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Posted: 5/13/2003 9:29:57 PM EDT
[b]House Bill:[/b] [url]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.02038:[/url]
[b]Senate Bill:[/b] [url]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:s.01034:[/url]

The Senate bill would eliminate the sunset provision and prohibit the import of Hi-caps. The House version OTOH...

1) Renews the AW Ban permanently.
2) Expands the List of Named Guns to include Hi-Point Carbines, Dozens of Post-Ban ARs and AKs.
3) Reduces the number of allowable evil features to ZERO.
4) Adds forgrips and barrel shrouds to the list of evil features (for a rifle).
5) Bans all rifles and pistols capable of accepting a Hi-Capacity Magazine.
6) Bans all shotguns capable of accepting more than 5 rounds.
7) Bans all AR, AK, etc...type receivers.
8) Bans "AW conversion kits". I.E. AW parts.
9) Allows the AG to add guns to the banned list at any time, with complete impunity.
10) Eliminates exceptions for bolt actions and antiques.
11) Bans the private sale of AWs.
12) Creates a Database of AWs seized by the police regardless of outcome.
13) Require FFLs to notify the ATF whenever they sell a Hi-Cap.
14) Extends the juvenille gun ban to include AWs and Hi-Caps.
15) Bans the Import of Hi-Caps.

But, unlike the senate version, any gun covered by this bill and made before this bill passes (which it won't) would be able to have any evil features you wish...That means if you have a Post-Ban AR, if this bill passed, you could add any evil feature you wish...but, ARs could never again be manufactured...
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:34:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:41:37 PM EDT
Hey everyone! WolfPack is taking female HORMONES!! Can I be the first to twist your new nipples?

It CAN pass. If it comes to Bush's desk in the re election year......
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:48:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:06:52 PM EDT
GW isn't ever going see that bill:


Now, the socialists, er DEMOCRATS, might try and slip someting else on the table later.

The fight isn't over until the current ban expires and then, after a major buying binge of new toys, we'll have to continue to hold the line and work on pushing THAT line back.

This fight will never end until the democrats of today become just a footnote in the history books.  They have made it clear that they seek to remove firearms from every citizens hands.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:10:48 PM EDT
13) Require FFLs to notify the ATF whenever they sell a Hi-Cap.
View Quote

We would need a NICS check to buy a fucking hi-cap magazine!?
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:21:51 PM EDT
13) Require FFLs to notify the ATF whenever they sell a Hi-Cap.
View Quote

We would need a NICS check to buy a fucking hi-cap magazine!?
View Quote

I think it works more like multiple handgun purchases. The FFL sends them a form letting them know that they sold a Hi-Capacity magazine to so and so and such and such a date, etc...
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:35:21 PM EDT
Here would be the new list of named guns. The divisions are my words, not theirs:

AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR
SKS with detachable magazine
Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle, Dragunov SVU

[b]ARs:[/b] AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Olympic Arms OA

[b]FAL/FNCs:[/b] Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, FNC

[b]H&Ks:[/b] HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1

[b]Plastic Rifles:[/b] Calico Liberty, Hi-Point Carbine, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle

[b]Classic Rifles:[/b] M1 Carbine, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, Thompson 1927 Commando

[b]Other:[/b] SAR-8, SAR-4800, SLG 95, SLR 95, SLR 96, Steyr AUG, Ruger Mini-14, Calico M-110

Uzi, Uzi Sporter, Uzi Pistol
Galil, Galil Sporter, Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz)

[b]"Drug Runner" Pistols:[/b]MAC-10, MAC-11, MPA3, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, AB-10

[b]Shotguns:[/b] Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12, LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:42:43 PM EDT

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 13, 2003; 6:00 PM

The Republican-controlled House will not renew the federal ban on Uzis and other semiautomatic weapons, a key leader said today, dealing a significant blow to the campaign to clamp down on gun sales nationwide.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) said most House members are willing to let the ban expire next year. "The votes in the House are not there" to continue the ban, DeLay told reporters.

His spokesman, Stuart Roy, said, "We have no intention of bringing it up" for a vote.

As majority leader, DeLay decides which bills get voted on in the House. Because the 1994 assault weapons ban expires next year, the House and Senate must pass legislation renewing it by Sept. 13, 2004. If Congress fails to act, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons that were outlawed by Clinton and a Democratic-controlled Congress a decade ago would be legal again, handing a major victory to the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups.

