[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR PDWs (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 7/20/2016 12:49:42 AM EDT
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AR-15 in .223/5.56 with a barrel shorter than 10" Is there any real expectation of being able to defend your person with such a weapon, or is it just a gimmick? For as long as I've owned ARs (about 15 years now) the doctrine has always been that you need so much barrel to gain sufficient velocity to achieve fragmentation. Then came the idea that shorter barrels with heavier bullets and the right twist rate can be sufficiently lethal. But a 7" barrel shooting a 5.56 round? Aren't you basically stabbing them with a knitting needle at that point? |
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Not necessarily, a 7" barrel gets about 2199 FPS using Hornady 55 gr SP http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html
This delivers roughly 800 joules or 590 ft lbs of energy A 5.7x28mm 28 grain fired from a 10" barrel gets about 2350 fps and delivers roughly 467 joules of energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm Most people will laugh at a short barrel AR15 firing a 5.56/.223 bullet but consider a 5.7x28 in a similar configuration to be a great PDW weapon. Hell....even the secret service did... With proper twist and bullet weight a 7" AR is fine and is in fact a very lethal configuration. Clearly morso than a 5.7x28mm, at least on paper. About the only thing that would give it a run for its money is the 5.45 round but that's another topic. |
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AR-15 in .223/5.56 with a barrel shorter than 10" Is there any real expectation of being able to defend your person with such a weapon, or is it just a gimmick? For as long as I've owned ARs (about 15 years now) the doctrine has always been that you need so much barrel to gain sufficient velocity to achieve fragmentation. Then came the idea that shorter barrels with heavier bullets and the right twist rate can be sufficiently lethal. But a 7" barrel shooting a 5.56 round? Aren't you basically stabbing them with a knitting needle at that point? Lol Go borrow an under 10" barrel AR, and have someone shoot you. Then report back. P.S.: it's a substantial projectile traveling at 2300+ fps at least. If a 90 gr pistol projectile going substantially slower can kill you, why wouldn't this? |
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I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want to get hit by any 55.6 out of any barrel. Agreed May not be optimal at contact distance and may not be awesome at mid-range but it's still a projectile traveling at several thousand FPS Plenty of capable bullets out there There are a lot of downsides and I'd choose a different tool but if you handed me one, I wouldn't feel defenseless |
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas.  Get the LAW folder, or wait for the collapsible brace. I can throw my 7.5" set up with a spare soft vest into a day pack sized backpack without issues. |
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Great thread and questions. I have been studying this exact same thing. If you go to the sbr, AR pistol and ammo sectiin of this site you will find the posts and convos that have been ongoing over time. Here is the deal, at what range do you want lethality? Ok sure a 55 m193 or 62 grain m855 is lethal. What we are looking for though is some expansion, especially in and around possible barriers. The barnes TSX is the answer. I have been building my ammo fort with alot of m855, this is the wrong round for this purpose. What we want is barrier blind capability and expansion. Playing with strelok on my smart phone I can input all of my parameters and play with different loads and velocities. Me personally I want a weapon with lethality at 200 meters. It looks like rolling my own rounds using a barnes 55 grain, I can achieve that. I need to be around 2000 ft per sec. To make that happen. Go read and spend some time. You need to probably reload to get the best possible outcome. If youre looking for a factory solution you can go Fusion MSR. But with that they are not loaded as high as you can go. You will want a 10.3" bbl to get that expansion. With reloading you can maybe get a 150 - 175 expansion with my 8" bbl. M855 or m193 works too but you're shooting ice picks. There are some smart people in those forums on this site I mentioned. Go read, most is covered, if your questions aren't answered in those threads I'm sure those folks will be happy to help. |
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Ballistics are fine. Feels like a hand grenade in front of your face. I heard this a lot when I was reasearching it and almost decided against building one because of it. With a flash pig on it its obnoxiously bright and loud but no more concussion felt by the shooter than a carbine. |
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Get the LAW folder, or wait for the collapsible brace. I can throw my 7.5" set up with a spare soft vest into a day pack sized backpack without issues. Quoted:
