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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/12/2002 3:51:06 AM EDT
Ok, so like i was playin a little bit of Americas Army last night. I make a comment along the lines of- "...WTH? since when is an AK more accurate than the M4?.." one quy in particular sez: oh yeah, in semi-auto the AK will outshoot the M4. basicly the M4 handles recoil better, thats about it. [shock] WTH? blah blah blah, usual exchange of BS comments. I tell him he's full of it and obviously never fired EITHER of 'em.. my sexuality was questioned amongst other things.. anyway, was good for a laugh... or wasn't it?
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:58:29 AM EDT
kids...
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:06:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2002 4:20:47 AM EDT by garandman]
He been drinkin' if he think an AK can EVER outshoot an M4. At 200 yards, I'm feeling pretty good if someone is shooting at me with an AK. If someone is using an M4, I'm bummin'.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:10:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:30:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:38:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: In practical terms I can consistently hit a shoulders up sillouette at 250 with my AK. I can do the same with an M4. I would not feel at all safe if someone was shooting at me with an AK at that range. .
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And if someone presented you and your AK with a shoulders up silouette, then OK. But that would NEVER happen. Only head shots would be available. And where ONLY headshots count at 250 yards, I'm feelin' pretty good if me and my M4 are going up against an AK. Not sayin' I'm happy about it, I just feel like I had a SERIOUS competitive advantage.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:39:54 AM EDT
What a crack fiend! Don Out
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:47:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 4:52:50 AM EDT
In his mind it is. On the net or in a game you can do anything or believe anything you want. just ask Bog
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:26:16 AM EDT
I am sure that you will get a different response had you posted this on the AK board. I have a Saiga that has a 20" barrel on it and it is as accurate as my LEGP M4. But not more.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:31:21 AM EDT
The only way that the AK can come close is to send it to Gary Gucciano(Informer), and have him work his magic on it.,
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:31:54 AM EDT
It would be an exceptionally crappy AR to be beaten in accuracy by any AK. Watch-Six
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:45:09 AM EDT
When I was in the Army we fired AK-47/74s at the range and after a little practice we were hitting targets at the 300m burm just as well as with the M-4s or M-16A2. The two main issues with the AK is its crude sights and heavy trigger pull, both can be rectified by using aftermarket parts, anyone who would feel safe taking incoming fire from either the AK or M-4 out to 300m.+ would simply be out of their mind..
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:07:31 AM EDT
hmmm? my ak-74 clone shoots the same as my legp m4. i won't question your sexuality, nor will i accuse anyone of drinking...but i will invite them down for a paper punching contest. remember, the russians have not used an ak-47 in nearly 30 years.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:13:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hotrod: ...anyone who would feel safe taking incoming fire from either the AK or M-4 out to 300m.+ would simply be out of their mind..
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OK, let's put it this way - An AK and an AR are both sitting in the barracks rack, and you are fast deployed. Which rifle do you grab???? The AR, 11 times out of 10.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:17:38 AM EDT
[url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=131130[/url]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:38:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonR: The only way that the AK can come close is to send it to Gary Gucciano(Informer), and have him work his magic on it.,
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I second that. That is who I sent my Saiga to, and it does shoot just as good as my LEGP M4
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 10:26:42 AM EDT
WOW. Garandman didn't mean to strike a nerve. The answere to your ? is simple, I am much more familiar with the use of the M-16/AR-15 than that of the AK. Besides the signature of a soldier carrying an AK could become a target and could be ventilated by his fellow troops. I was only stating my true life experience with the two rifles and my opinion still stands.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:08:57 AM EDT
I am sure that you will get a different response had you posted this on the AK board. I have a Saiga that has a 20" barrel on it and it is as accurate as my LEGP M4. But not more.