Past votes and an NRA survey of lawmakers before the 2002 elections suggest that a majority of House members oppose the ban's renewal, GOP officials said. But several Republicans, who requested anonymity, said some pro-gun GOP leaders worry that if members are forced into a rollcall vote, they might switch under pressure from gun control advocates.

President Bush, whose support of the assault weapons ban dates to his 2000 campaign, has drawn rebukes from NRA members and some GOP lawmakers on the issue. But several Republicans close to the White House said Bush has no plans to lobby lawmakers aggressively to extend the ban. That would allow him to officially oppose the NRA without completely turning against the powerful gun lobby by fighting hard to maintain a ban on semiautomatic weapons.

"The White House seems to think that the bill will never reach the President's desk," said a recent alert sent to members of the Gun Owners of America, a pro-gun group with close ties to Republicans. "At least that is what top officials are counting on. In pursuing this strategy, they are trying to please both sides and are playing a very dangerous game."

Congressional Republicans said Congress will renew the ban only if Bush publicly and firmly insists. "If the president demands we pass it, that would change the dynamics considerably," said a House GOP leadership aide. "The White House does not want us" to vote.

In a letter to Bush, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) said: "It is now time for us to stand up against the unconstitutional gun-grabbing and help our nation in this time of great need by allowing law-abiding citizens to use the weapon of their choice."

It's unclear how much pressure Bush and congressional Republicans will be under to bring up the volatile gun issue, especially in the 2004 election year. While many leading Senate and House Democrats are pushing legislation to renew the ban, the issue is not sharply partisan.

Many rural and southern Democrats, including a few who voted for the ban in 1994, oppose its renewal, reflecting a notable shift in the politics of guns during the past decade. An aide to a Senate Democrat who voted for the ban in 1994 and faces reelection next year said many Democrats "hope it never comes up."

The reason for the turnabout is rooted, in part, in the fallout of the 1994 vote and vice president Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign loss.

In 1994, the Democratic-controlled House and Senate narrowly passed the ban on the sale and possession of 19 semiautomatic, rapid-fire guns and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds. Proponents of the ban said those weapons -- and copycat versions that don't fall under the ban -- are frequently used in violent crimes, including the deaths of scores of law enforcement officials. Opponents said the ban violates the constitutional right to bear arms.

The Democratic-controlled House passed the Clinton-backed gun ban by two votes in May 1994. A few months later, House Speaker Thomas Foley (D-Wash.), Judiciary Committee Chairman Jack Brooks (D-Texas) and several other Democrats who supported the ban were voted out of office after the NRA and other gun activists targeted them with a relentless political campaign.

The NRA's power ebbed and flowed throughout the rest of the 1990s, hitting a highwater mark following Gore's narrow loss in 2000. Gore lost pro-gun bastions such as Arkansas, West Virginia and his home state of Tennessee, in part, some Democratic analysts believe, because he was seen as hostile to gun owners. In this year's first debate among Democratic presidential hopefuls, only Al Sharpton vigorously endorsed the registration and licensing of handguns.

Most congressional Democratic leaders and presidential candidates strongly support the assault weapons ban and appear ready to wage a public fight over an issue they believe may pack a political punch with independents and women, in particular. Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently introduced legislation that would extend the Clinton gun ban with only minor modifications. If the House rejects the renewal, however, Senate action won't matter.

In the House, Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) last week introduced a tougher bill that would ban a larger number of guns. "I don't want to put my members in any trouble. But if we actually face this, the American people [will support] keeping assault weapons from going back on the street," said McCarthy.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company
View Quote

Sorry folks, have to take your cop killing and political assination fantasies to another country (you know who you are). There will be no need for a revolution here.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:46:13 PM EDT
New Evil Features Lists:


Folding/Telescoping Stock
Threaded Barrel
Pistol Grip
Foward Grip
Barrel Shroud
A fixed magazine > 10 rounds

*I notice they left Flash Suppressor and Grenade Launcher off the list, but added Foregrip, Barrel Shroud, and Hi-cap magazine.


Second Pistol Grip*
Threaded Barrel
Barrel Shroud
Magazine Outside Grip
A fixed magazine > 10 rounds

*They dropped Silencer and Semi-Auto version of a Full-Auto, but added Hi-caps. The second PG feature has always been moot as adding one makes it an AOW, not a pistol...and therefore exempt from the current AW ban.


Folding/Telescoping Stock
Pistol Grip
Detachable Magazine
Fixed magazine > 5 Rounds
Revolving Cylinder

*This doesn't seem to have changed.


A receiver "identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of" an AW.

A "conversion kit." Basically AW Parts. This would basically give us Pre-Ban and Post-Ban Pistol Grips, Handgaurds, Barrels...