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. Get the LAW folder, or wait for the collapsible brace. I can throw my 7.5" set up with a spare soft vest into a day pack sized backpack without issues. You can't shoot with the stock folded on a folder right? Kills it for me with a folder. I want a PDW bad. Not sure why I haven't grabbed a stock kit yet. Have a sbr lower I have never put any parts on yet that's been sitting for months. Love being able to stuff a rifle in back pack. |
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I heard this a lot when I was reasearching it and almost decided against building one because of it. With a flash pig on it its obnoxiously bright and loud but no more concussion felt by the shooter than a carbine. Quoted:
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Ballistics are fine. Feels like a hand grenade in front of your face. I heard this a lot when I was reasearching it and almost decided against building one because of it. With a flash pig on it its obnoxiously bright and loud but no more concussion felt by the shooter than a carbine. I've been debating one with a linear compensator or the Ferfans CRD (or similar) device. |
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You can't shoot with the stock folded on a folder right? Kills it for me with a folder. I want a PDW bad. Not sure why I haven't grabbed a stock kit yet. Have a sbr lower I have never put any parts on yet that's been sitting for months. Love being able to stuff a rifle in back pack. Quoted:
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. Get the LAW folder, or wait for the collapsible brace. I can throw my 7.5" set up with a spare soft vest into a day pack sized backpack without issues. You can't shoot with the stock folded on a folder right? Kills it for me with a folder. I want a PDW bad. Not sure why I haven't grabbed a stock kit yet. Have a sbr lower I have never put any parts on yet that's been sitting for months. Love being able to stuff a rifle in back pack. You "can", but only once, and it can damage the folding mechanism. It's a give and take. I like my set up but I'm well aware of the shortcomings. I'm going to give the PDW arm brace a try, but I suspect it won't be as compact as the current set up (for storage at least). |
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I wouldnt want to he shot with one. This comment always comes out. I wouldn't want to get shot with a paintball gun, but it doesn't make it a self defense weapon. But OP, if that's what you can carry or handle comfortably in your given situation, it's still a hell of a lot better than a handgun, and tons of people use those successfully to defend themselves. |
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My "KISS" rifle, not fancy, but light and manuverable... http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy47/Gunslinger8O8/B815E494-83E1-4C20-BCFC-B72742D0D6EB.jpg Quoted:
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. My "KISS" rifle, not fancy, but light and manuverable... http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy47/Gunslinger8O8/B815E494-83E1-4C20-BCFC-B72742D0D6EB.jpg I have a SBR. In WI pistol AR's are GTG to carry loaded in a vehicle. Rifles not so much. |
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb446/Hollywood3871/Mobile%20Uploads/20160616_170935_zpsfh1jgxaw.jpg Is that a stock or an arm brace? |
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I still need to wait several months to get permission to build mine  Quoted:
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. I still need to wait several months to get permission to build mine
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You "can", but only once, and it can damage the folding mechanism. It's a give and take. I like my set up but I'm well aware of the shortcomings. I'm going to give the PDW arm brace a try, but I suspect it won't be as compact as the current set up (for storage at least). Quoted:
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This needs to be a pic thread. I want to put together a PDW AR with a pistol lower to keep in the car. I need some ideas. Get the LAW folder, or wait for the collapsible brace. I can throw my 7.5" set up with a spare soft vest into a day pack sized backpack without issues. You can't shoot with the stock folded on a folder right? Kills it for me with a folder. I want a PDW bad. Not sure why I haven't grabbed a stock kit yet. Have a sbr lower I have never put any parts on yet that's been sitting for months. Love being able to stuff a rifle in back pack. You "can", but only once, and it can damage the folding mechanism. It's a give and take. I like my set up but I'm well aware of the shortcomings. I'm going to give the PDW arm brace a try, but I suspect it won't be as compact as the current set up (for storage at least). This is probably why I haven't built one yet. Back and forth on which I would rather have. On one hand a folder is much shorter, but the being not able to shoot it thing. The PDW feels a little longer than I would like it but it shoots collapsed. Neither seem perfect. I may just do the folder. Because if you have time to pull it out of a bag you have time to pull the stock out. |
