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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 4/29/2011 9:58:15 AM EDT
If you buy any precious metals, I implore you to always take delivery.  Pretty please? (If that helps.)

If not, this is the risk you run:

http://www.9news.com/news/article/195806/188/Gold-investor-Jim-Burgs-Superior-Discount-Coins-clients-say-he-stole-more-than-1-million

Gold investor Jim Burg's Superior Discount Coins clients say he stole more than $1 million
10:04 AM, Apr 29, 2011

Written by
Jace Larson

CONIFER - A 9Wants to Know investigation has uncovered a local gold dealer with clients across the country who say he scammed them out of more than $1 million. Some of the clients have sued the gold dealer.

Fairplay resident Jim Burg owns Superior Discount Coins, a gold coin company marketed on the Internet.

"I placed a big order that was $325,000, basically my wife's entire IRA," Larry Lane, who lives near Conifer, said. "Now we've spent the last two years checking with Jim [Burg], trying to find out, where is our gold?"


More at link.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:05:02 AM EDT
Anyone who would put more than about 15% of their savings into precious metals is crazy anyhow.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:17:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Anyone who would put more than about 15% of their savings into precious metals is crazy anyhow.


So if they do they deserve to get ripped off?

I'm not going to tell anyone how to invest as everyone is different - 1% or 93% in gold, I don't care.  If you think it's right for you, go right ahead.  

I just want to remind PM investors to protect themselves - with metals prices as high as they are, the crooks are going to come out in full force.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:20:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Anyone who would put more than about 15% of their savings into precious metals is crazy anyhow.


Agreed, at least if your goal is to do anything other than protect against inflation.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:23:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Anyone who would put more than about 15% of their savings into precious metals is crazy anyhow.


So if they do they deserve to get ripped off?

I'm not going to tell anyone how to invest as everyone is different - 1% or 93% in gold, I don't care.  If you think it's right for you, go right ahead.  

I just want to remind PM investors to protect themselves - with metals prices as high as they are, the crooks are going to come out in full force.



This also serves a reminder that maybe the "full faith and credit of the US government" is a little more reliable than receipts from Bob's Gold Shack.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:25:57 AM EDT
"Basically my wife's entire IRA"

Wow, big case of the stupid right there.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:28:20 AM EDT
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:29:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vicinity:
"Basically my wife's entire IRA"

Wow, big case of the stupid right there.


My thoughts exactly. Sad, but who would do that?


Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:41:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vicinity:
"Basically my wife's entire IRA"

Wow, big case of the stupid right there.


Are you saying that investing that much in gold was stupid, or the fact that they didn't take delivery is stupid?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:44:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vicinity:
"Basically my wife's entire IRA"

Wow, big case of the stupid right there.


Maybe not.  It was his wife's IRA, not his.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:48:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?


Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:02:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 11:05:54 AM EDT by pdimaio]
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

If your gold was in a bank safe deposit box the banks were instructed to take the gold on behalf of the government.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:04:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?




Can someone other than you access it?  Yes.  As such, can it be described as "secure"?  No.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:05:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hector45:
Originally Posted By Vicinity:
"Basically my wife's entire IRA"

Wow, big case of the stupid right there.


Are you saying that investing that much in gold was stupid, or the fact that they didn't take delivery is stupid?


I said the former.  OP is saying the latter.

I believe both are valid points.


Gold has two functions:
1) As a last-ditch trading commodity that will retain value independent of monetary systems
2) As a safeguard against inflation by tying a portion of your assets to a limited-supply commodity with valuable industrial uses

Use 1 is one step below preparing for the zombie apocalypse.  I don't say that as if I mean to disparage either.  "Zombies" are simply a metaphor for general social upheaval.  Having things like food, water, blankets, weapons, etc. for your family is a good idea.  Look at any natural disaster and tell me that your general "zombie survival kit" wouldn't come in handy.  BUT, as with investing in gold, the outlay of funds for your survival kit needs to be tempered with the liklihood of needing it as well as your personal comfort level.  Some people are happy with one rifle and 200 rounds, some hand tools, and food, water, and clothing supplies.  Some people want a whole ammo fort.  Some people want more or less gold.  Or maybe they want platinum or silver.  Doesn't matter.  Like firearms, it's simply a "rainy day" stockpile that shouldn't approach anywhere close to a significant portion of your assets (again, depending on your risk/comfort level).