Any semiautomatic rifle or shotgun "not particularly suitable for sporting purposes" as determined by the Attorney General.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:51:54 PM EDT
Here is the dumbest provision:

922(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

924(a)(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.[/b]
View Quote

Sell an AW, that's fine...sell a Hi-cap, that's also fine. Sell both in seperate sales, again legal. But, sell both in the same sale and you become Bubba's bitch for the next 10 years.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:35:04 AM EDT
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Your guns will be banned and
there's nothing you can do.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:39:14 AM EDT
wtf is imbroglio's problem? what is wrong with this guy?!?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:49:12 AM EDT
wtf is imbroglio's problem? what is wrong with this guy?!?
View Quote

New here, aren't you?  [:D]

Imbroglio is our resident cynic and constant pain in the ass to spur us on.

Learn to filter the noise and you'll find that sometimes he'll get you to think about things, even if you don't want to.

Then again some days I'd just like to put a contract out on him and be done with it.  [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 1:01:59 AM EDT
the second it passes go out and buy every ar you can find, then go to the equipment exchange forum and make %200 profit... cha ching

This will never pass
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 3:18:07 AM EDT
This will never pass
View Quote

You are correct, but they will USE it! The demoncraps will push it, and it will never see its way out of committee to the house floor. The Demons will then "Ask the prez to show compassionate conservatism". They will "Reach across the aisle,.... AND INTRODUCE THE SENATE VERSION IN THE HOUSE. Now, they can claim THEY  have compromised, as well as NOW they have the SAME bill in the house AND senate!!!

If you were awake in Government class, you realize this is a requirement to get a bill approved and onto the president's desk./

This bill is a ploy.

Neither bill, in the house or senate, is acceptable.

I sent letters yesterday to all my reps. How many has everyone else sent?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 6:22:31 AM EDT
Well, I guess the anti-gun liberal news media can't hold it back any longer, and they have to report the bad(to them anyways) news. We're starting see the shift on Fed level at least, from extreme left of center of the Klinton Administration to the slightly right of center of the USA populace. The liberals definition of extreme right, includes those who believe in the 2nd Amendment. The news media can trumpet all they want that Bush Jr. supports extending the ban, but the President is not yet a dictator. So at this point the Prez is just another ordinary citizen. I hope Bush Jr. doesn't make the same stupid mistake the Sr. did.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/13/congress.guns.reut/index.html]DeLay sees assault weapons ban expiring in Congress[/url]

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay says there are not enough votes to renew a ban on assault weapons

Bush supports ban

Tuesday, May 13, 2003 Posted: 3:36 PM EDT (1936 GMT)
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay says there are not enough votes to renew a ban on assault weapons.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The House of Representatives will not extend a 1994 assault weapons ban set to expire next year despite President Bush's call for its renewal, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said.

"The votes in the House are not there to reauthorize it," said DeLay, a Texas Republican and staunch foe of gun control.

The 1994 ban on military-style assault weapons expires in 2004 unless Congress renews it. Bush, who generally opposes additional gun control legislation, has said he believes the ban should remain in effect.

A group of mostly Democratic senators last week opened a drive to get the extension passed in the Senate, and called on Bush to help.

They said they were optimistic it would clear the Senate but that it would need active help to win in the House, where pro-gun sentiments are stronger and Delay has considerable control over the agenda.

The influential National Rifle Association opposes extending the ban that applies to semi-automatic assault weapons like the Uzi and the AK-47 that have high ammunition capacity and are capable of rapid fire at close range.

Another top NRA priority, a bill giving gun makers and gun sellers broad protection against lawsuits, recently passed the House and is pending in the Senate.

Copyright 2003 Reuters. All rights reserved.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 6:47:21 AM EDT
AWB Spin

According to a statement from Feinstein's office, assault weapons accounted for 8.2 percent of all guns used in crimes in 1993. In 1996, the latest date for which statistics are available, the number dropped to 3.2 percent.

Bill Harwood, president of Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence, said the ban should go further. "It has had some effectiveness, but it's not nearly what it could be," he said.
"Manufacturers are very, very successful at finding ways of getting as close to the line as possible," Harwood said. "Bushmaster's a good example. They've learned how to work around the assault weapons ban and still supply firearms to people who are capable of doing things like those done by the Beltway (Washington) snipers."

Like it took alot of efforrt to remove a bayonet lug and flash hider.  I am so sick of spin. Doesn't anyone just tell the frucking truth?
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