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Posted: 3/2/2001 4:40:14 PM EDT

I plan to buy a Bushmaster E2S shorty carbine in the next month or so . I found a place that sells them for $650.00 w/ A1 , and $700.00 w/ A2 .

Is it worth the extra $50.00 ? What is the differents ? What one is recomended for someone that is new to the AR15 , and dose not plan to shoot long ranges with open sights ? What one do YOU like best ?

Is there any ware that I can find out info on the A1 , and/or A2  ?

Thanks: AR15wanabe
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 4:44:32 PM EDT
A1 = does not have forward assist for the bolt. Need tool to adjust peep site( I personally like this feature.)

A2 = Has forward assist on bolt and a knob to adjust peep sight.

Not sure, but I think there is a difference in the gas tube as well. I could be wrong on that though.

Link Posted: 3/2/2001 4:47:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 5:38:15 PM EDT
A1 = does not have forward assist for the bolt.
View Quote

Are you sure of this? I thought all the newer semi's had forward assist. Even my M-16A1 has a forward assist. I thought the only difference was the adjustable sights?

Anyone elses thoughts?
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 5:50:06 PM EDT
A1 vs. A2 does'nt have anything to do with a forward assist, all the knew AR's have this.

Bushamster A1 upper:

Bushmaster A2 upper:

I believe it has to do with the sights but I'm not absolutely positive.
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 5:55:34 PM EDT
The  A1 differs from the A2 in:
The buttstock
Front sight post
flash hider
Rear sight
barrel profile
barrel twist
Pistol grip
3 round burst
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 5:58:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 6:29:10 PM EDT
If you plan on competing I'd go with the A-2. If it is going to be a plinking /defense rifle..go with the A-1 sight. The A-2 is a bit more fragile.
View Quote

Well I don't plan on competing now , but I may with in the next year or so . Could I replace the A1 with an A2 latter on when I figger out what I want to do ?

Right now this rifle is going to be my
"Coyote Carbine" . I was thinking of putting a Holosight 2 w/ 1 MOA dot , but I may have to go with open sights for the first month or two tell I save up some more cash .

Maybe I should stop being such a cheap A$$ , and do this right "sence it is my first AR" ?

Regards: AR15wanabe
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 6:32:24 PM EDT
Hey lordtrader..what's with the Troll? I liked the nearly nude dancing chick's better[:D]
View Quote

Not a troll!!! He's a fighter mage. D&D Character. Well actually Diablo character. Somehow I found better fitting for the moniker LORDTRADER than the dancing chick. Maybe if I ever change my name to pimp daddy, she might make a comeback. [@:D]

Well I guess I'm only semi right on this A1 A2 info. Oh well. That's the beauty of this site. More info than you'll ever need.
Link Posted: 3/2/2001 8:26:54 PM EDT
The original M16 was the one without the forward assist. The M16A1 added the forward assist. A myriad of changes arrived with the M16A2, some no necessarily for the better. The most annoying of which was an inconsistent trigger pull due to the burst cam. This is not a problem with any semi-auto only civilian models though. The other annoyance is that they changed the buttstock length.

Every other change (twist rate, barrel thickness, hand guards, sights - front AND rear, SHAPE OF FORWARD ASSIST - yes, there is a change evident even on the pictures someone posted, pistol grip, buttstock latch and type of plastic used for the stock) was, in my opinion, an improvement. The sights are no less sturdy. They have held up fine from Panama to Iraq to Somalia - they will hold up fine at the range.

Link Posted: 3/2/2001 9:26:21 PM EDT
Any new Bushmaster you purchase will have all the A2 upgrades stated by ELEFTARIA.  The ads that state A1 versus A2 are referring to the upper receiver rear sight.  The A1 rear sight is adjustable for windage only and a tool (or bullet) is required to change it.  The A2 rear sight is adjustable for windage and elevation... no tools required.  The folks I know order the A1 for carbines and A2 for 20" or dissipator carbines.  Get a Bushmaster catalogue and read it.  You'll learn a lot about these features from them.  The A2 sights are just as strong, but a waste on a carbine IMHO.  Going from a A1 to A2 sight would require a new upper receiver housing and the tools to remove the barrel.  Adding to your decision, you can also consider the A3 flat top.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 12:17:18 AM EDT
I'm an A2 fan.  I like how the sight works better.  Also, the indentation under the sight on the A1 isn't really comfortable on my hand.  It's kinda sharp(not cutting like a knife sharp, just not thick/smooth like the rest of the carry handle)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 7:46:52 AM EDT
wanabe - I would wholeheartedly recommend the A1 receiver on your AR15.

My first AR15 was an A2.  After about 6 months of shooting and learning I switched the receiver out for an A1 and have never looked back.

The only difference, practically speaking, will be that once the A1 sight is set, barring being hit by a Mack truck, it will NOT move.  I like it for that reason.  *Some* A2 sight adjustment wheels (elevation or windage) can move fairly easily when bumped.  The A1 is rock solid.  

With an A1, if you shoot and different longer distances you really do not have the quick option to adjust the sight system to compensate - but so what!  For a non-competition weapon it is much faster to simply adjust your Point of Aim (POA) to compemsate for a longer shot.  Just aim higher!