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Ok since I have never seen one of these in real life I will assume you are correct. However, in the Tactical Ops mod for Unreal Tournament(which is very realistic for a game and I like more than counterstrike)the Saiga is an automatic 12 gauge based on an AK 47/74 action. Is the Saiga availible in shotgun gauges and rifle calibers or was this game just totally wrong.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:29:31 AM EDT
According to his infamous prayer, even this a##hole lacks faith in the accuracy of the AK47 Our Lord, make the youths of Islam steadfast and descend patience on them and guide their shots! [img]http://www.adl.org/terrorism_america/bin_laden1.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:35:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By shotar: In practical terms I can consistently hit a shoulders up sillouette at 250 with my AK. I can do the same with an M4. I would not feel at all safe if someone was shooting at me with an AK at that range. .
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And if someone presented you and your AK with a shoulders up silouette, then OK. But that would NEVER happen. Only head shots would be available. And where ONLY headshots count at 250 yards, I'm feelin' pretty good if me and my M4 are going up against an AK. Not sayin' I'm happy about it, I just feel like I had a SERIOUS competitive advantage.
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I wouldn't say anything would NEVER happen in a firefight. I'd rather have my AR than an AK, but the AK will do the job it was designed for just fine.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:42:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunner1X: According to his infamous prayer, even this a##hole lacks faith in the accuracy of the AK47 Our Lord, make the youths of Islam steadfast and descend patience on them and guide their shots! [img]http://www.adl.org/terrorism_america/bin_laden1.jpg[/img]
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What a pithy post for #223, Gunner1X! [beer]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:46:21 AM EDT
Guys, unless you feel up for more typing than playing, DO NOT mention you are a gun owner when playing multiplayer first person shooter games. You'll just get some dumbshit who think they know more than you. Example: Other night I'm playing the Firearms Mod for Halflife, I hear some dumb kid spouting off about some inaccuracy within the game so I chime in. It gets into a battle of wits, or my wit against his ignorance. Eventually he types in this little gem, him: "okay smart guy, how much does the Barrett M82 weigh" me: "well, there have been a few variants over the years but most of them weigh a minimum of 28 pounds unloaded" him: "rotflmao, NO! It's 15 pounds, that's why they call it the [I]light[/I] 50" The exchange went on for a fair while but it was a pointless conversation in the first place, some people simply don't want to be educated about something or want to sound stupid. The same guy thought that the M16 as issued to the troops now weighted in at about 5.6 pounds, which is hillarious considering that's a weight that an M4 would likely have a hard time falling into if it was totally stripped. When I mentioned to him that the M16 A2 is much closer to a 7-8 pound rifle he nearly threw a fit, then I explained to him that my custom squirrel rifle built up on an AR15 weighs in at 15 pounds all by itself and that he's insane if he thinks a 50BMG is going to weigh as little. Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics, no matter who comes in first you're still retarded. Same applies to arguing in video games. Funniest thing of the whole exchange which lasted for several rounds, it pissed off 16+ people in the server who'd rather play than spend their time seeing a couple idiots typing on the screen. I still managed a decent kill/death ratio though.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:50:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spearweasel: I'd rather have my AR than an AK, but the AK will do the job it was designed for just fine.
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And it WAS NOT designed for headshots.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:54:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2002 11:54:50 AM EDT by Spearweasel]
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Spearweasel: I'd rather have my AR than an AK, but the AK will do the job it was designed for just fine.
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And it WAS NOT designed for headshots.
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yes it was! I was playing Halfquake CounterRealdoom of Destiny, and I had this patched Ak and I was totally getting headshots off at 500 meters! [BD]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:58:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spearweasel:
Originally Posted By garandman: And it WAS NOT designed for headshots.
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yes it was! I was playing Halfquake CounterRealdoom of Destiny, and I had this patched Ak and I was totally getting headshots off at 500 meters! [BD]
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Man, yer good!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 12:11:28 PM EDT
I guess he made the statement based on all the Ak's taking home all the trophies.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 12:13:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Spearweasel:
Originally Posted By garandman: And it WAS NOT designed for headshots.
