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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 8/31/2001 8:45:59 PM EDT
I would consider that a righteous Darwinian outcome: any rotten government which has lost the loyalty of the citizenry deserves to fall; even though the people must suffer until the situation is righted, it is a better outcome than the Elite sending better men than themselves out to die... Funny how the "Patriots" out there hate all "draft dodgers", and cite World War Two as a time when all Good Men allowed themselves to become subordinated to a Great Cause and "freedom" triumphed...hey, folks, you don't know your own history! (you watched too many ball games on TV instead, I think). Sorry, but the general citizenry in the pre-war years was highly opposed to the US entering the war; this has since been forgotten, OF COURSE, after Hollywood unleashed its relentless propoganda campaign, and if you dissented from the crowd you were a traitor. Let's remember, now, that Hollywood was/is overwhelmingly leftist(communist in fact) and the enemy was rightist. So, after eight million supposedly free men gave up their freedom (and served under a largely incompetent and unprofessional Officer Corps, who were largely drawn from the upper classes), OF COURSE they all became Heroes, the enemy were all Villians, and our cause was right, blah blah blah... The BOTTOM LINE here is that a draftee has given up the Greatest Gift, FREE WILL. After all, aren't we told: "By their fruit shall ye judge them"? How can a man who does not make his own descisions be judged, becasuse now the State (and those who own stock in munitions corporations!) calls the shots...but let's face it, many men perfer that dominated and restricted existance, because it frees them from the burdens of Personal Responsibility...so, how could any "free men" band together and win a war? REMEMBER THE MEN OF 1776! Our Independance was won by free men who volunteered themselves for a definite and worthy goal...Today, we have a Mercenary military, with no clear reson to exist, unless you like the idea of being a member of a Global Police Force to be used by the Political Elite to enforce hidden agendas... So the poimt I am trying to make here is that those of you who automatically condemn "draft dodgers", are without a full grasp of all the issues involved: history,human nature,the current political/social power structure...some of you will continue with reactionary dogma and to regurgitate deep-learned Hollywood propaganda, but that's OK, I expect nothing more from such "patriots"...the thoughtful response, even if negative, will be appreciated by all, so here goes: Should a "good citizen" allow himself to be drafted to fight in a bad war?
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 6:21:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 6:32:13 AM EDT
What a moron. As soon as you join a society, you give up personal freedoms in favor of the support of that society. You're just bickering over where to draw the line. Like you're such an expert. Don't lie to yourself. You're already brainwashed and living in a jar. Now quit banging your head against the glass and be a good little citizen :)
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 6:41:48 AM EDT
Guys, I don't know how long you have been on this board but ol' einsatztrooper has been here before. He is a rasict/white supremist of the worst kind , and as you probably know those beliefs are usually based on low self essteam powered by brainwashing by others like him. In short try to DFTFT!! Yes, I know it's hard when they are this stupid. sgtar15 PS Moderators---lets ban him now because it's just a matter of time before the hate post begin
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 9:19:46 AM EDT
You are an idiot. A country run the way you describe would never survive. If the whole country was so against joining the war, then explain why December 8th was the largest enlistment day in the history of the nation. That wasn't the draft, that was free men defending their nation.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 10:44:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By retrodog: What a moron. As soon as you join a society, you give up personal freedoms in favor of the support of that society. You're just bickering over where to draw the line. Like you're such an expert. Don't lie to yourself. You're already brainwashed and living in a jar. Now quit banging your head against the glass and be a good little citizen :)
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Uh just when does one "join" a society Jack? At birth? I sure as hell didn't sign anything saying I "joined" any society! Where in the constitution does it say one must be a servant to the state? (Big Hint it doesn't) To force someone to do something against their will is vile and beyond contempt. Don't expect me to EVER do any fighting on your behalf, as it will never happen. I won't be asking you to do my fighting either.
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: An effective military cannot be one in which a bunch of patriots decide for themselves when to volunteer for service. You cannot train someone how to maintain a tank, how to fly a jet, or how to lead a company under fire ONCE the war has already started. Sure people can just have some military weapons at home, and that's nice, but would it stop an armored division? No, it wouldn't even slow it down. Comparisons to how things worked hundreds of years ago are pointless because of the evolution and complexity of military technology.
