laser-guided "smart" bomb has more upstairs than Mr. Reid.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:21:09 AM EDT
Los Angeles Times: Explosives in Shoes Indicate High Level of Sophistication http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-000102860dec29.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dnation RESPONSE TO TERROR Explosives in Shoes Indicate High Level of Sophistication Probe: The materials, favorites of terrorists, suggest plane bomb suspect had training. By RICHARD T. COOPER and ROBERT PATRICK TIMES STAFF WRITERS December 29 2001 WASHINGTON -- When the FBI revealed Friday that shoe-bomb suspect Richard C. Reid had used a volatile compound called TATP to turn his sneakers into a relatively sophisticated explosive device, it offered tantalizing clues in the bizarre case. TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, has a history of use by terrorists in the Middle East and elsewhere. The compound is considered so unstable that one expert said the sound of clapping hands could detonate it. Another expert described setting off explosions by stomping one's foot on small quantities of TATP. In Reid's case, FBI testimony Friday in a Boston courtroom, combined with information supplied by other government sources, suggest the "sneaker bomb" was relatively sophisticated, though not beyond the capability of an individual acting alone. Triacetone triperoxide is made by combining acetone, peroxide and other readily available materials. TATP is roughly equivalent to TNT in explosive power. One government official said TATP is sensitive to heat, shock, friction, temperature changes and static electricity. Recipes for making it are available by the dozens on the Internet. Among experts, the compound is considered too unstable to be used alone, but in small quantities it can be an effective booster or detonator component for larger quantities of other explosives. That was how Reid apparently planned to use it, according to a senior Justice Department official. The official said Reid's shoes contained a potent combination of two explosives: TATP and PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate. According to the Washington-based official, who asked not to be identified, the TATP was designed to be an igniter, or precursor explosive, and "the PETN is the basis for the explosive itself." A "very small quantity" of the TATP was to be lit by flame applied to a fuse or detonating cord that also was connected to the PETN, which is a plastic explosive that cannot usually be set off simply by applying fire to it, the official said.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:21:55 AM EDT
"The fuse, which starts the process, takes you to the first chemical, which is the TATP, which would ignite the plastic [explosive], which is PETN," the official said. The detonating cord also was "laced with PETN," the official said, and Reid had a larger quantity of PETN than TATP. Both chemicals are very powerful, and the combination easily could have blown a hole in the fuselage, according to law enforcement officials. PETN is a key ingredient in Semtex, a plastic explosive that is a favorite of terrorists. Its presence in Reid's shoes suggests an "unusual degree of sophistication," according to a federal law enforcement official. In its dry form, TAPT is a white powder resembling coarse salt--a fact that has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while performing drug tests. Paul Turk, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said bomb detection machines at U.S. airports do not have the ability to detect TATP but that detection capability exists. "We have tested for the stuff . . . but have not deployed it [detection capability] to the field," he said. Another FAA official, however, said the agency plans to adjust existing equipment to be able to detect the explosive within weeks. * Times staff writer Josh Meyer contributed to this report. For information about reprinting this article, go to http://www.lats.com/rights
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:27:32 AM EDT
In its dry form, TAPT is a white powder resembling coarse salt--a fact that has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while smoking it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:32:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: "The fuse, which starts the process, takes you to the first chemical, which is the TATP, which would ignite the plastic [explosive], which is PETN," the official said. The detonating cord also was "laced with PETN," the official said, and Reid had a larger quantity of PETN than TATP. Both chemicals are very powerful, and the combination easily could have blown a hole in the fuselage, according to law enforcement officials. PETN is a key ingredient in Semtex, a plastic explosive that is a favorite of terrorists. Its presence in Reid's shoes suggests an "unusual degree of sophistication," according to a federal law enforcement official. In its dry form, TAPT is a white powder resembling coarse salt--a fact that has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while performing drug tests. Paul Turk, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said bomb detection machines at U.S. airports do not have the ability to detect TATP but that detection capability exists. "We have tested for the stuff . . . but have not deployed it [detection capability] to the field," he said. Another FAA official, however, said the agency plans to adjust existing equipment to be able to detect the explosive within weeks. * Times staff writer Josh Meyer contributed to this report. For information about reprinting this article, go to http://www.lats.com/rights
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Your question about where to purchase - "Wally World" etc. C-4 was the garden variety plastic explosive we used in the cold war era and "SEMTEX" was produced by Soviet Block during this same time period. I know we now have newer and better stuff now but Semtex still works just fine and there's about a gazillion tons of the stuff around the world.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:34:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: In its dry form, TAPT is a white powder resembling coarse salt--a fact that has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while smoking it.
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Everybodies' is a comedian. Don't quit your day job.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:35:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jhasz: I heard the reason he was ahving trouble lighting it was because his shoes were wet. Make everyone walk through a puddle now...
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Could it be??? The disinfectant "puddle" for foot & mouth disease saved an airplane??
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 6:38:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 6:40:33 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By Ponyboy ... has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while smoking it.
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Man, what a mental visual !! A bunch of Narco cops sitting around smoking some pretty good TAPT when suddenly........ [:D]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 7:23:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: In its dry form, TAPT is a white powder resembling coarse salt--a fact that has led to accidents when authorities mistook it for drugs and set off explosions while smoking it.
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Everybodies' is a comedian. Don't quit your day job.
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WHAT ?? He's being a comedian ? Aww shittt. [smoke]
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:08:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2001 9:20:25 AM EDT by EX11B]
semtex (correct spelling) is a czech made military explosive. . was also used by terrorists to blow up Pan Am 103 over scottland. also trace amounts of PETN a chemical in semtex was found on a piece of passenger seat on the downed flight 800 off the coast of long island. and thank god Reid was an idiot and tried lighting his shoe at his seat and not in the bathroom.and it just seems libya purchased about 2000 tons of semtex back in the 1980s.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:12:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EX11B: semtex (correct spelling) is a czech made military explosive. ------------------------------------------- But there "IS" good news. There's only about 2.4 gazillian tons of the stuff available to terrorists.
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Link Posted: 12/29/2001 1:48:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pogo: Originally posted by DPreacher: - No metal in a stick match to set off a metal detector. I had the eyelets of my boots set the metal detector off at the brig on Camp Lejeune, so I wouldn't be surprised if the sensitivity could be adjusted to detect the metal in a Bic. So how did you end up in the Brig? I visited the pokey at Pearl Harbor, and was surprised as all hell to see my name and first initial on the roster... Yes, it was someone else.
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I was with MALS-29 and since I was a SNCO I found myself on the Squadron Duty Officer duty roster on a number of Fridays. The CO has the responsibility of ensuring that all members of the command encarcerated in the brig are visited by a command official at least once a week. The CO decided Fridays were the day for this duty and deligated the responsibility to the SDO. Basicly all you did was make sure the "Cherubs" were in good health, see if they needed any personal hygiene items, ask them if they needed to speak with a Chaplin, that sort of thing. While stationed at K-Bay, I was a Brig Chaser for VMFA-235. I used to get "Cherubs" from my unit out of the brig at Pearl for working parties. NOTHING pissed those Marines off more then having to work for Sailors, so we would bring 'em back over to the Windward side and put 'em to work for us. I always made sure they each got 1 beer before taking them back to the brig, and I never had any trouble with a single one. I guess they liked their beer ration too much to screw it up.
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