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yes it was! I was playing Halfquake CounterRealdoom of Destiny, and I had this patched Ak and I was totally getting headshots off at 500 meters! [BD]
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I'm a ninja. Man, yer good!!!!!!
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Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:04:22 PM EDT
Both are great rifles in their own right. Personally, if I HAD to pick in a SHTF situation... it would be the Kalashnikov without a second thought. This "AK" competes well with the average M4.... [:P] [;)] [img]http://www.redstararms.com/uploads/BRC/milled6.jpg [/img]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:08:04 PM EDT
Damn, that thing sure does look familiar. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:11:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: At 200 yards, I'm feeling pretty good if someone is shooting at me with an AK. If someone is using an M4, I'm bummin'.
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What he said.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:16:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By uglygun: Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics, no matter who comes in first you're still retarded. Same applies to arguing in video games.
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LOL that is the funniest thing I've heard all week.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 3:23:18 PM EDT
Guys, GG-SAI is Gary Gucciano, also know on the net as "the Informer". He's very well known and respected in the AK community. Informer built AKs are highly desirable. He'll be offering us his knowledge and help as a mod in the "Build it Yourself" forum on our AK side. Drop by and make him feel comfortable.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 5:05:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2002 5:09:15 PM EDT by RedStarArmsVP]
garandman and Philadelphia_GunMan, This is what a better quality off the rack Kalashnikov will do at 100 yards, surplus ammo, standard crappy fat iron post and forward notch sights, sling support only, and an aftermarket trigger. This is BEFORE the rifle has been graced by GG-SAI, who is going to completetly redo it. [img]http://www.redstararms.com/uploads/Oz/dcm5a.jpg[/img] Ozy, the shooter, is eager to give it a run with some better ammo, rear aperture sight, and square front post, not to mention a better barrel, etc. He's come within a couple percent of his Expert AR scores so far with the rifle as is. Charles
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 5:18:01 PM EDT
Yes CanadianGunNut, the Saiga is available in both rifle and shotgun forms. I have not shot an M4 or an AK-47/74, but I know how my SKS compares to my Colt HBAR: The SKS sights are shitty, and about six MOA to the right of the POA. The trigger is the worst I have ever handled. The trigger on my HBAR is gritty, but acceptable, and the sights are wonderful. Add to this that if I had an M4 I would be using optics, and I think it takes the accuracy award, at least in respect to ease of shooting.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 5:36:03 PM EDT
LOL i get in magazine/clip terminology arguments all the time...and win. if someone makes a comment i will state my opinion...and defend it if i have to...its fun! counter strike sucks...but its addicting..also play Rogue spear and tribes 2, and have had other mods and games..still need to try unreal.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 5:47:07 PM EDT
My Vepr K 223 is more accurate than my M4 and ,if the SHTF i trust the fact that ive never had a hiccup from my Vepr. The Vepr is my choice.But there is no other AK i would choose over any AR.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 6:53:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RedStarArmsVP: garandman and Philadelphia_GunMan, This is what a better quality off the rack Kalashnikov will do at 100 yards, surplus ammo, standard crappy fat iron post and forward notch sights, sling support only, and an aftermarket trigger. This is BEFORE the rifle has been graced by GG-SAI, who is going to completetly redo it. [img]http://www.redstararms.com/uploads/Oz/dcm5a.jpg[/img] Ozy, the shooter, is eager to give it a run with some better ammo, rear aperture sight, and square front post, not to mention a better barrel, etc. He's come within a couple percent of his Expert AR scores so far with the rifle as is. Charles
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Very interesting when compared to these pics. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=131674[/url]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:37:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By freeride21a: LOL i get in magazine/clip terminology arguments all the time...and win. if someone makes a comment i will state my opinion...and defend it if i have to...its fun! counter strike sucks...but its addicting..also play Rogue spear and tribes 2, and have had other mods and games..still need to try unreal.