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Of course Prof here neglects to mention such examples as the Afghani's bitch slappin' the USSR's finest around, even though they had no aircraft or tanks of their own they seemed to do just fine. Even as we speak the rag-tag Chechnians seem to giving the Imperialist Russians one huge pain in the neck. (So to speak). Nobody wants to look at any alternatives like a very small highly professional all volunteer Army with the rest of the populace being as well armed as they can and want to be and highly "regulated" (meaning trained to those attending tax slaved schools). You know like the founders wanted it to be. Privately owned cannon was not illegal during the founders lives. Why should todays equivalent be illegal for us now? Bring back the Draft? You gotta be shittin' me! I would sooner buy my children a plane ticket to Canada, Sweden or Brazil than to let the likes of DK-Prof try to brain wash my kids into thinking they have to go and defend anyone else but their home country from some boogie-man! We should not be the worlds police, that is bullshit! You can say what you want about Einsatz, but he is absolutely correct about this. I doubt that we would actually agree on anything else though. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 11:51:34 AM EDT
IMO, the draft was necessary and proper during past wars, but I don't see a reason to bring it back anytime soon because: 1) The government has been downsizing the armed forces - do they need the extra manpower? 2) Theres just nothing going on right now to use the armed forces for. The armys so bored that a short time ago they were tackling the daunting isssue of what color barrets to use! During wartime however, a draft needs to be in place to put personnel in areas no one is volenteering for. Example - during WW2 the Army Air Corps didn't draft anyone to become a P-51 Mustang pilot. There were more than enough people who wanted that job - too many in fact that most were assigned as bomber or cargo pilots instead to keep up with the demand. HOWEVER - there were far less people jumping up and down with their hands up wanting to be a front line infantry grunt...freezing in foxholes...getting shelled...taking losses...and yet WW2 was an Infantryman's war. They were the first thing needed to win. That is why we NEEDED a draft. There were jobs to do that HAD to be done, and if there weren't enough volenteers to make up for losses draftees would be used. So was it a sign of a disloyal people if the government had to draft to fill needed positions? HELL NO! If anything, its a sign that a big part of the population of 17 to 19 year old males wanted to survive and didn't want to kill other German or Japanese 17 to 19 year olds! Of course it goes with human logic to choose the relative comfort of the homefront to the terror of the front lines. But again - there were jobs to be done and somebody HAD to do it...and they DID do it...and THEY WON.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:02:44 PM EDT
Hey invictus, unless you're living out in a cabin, like Ted Kazinski, you're probably part of the society. You could leave anytime you want. I'm sure his old shack is still available. As far as expectations out our you. I wouldn't expect you to wipe my butt, you self-absorbed bung hole. Why don't you move to Switzerland or something. I'd gladly fight, even for you. If you were a supportive member of my society anyway. Just the way I am. Sorry you don't want to be part of the group but hey, if you are willing to seperate yourself then you wouldn't have to worry much about being drafted. Just go hide in the woods somewhere. You'll be safe cause the rest of us will be defending your right to do so.
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 12:31:37 PM EDT
I'm afraid that the "Shack" is no longer available for occupancy. The FBI had it hauled off by a Tractor/Trailer Rig. Who knows? it may eventually end up on "Ebay?"
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:28:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By retrodog: Hey invictus, unless you're living out in a cabin, like Ted Kazinski, you're probably part of the society. You could leave anytime you want. I'm sure his old shack is still available. As far as expectations out our you. I wouldn't expect you to wipe my butt, you self-absorbed bung hole. Why don't you move to Switzerland or something.
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Thanks for the invite, but since this is my country I think that trying to correct it is the right thing to do, as opposed to leave it to you and the other chocolate starfish licking National Socialists. Well I am certainly glad to hear that you wouldn't expect me to wipe your ass, then why would you want me to be shipped off to some foreign land to be cannon fodder for some regime who doesn't even trust me to own firearms equivalent to what I would be issued as a grunt?
I'd gladly fight, even for you. If you were a supportive member of my society anyway. Just the way I am.
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Sorry about your luck being that I am not a part of "your" society, I am opposed to initiating force against another human being. Too bad that is not your policy, as well as the policy for the entire populace. I never said anything against defending the United States against enemies foreign and domestic did I? Of course not, all I said don't involve me or my family in your imperialism. If I wanted to be involved in Somalia, Yugoslavia or Iraq I would have joined a band of mercenaries. Involvement in those countries is not something for our military.
Sorry you don't want to be part of the group but hey, if you are willing to seperate yourself then you wouldn't have to worry much about being drafted. Just go hide in the woods somewhere. You'll be safe cause the rest of us will be defending your right to do so.
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I don't expect I will ever want to be a part of the imperialist group so you are correct I don't have much to worry about getting mixed up in some backwater African or Middle Eastern country and getting killed and dragged naked through the streets, or being decapitated and have it shown to all on the internet. If the country is attacked then of course I would defend my community, I won't be party to policing the world however. If you and all your imperialist brethren insist on imposing the new world order around the globe I will be doing my part back home though, someone has to keep all the lonely womenz happy! [sex]
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:36:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 2:58:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Invictus: [Thanks for the invite, but since this is my country I think that trying to correct it is the right thing to do, as opposed to leave it to you and the other chocolate starfish licking National Socialists. Well I am certainly glad to hear that you wouldn't expect me to wipe your ass, then why would you want me to be shipped off to some foreign land to be cannon fodder for some regime who doesn't even trust me to own firearms equivalent to what I would be issued as a grunt? Sorry about your luck being that I am not a part of "your" society, I am opposed to initiating force against another human being. Too bad that is not your policy, as well as the policy for the entire populace. I don't expect I will ever want to be a part of the imperialist group........... If you and all your imperialist brethren insist on imposing the new world order around the globe I will be doing my part back home though, someone has to keep all the lonely womenz happy! [sex]
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You are calling someone a Socialist? Statements about not involving you or your family in 'imperialism' sounds like socialistic comments to me, COMRADE. In one paragraph you complain about not being allowed to own firearms, then in the very paragraph you say that you are against use of force. Can you say CONTRADICTION? You claim this to be YOUR country, yet you express an extreme dislike for the thought of serving that country. Can you say HYPOCRITE? And just how would you correct the country? Not have a military? How long would we last then? How do you like being called names in the manner of your opening paragraph about National Socialists?
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 3:51:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2001 3:59:46 PM EDT by CPL_Punishment]
Originally Posted By sgtar15: PS Moderators---lets ban him now because it's just a matter of time before the hate post begin
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I concur with the sarge. We can all expect to see him post his hate dribble soon. All the insecure young punk does is regurgitate twisted crap he recently learns. In his spark of new discovery, he simply (and arrogantly) expounds upon his newly found knowledge as if he came up with it first, and in a delusional state aspires to be the messiah arriving to educate us poor dumb sheeple with trite diatribe in the failed hopes to affirm his self-worth and importance. After a long painful period of his abrasive idiocy, we permanently banned him (i believe) once. Lets keep it that way. Einsatztrooper = persona-non-grata
Link Posted: 9/1/2001 4:08:24 PM EDT
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