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Posted: 8/23/2004 10:43:27 AM EST
I seen it stated on these forums that AR15s are so very accurate and that although they're are semi-auto they lose no accuracy b/c of this compared to a bolt gun. Although I can't remember if it has been stated I certainly fealt like this is in contrast to other semi-auto rifles which do lose accuracy b/c of this fact. What is it about the AR15 design that makes it different? Am I totally wrong here? I just don't see how it could be just as accurate as a bolt gun but maybe I'm missing something here. Someone elaborate please.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:47:20 AM EST
I don't know why it is, but it's a fact. The design is inherently accurate. There are a lot of "suspects:" easy-to-use ring & post sights, stock in line with bore, pistol grip, very low felt recoil, and people look really cool shooting it, which boosts self-confidence and greatly improves the shooter's performance. I'm sure somebody here knows a lot more about it than I do.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:47:41 AM EST
Not as much slop on the parts as other semi autos.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:47:48 AM EST
The thing about the AR-15 that makes it different is it's modular design, and that's where your accuracy comes in.

You can put all kinds of different uppers on an AR that will effect accuracy greatly. An AR with a 26" SS barrel is going to be extremely accurate for several hundred yards. You can get uppers with with even longer barrels that are accurate out to about 1000 yards.

It all depends.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:49:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 10:50:03 AM EST by DocBrooks]
but i just don't see how it could be just as accurate than a well made bolt gun. The fact that it has moving parts when fired would seem like enough to make it less accurate.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:51:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By DocBrooks:
but i just don't see how it could be just as accurate than a well made bolt gun. The fact that it has moving parts when fired would seem like enough to make it less accurate.



"When fired" its moving parts consist of the trigger, trigger linkage, hammer, and firing pin.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:54:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By DocBrooks:
I seen it stated on these forums that AR15s are so very accurate and that although they're are semi-auto they lose no accuracy b/c of this compared to a bolt gun. Although I can't remember if it has been stated I certainly fealt like this is in contrast to other semi-auto rifles which do lose accuracy b/c of this fact. What is it about the AR15 design that makes it different? Am I totally wrong here? I just don't see how it could be just as accurate as a bolt gun but maybe I'm missing something here. Someone elaborate please.



For one thing, it is easy to free float an AR's barrel. You still have the gas tube that does touch the reciever, but other than that the AR's barrel is truely free floating.

On rifles like the M-14, you can't free float the barrel, accuracy work involves going the opposite direction: epoxying everything so it is glued into one solid hunk. The result is far inferior to the free floating possible on the AR design.

The other thing is that the AR's recievers, bolt carrier, etc., don't have much of anything to do with accuracy. That's because the bolt locks into the barrel, not the reciever.

If you remove the gas tube on a floated AR, you have something that is every bit as accurate as any bolt gun. It then becomes a matter of barrel accuracy.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:55:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:56:24 AM EST
It's all about the upper being separate (relatively) from the lower IMHO. There are few moving parts on the upper (none when it's in battery), and when the barrel is floated, the harmonics aren't disturbed.

They're not quite as accurate as a true built up bolt gun but they can be close.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:56:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
The thing about the AR-15 that makes it different is it's modular design, and that's where your accuracy comes in.

You can put all kinds of different uppers on an AR that will effect accuracy greatly. An AR with a 26" SS barrel is going to be extremely accurate for several hundred yards. You can get uppers with with even longer barrels that are accurate out to about 1000 yards.

It all depends.



20" ARs are beating M1As/M14s at 1,000 yards w/o any special mods.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:58:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
It's all about the upper being separate (relatively) from the lower IMHO. There are few moving parts on the upper (none when it's in battery), and when the barrel is floated, the harmonics aren't disturbed.

They're not quite as accurate as a true built up bolt gun but they can be close.