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You speak the truth. I got into an arguement playing Counter Strike a few days ago. The M4, when they load the gun, they *pull* the forward assist. Now, since I'm and AR/M-16 series newbie, I could be wrong, but my AR's forward assist only pushes. They completely ignore the charging handle. That and the magazine/clip thing happens to me more times than I care to acknowledge. I will argue until I get booted, and hacve done this quite a bit. I figure, maybe, out of a server of 30 people, at least ONE person will go away calling it the correct thing, so I've done some good. If you like Counter Strike, try Day of Defeat (www.dayofdefeatmod.com). Set in WWII, much more realistic and a lot less lamers. Sorry for the mini hijack. I'd take my AR over an AK. I'm not sure why, I just know that's what I would choose. Although, I've gotten some awfully nice groups with my SKS. I can get 4-5 inch groups at 200 yard open sighted. I love that little gun. :)
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:39:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2002 9:42:01 PM EDT by bobbyjack]
I own all of the above,before I grab the AK I will be hosing you down with the M1A carbine,much like a .357 mag Thirty rounds. I have a bushy 16 just for a little longer short work. Then if things get real sticky a Hawkim 8mm with 25 round MG-13 mag. And if you get really radical try ducking away from the M1 Grande at about the 300 or 400 meter range. The Ak is a formidable weapon at most any close range,the AR/15 with the right round and the right shooter will chill your ass every time. But this is not all about the rifles I fear, As both are suprime. If its a steak you want then lambchops just won't get it done,same as both of these truly great combat rifles! Edited to say assault rather than combat. Bob [8D]
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:03:03 PM EDT
Although I like the AR, Once I bought my Steyr Aug, my love for the AR dropped a bit (so did my checking account balnce). I consider myself somewhat unbiased in this field and I would have to choose the M4. One of the training coordinators at Rio Salado range swears by the AK. Ive seen him outshoot many guys on my tactical team with their M4's (of course with open sights and not with their ACOG's) Even though I think the M4 is better than the AK I have to say damn - I really want a preban AK underfolder.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 11:47:05 PM EDT
As far as the comparison goes, I would like all of you to read this page from the IDF website. [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/m16vsak47.htm[/url] Pretty much says it all. I own a VEPR K 7.62x39, and a Bushmaster AR15. Both are very reliable, and accurate, but the AR15 is by far the most accurate of the two. Everything I've read about the VEPR K is that it is much more accurate than a standard AK. I personally would not want a rifle that is less accurate than the VEPR. Having been in the Marine Corp. and knowing quite a few Marines (Pop is a retired Marine Col.) I've been told that the Marines would have NEVER adopted the AK47 as their standard issue service rifle, because of the inability to hit consistently at the 500 yard target. From what I've read about the M4, it's slight loss of accuracy at 500yds. is why the Marine Corp. has not converted, yet.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:13:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By starsil9: As far as the comparison goes, I would like all of you to read this page from the IDF website. [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/m16vsak47.htm[/url] Pretty much says it all. I own a VEPR K 7.62x39, and a Bushmaster AR15. Both are very reliable, and accurate, but the AR15 is by far the most accurate of the two. Everything I've read about the VEPR K is that it is much more accurate than a standard AK. I personally would not want a rifle that is less accurate than the VEPR. Having been in the Marine Corp. and knowing quite a few Marines (Pop is a retired Marine Col.) I've been told that the Marines would have NEVER adopted the AK47 as their standard issue service rifle, because of the inability to hit consistently at the 500 yard target. From what I've read about the M4, it's slight loss of accuracy at 500yds. is why the Marine Corp. has not converted, yet.
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i understand what ur saying. U cant compare a VeprK in accuracy to an M4 unless its the 223 model. There is no AK in 7.62 that can compare to an AR in accuracy but the Vepr K 223 out of the box will go shot for shot with an M4. i love it cause its different, the traditional AK owners dont like it cause u cant change the furniture, bla, bla, bla and the AR guys dont think AK's are accurate.
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