My M4 with an A1 receiver is my favorite weapon.  The only thing I would suggest you do to an A1 receiver is to replace the rear aperture with an "Ashley Outdoors Same Plane Sight Aperture".  What a great addition!  This little beauty has 2 different sight aperture diameters - just like the A2 - but it is compensated so when the sight is flipped from small to large aperture (or vice versa) there is no change in Point of Impact regarding elevation or windage.  What this does is give you the chioce of a small aperture for the longer more precise shots and a large aperture for the CQB (Close Quarter Battle) applications with no change in your POI.

The large aperture is a great close range "ghost ring" type setup.  If you use a "ghost ring" setup in CQB properly, then you know that "what you see is what you hit!"

The ONLY reason I would suggest an A2 receiver is if someone wer going to compete in High Power or DCM shooting.

Go A1.  Good luck in your chioce.  

One more thing, it's not a big deal to switch out one type of receiver for another if you ever change your mind.  You will most likely find yourself with 2 uppers for each lower you have - which is the beauty of the AR15 design - versatility!

Link Posted: 3/3/2001 9:13:26 AM EDT
I like the A1.  Actually, that is what I would get even if it cost a little more.  It is more durable, looks better, less to get dirty or snag.  Remember that the elevation settings on the A2 are calibrated for a particular barrel length/bullet weight and sight radius.  Might not apply to the rifle/ammo you are using.  Using A1 and a good understanding of 'battle sight zero' you can do what you need to do out to the effective range of the rifle.  Also once you set windage, you should never have to set it again.

I shot my way through high school and college in competition small bore. (Yea, I brought a gun to school every day.)  There were people who thought it was funny to spin the dials on someone's Redfields when their back was turned.  This can't happen to you on an A1 -- once you set it up, it's set.  All you can do is flip it over for long or short range.  If you want a 'match rifle,' you would be getting a flat top, anyway.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 2:12:34 PM EDT
Nice work, AKrazy
a picture's worth 1000 words.
There are a lot of different setups on A1s and A2s in this world, but the poster asked about Bushmaster A1 and A2: and the photos show them exactly as they come from Bushmaster. That's what they have in the shop when they say they have a BM with the A1 upper and a BM with the A2 setup. Note the BM A1 has a shell-deflector and a FA (Forward Assist), it also comes with a tear-drop shaped FA knob (the Bushmaster A2 will come with a round FA knob).

A2s are good for long distance shots, they are more adjustable and easier to use. Don't Marines qualify at 500 meters with them?
The A1s are more rugged and suitable out to 1-200 yards- and that's fine with me. I also prefer A1- if I want to hit things past 200 meters I grab a 7.62x51NATO.
A3, or "flat-top" may be what you want if you want to put a good scope on the rifle.

Look at the pictures again.

Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:08:45 PM EDT
Having shot a Marine 3D pop-up qualification course, I never had time to change the sights.  Estimate hold over and go for it.  Too fast and furious the way we the range was run for us.  (not a service shoot, just use of the range)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 3:38:37 PM EDT
One more thing, it's not a big deal to switch out one type of receiver for another if you ever change your mind.  You will most likely find yourself with 2 uppers for each lower you have - which is the beauty of the AR15 design - versatility!

View Quote

I bought my Bushmaster with an aftermarket upper and a 24" bull barrel. I have an A1 upper with a 16" Wilson barrel on the way, for that very reason, versatility.

In 30 seconds I can go from bench rest shooting to off hand plinking. And, in a few weeks, I'm going to order one of those .50 cal barreled uppers for it.


Then I'd have a complete package, I would think. :)
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:28:33 PM EDT
Besides the sights most A-1's have a "tear drop" forward assist[compared to the originam M-16 without a FA]compared to the round forward assist on the A-2.Also what I am surprised no one mentioned.....the other main difference between the A-1 and A-2 is that the A-2 has a shell deflector......geez thought somebody would have hit on that.if you want to scope it later on get the A-3 flattop unfortunatly bushmaster stopped suppling the detachable carry handle {A.K.A the rear sights}with the rifles if you go this route you will have to purchase a rear sight system separetly
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 4:54:52 PM EDT
akrasy's "Bushmaster A1" upper receiver is really a Canadian C7 Upper.  With the possible exception of a few transition examples, the M16A1 upper receiver had no spent case deflector, windage only adjustable rear sights and a forward assist with a tear-drop button.

The M16A2/A3 added the fully adjustable rear sights in the fixed carry handle and the spent case deflector.  The forward assist button is round rather than tear-drop in shape.

The M16A4 is the flattop upper receiver with the round forward assist button and spent case deflector.

For the most part, commercial AR15-type rifle makers, except ArmaLite, call their flattops the "A3" model.  They are free to do so, but they are not following the military designations.

Get a flattop model and buy the carry handle sights, or one of the flip up types from ARMS or G,G&G.  The flattop gives you the flexibility to use either iron or optical sights without having to switch uppers.
Link Posted: 3/3/2001 10:08:29 PM EDT
for the benefit of the board:
look at the photos Akrazy posted.
Read what I wrote,
go to the shop and look at the two Bushmasters- the A1 and the A2 Bushmasters.
Tell these gents if anything I said was incorrect. Anything at all...

(as the owner of a Bushmaster A1 and a Bushmaster A2 I feel pretty confident).
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