If the AR has a good barrel, is floated, and the gas tube is removed, it will be as good as the best bolt guns IMO. Of course I'n not a benchrest type, I shoot Highpower. So a barrel I think is perfect is a benchrester's tomato stake.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:05:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By macman37:
It's all about the upper being separate (relatively) from the lower IMHO. There are few moving parts on the upper (none when it's in battery), and when the barrel is floated, the harmonics aren't disturbed.

They're not quite as accurate as a true built up bolt gun but they can be close.



If the AR has a good barrel, is floated, and the gas tube is removed, it will be as good as the best bolt guns IMO. Of course I'n not a benchrest type, I shoot Highpower. So a barrel I think is perfect is a benchrester's tomato stake.



I just went from what Feamster wrote in "Black Magic" on that point.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:09:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By DocBrooks:
but i just don't see how it could be just as accurate than a well made bolt gun. The fact that it has moving parts when fired would seem like enough to make it less accurate.



The bolt doesn't unlock and the action doesn't cycle until the bullet is well on it's way out of the muzzle. It isn't like a blowback action where the parts are moving while the bullet is still in the barrel.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:15:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:

20" ARs are beating M1As/M14s at 1,000 yards w/o any special mods.




That is not entirely true. Float tubes, two stage triggers and match sights are mods that are done to AR's in order to get the utmost accuracy out of them for highpower competition.

As an AR shooter myself, I would much rather shoot it than a M1A in highpower.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:44:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By DonS:

20" ARs are beating M1As/M14s at 1,000 yards w/o any special mods.




That is not entirely true. Float tubes, two stage triggers and match sights are mods that are done to AR's in order to get the utmost accuracy out of them for highpower competition.

As an AR shooter myself, I would much rather shoot it than a M1A in highpower.



what I meant was "no special mods with respect to the accross the course ARs". The 1,000 yard ARs are the same as the 200-600 yard varity, except they use a faster rifling twist, which is more in line with the actual issued M-16 . . .

The accross the course AR typically useses a 1 in 8 twist, the 1,000 yard version is the same thing but with 1 in 7.7, 1 in 7.5, or 1 in 7. IIRC, 1,000 yard M-14s (M1A, etc.) have specially modified gas systems.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:46:48 AM EST
Also, trigger & sight work (and weights, etc.) make the AR easier to shoot well; the only real accuracy work done to ARs is the float tube and barrel.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 12:11:58 PM EST
Ask your question over in the "Competition Shooting & the Accurate AR" forum.
Some of those guys don't cruise the GD boards.
Plenty of good info over there.

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=10
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 12:23:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 2:39:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By DonS:

20" ARs are beating M1As/M14s at 1,000 yards w/o any special mods.




That is not entirely true. Float tubes, two stage triggers and match sights are mods that are done to AR's in order to get the utmost accuracy out of them for highpower competition.

As an AR shooter myself, I would much rather shoot it than a M1A in highpower.



what I meant was "no special mods with respect to the accross the course ARs". The 1,000 yard ARs are the same as the 200-600 yard varity, except they use a faster rifling twist, which is more in line with the actual issued M-16 . . .

The accross the course AR typically useses a 1 in 8 twist, the 1,000 yard version is the same thing but with 1 in 7.7, 1 in 7.5, or 1 in 7. IIRC, 1,000 yard M-14s (M1A, etc.) have specially modified gas systems.




Gotcha.

Actually, most are now going with faster twists for across the course more like 1 in 7.5" and 1 in 7". The old 1 in 8" twist is slowly fading away, not completely, but most are going faster. The "hot" twist for 1000 yards is the 1 in 6.5" twist so as to be able to shoot the JLK 90's.

Just about all highpower M1A's have modified (unitized) gas systems.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:36:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:
Also, trigger & sight work (and weights, etc.) make the AR easier to shoot well; the only real accuracy work done to ARs is the float tube and barrel.



Don't forget truing bolts to barrels, which is becoming pretty commonplace, and good ammo.
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