Use 2 favors a 2-pronged approach.  You want to tie a postion of your long-term savings (example for most people might be a 401k mutual fund) to gold.  Foreign currency can also work, but you'd better have a superstar fund manager.  The idea is that the growth of the fund, as well as the risk, is tempered by a high-security investment.  10-15% is more than enough to do it.  It's just a way to manage risk.  In that scenario, you don't need physical delivery of the gold (or foreign currency, or other security) because it's acting as an anchor for your overal fund.  The second tactic, and where you SHOULD take physical delivery, is to have that physical asset on hand principally as a collateral/security measure.  This, of course, requires you to be largely debt free.  If you have physical assets (which could be gold or something else) that will cover any outstanding debts, then you can cash in, cut ties, and walk away whenever you need to.  People that run a $2k credit card bill every month, and pay it off every month, are wise to keep about $2-3k in physical assets around.  SHTF, you lose your job, you're injured, whatever and you need that debt gone, bam, there's your solution.  Why is this lumped under #2 and not #1?  Because you're buying that gold once.  You buy it when your credit card bill is $2k/mo. and it'll cover you.  Inflation over 20 years kicks in, your bill is now $4.5k/mo. but that same reserve will still cover the debt.  You can buy it once, sock it away, and never give it any thought ever again.

And for those purposes, gold is better than valuable personal property.  Sure, maybe you do have $50,000 worth of NFA goodies, but you're dealing with a limited number of buyers and a lot of red tape to liquidate it.  Same with classic cars, jewelry or art, and even real estate.  Not so for gold.  You can take gold to just about anyone and get at least within 5% of its current market value.

That's why gold is valuable, because you don't have to worry about it.  If you're worrying about it, you're doing it wrong.


But there's always some douche trying to sell something by using smoke and mirrors.  Joe's House of Gold won't tell you that all you need is $2-4k worth of gold in the safe and you're GTG.  He wants you to blow your wife's retirement fund on the stuff.  And he wants to offer to hold on to it for you.  Because as I've shown, HAVING the gold is the security.  Even in the 401k example, what's the security for?  The fund.  Who has the gold?  The fund.  Holy crap, is it so hard to understand?  But people are gullible and, sadly, douchebags try to take advantage of it.

So the moral of the thread is: Don't be stupid.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:07:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?




If serious shit goes down, you might not be able to get access.  Of course, if serious shit goes down globally, the available wealth chasing gold will dry up as well, causing gold values to plummet with everything else.

Decisions, decisions.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:11:31 AM EDT
LOL. I love the gold bugs who speak about the collapse of the dollar. Come on, if SHTF, you think you're gonna take you gold block to the bank or buy shit at the store with it?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:15:06 AM EDT



Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:


LOL. I love the gold bugs who speak about the collapse of the dollar. Come on, if SHTF, you think you're gonna take you gold block to the bank or buy shit at the store with it?


this.  I love those SHTF guys here.  The only thing of value will be guns/ammo/food/skills.



 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:18:10 AM EDT
Not having posession of ANY investment with tangables wheather than be certificates of such, bullion, etc is pretty damn stupid.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:19:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
LOL. I love the gold bugs who speak about the collapse of the dollar. Come on, if SHTF, you think you're gonna take you gold block to the bank or buy shit at the store with it?


That's not the SHTF, that's TEOTWAWKI.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 11:42:47 AM EDT
In case of the collapse of the dollar gold and silver will become the accepted currency. Buying from reputable dealers is a must. Taking physical delivery is an absolute.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 12:20:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Anyone who would put more than about 15% of their savings into precious metals is crazy anyhow.


Not according to Lowjack
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:00:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Drakich:
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
LOL. I love the gold bugs who speak about the collapse of the dollar. Come on, if SHTF, you think you're gonna take you gold block to the bank or buy shit at the store with it?


That's not the SHTF, that's TEOTWAWKI.


Yup.

There's a wide range of suck between here and mad max.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 1:30:07 PM EDT

Why in the hell would you buy gold and not keep it in your possession?   If you are buying for SHTF its not going to do a whole lot of good if somewhere else.

I guess they should have used paypal to make the purchases.  
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:03:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4832471&page=1
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:05:57 PM EDT
Too bad for his wife, but at least he is OK.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:29:36 PM EDT
Take physical possession, and if you do have gold shares, make sure you have physical gold that you own, vs gold that the fund owns.
And watch out for changes in fees. I had gold in 1999 that went to a new fee structure that included an exorbitant storage fee per month. Legal robbery and they didn't have to move it.

Watch all of your accounts!

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:32:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pdimaio:
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Safety deposit boxes don't count either if history is your guide.


Please expound. Safe deposit boxes are not secure?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

If your gold was in a bank safe deposit box the banks were instructed to take the gold on behalf of the government.



The article you site does not say that the federal government was instructed to seize safe deposit boxes.
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