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Posted: 8/25/2005 2:22:38 PM EDT
My dad was re-doing the shingles and roof when he found a bullet. He said it wasn't lodged in anything and didn't see any signs of penetration, it was just there.

I examined it:

4 rifling lands
steel jacket (bi-metal)
0.308"-0.310" at ogive (hard to say because of black residue and possibly corrosion)
FMJBT with exposed lead at the rear
There was no sign of fragmentation or expansion but lots of "scratch" marks on the tip of the bullet.

I haven't heard any AK fire at our house within the past year, so chances are it happened with the previous owners.

What else should I look for? I have nothing else to really go on. If I contact the local LEOs they're going to think I did it (I have lots of bi-metal 7.62x39 122gr for my Vepr), but again, I didn't see any signs of penetration.

I'm guessing:
1). Someone fired into the air during 4th of July and it landed in between the shingles
2). Someone fired it at a high enough trajectory so that by the time the bullet hit, it lacked enough power to penetrate.
3). The previous person to work on the roof had a spent bullet and it fell out.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:24:04 PM EDT
Do nothing. It caused no dammage, you have no clue how it got there. Chalk it up to being one of those 'wierd things' and go on with your life.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:24:21 PM EDT
The answer is 1).

Keep it as a souvenier.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Do nothing. It caused no dammage, you have no clue how it got there. Chalk it up to being one of those 'wierd things' and go on with your life.



+1, I don't see why there's much of a question about this.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:26:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:27:21 PM EDT
Call the police. Maybe they can take the bullet in for questioning.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:27:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 2:32:56 PM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.

umm no. terminal velocity will be much less than the velocity at the muzzel.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:28:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:28:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Do nothing. It caused no dammage, you have no clue how it got there. Chalk it up to being one of those 'wierd things' and go on with your life.





+1.


I did the same with the one I pulled out of my skull. Never bothered me none.Happened about a week before my first SEC foray.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:30:13 PM EDT

I'm guessing:
1). Someone fired into the air during 4th of July and it landed in between the shingles
2). Someone fired it at a high enough trajectory so that by the time the bullet hit, it lacked enough power to penetrate.


It's one of those two.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:30:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 2:30:55 PM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel.


This is not true.

Please get a copy of Hatcher's Notebook. General Hatcher devotes a whole chapter to the subject of shootig rounds straight into the air during his research for the Military.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:33:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:33:22 PM EDT
the phrase ignoring air drag makes this a true statement. if you want the physics equations I can give them to you. In the real world, it will land at the terminal velocity of a bullet. This is a very high number. People have been killed by falling bullets, so it would definitely lodge in a roof.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:33:57 PM EDT
Its one of those mysterys of the Universe, Go on with your life.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:34:31 PM EDT
So for the 4th of July, I should stay indoors and/or wear PASGT helmets with the kevlar liner?
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:38:57 PM EDT
Call David Caruso.

He can figure out where it came from and make an arrest in under an hour.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:40:18 PM EDT
It's Bush's fault for letting the AWB expire.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:41:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 455SD:
Call David Caruso.

He can figure out where it came from and make an arrest in under an hour.




Mmmmm Calleigh Duquesne... Emily Proctor
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:56:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blair50:
the phrase ignoring air drag makes this a true statement. if you want the physics equations I can give them to you. In the real world, it will land at the terminal velocity of a bullet. This is a very high number. People have been killed by falling bullets, so it would definitely lodge in a roof.



Terminal velocity of a bullet would be similar to the terminal velocity of a penny... again, ignoring air drag. Nobody's going to be killed (nor has anyone) by a falling bullet that was fired straight up -- people may have been killed by a bullet that was fired at an angle and still had a great deal of its muzzle velocity, but no one is going to be killed by a bullet that's fired straight up and then comes back down. Mythbusters did a show on the "penny falling from the empire state building problem", which is actually very relevant to this discussion as well.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:35:46 PM EDT
Do not say anything further! Delete your posts on this forum so they can't be used against you!



Lawyer up immediately!!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:42:14 PM EDT
First (to metroplex): Do nothing. Why in God's name would you call the police?

Second (to blair50): WTF? Bullets falling at the same rate they left the muzzle? I don't even know where to start.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:45:54 PM EDT
Bullets fired straight into the air fall butt first.
One fell onto the hood of my car on a 4 July and it penetrated the sheet metal.
The bullet had insignificant deformation.
It was a 7.62x39.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:48:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:52:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
So for the 4th of July, I should stay indoors and/or wear PASGT helmets with the kevlar liner?



The PASGT is already kevlar; no liner needed
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:52:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Just so you know, a bullet will fall at the rate of 32 fps/s until it reaches "terminal velocity", which is where the air compression ( "drag", it is a "linear air compressor", same reason the shuttle gets hot on re-entry) matches the rate of acceleration, and the falling object has a constant speed.

So any bullet fired upward will come back down, and hurt as much, as a ball of hail the same mass.




JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Ice density ~ 917 kg/m3
Lead Density ~ 11340 kg/m3



Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:54:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

(to blair50): WTF? Bullets falling at the same rate they left the muzzle? I don't even know where to start.



Maybe it was one of those uber fuckin tactical super duper bi-metal rounds with the little rocket thingies in the back of em....when the bullet is goin slow and senses an enemy rear or rear in position it fires a thrust and speeds up These are usually used by the black covert secret faggots op society.

nanynana nana.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:57:16 PM EDT
Get over it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:58:52 PM EDT
Put it in your scrap lead pile with all the other bullets, wheel weights, etc. you have collected over the years. When you are ready to start casting bullets, it can become part of a new bullet.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:01:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 4:08:38 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.

umm no. terminal velocity will be much less than the velocity at the muzzel.



blair50 doesn't have a clue, and beer_slayer can't spell

ahem.

<Apparently we failed to teach TBS how to properly edit within a post too. Danged rookies. --tbk1>
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:02:40 PM EDT
4. Make it into a keychain fob, and make up a completely BS story a heroic sage of selfless service to brothers in arms that will get you laid.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:08:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.

umm no. terminal velocity will be much less than the velocity at the muzzel.



blair50 doesn't have a clue, and beer_slayer can't spell

ahem.



The problem with this is that air drag on a bullet is quite significant. Bullets decelerate from the muzzle at the rate of many g's
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:08:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CelesChere:
Call the police. Maybe they can take the bullet in for questioning.





Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.

umm no. terminal velocity will be much less than the velocity at the muzzel.



blair50 doesn't have a clue, and beer_slayer can't spell

ahem.



The problem with this is that air drag on a bullet is quite significant. Bullets decelerate from the muzzle at the rate of many g's



STOP!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:10:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:26:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:39:33 AM EDT
How does one simply "ignore air drag" without a trip to space? I've tried it, and the damn air just wouldn't go away, no matter how much I ignored it! Damn stupid air...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:46:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Just so you know, a bullet will fall at the rate of 32 fps/s until it reaches "terminal velocity", which is where the air compression ( "drag", it is a "linear air compressor", same reason the shuttle gets hot on re-entry) matches the rate of acceleration, and the falling object has a constant speed.

So any bullet fired upward will come back down, and hurt as much, as a ball of hail the same mass.




JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Ice density ~ 917 kg/m3
Lead Density ~ 11340 kg/m3






Might want to check with Mr. Newton. Mass doesn't matter for the "speed of gravity".

The only thing mass will change is the amount of energy the impact will have, with both objects falling at the exact same speed.




Density effects ballistic coeficiant. It also effects penetration...so your statement of it hurting as much as hail the same weight it way off.


It will be moving faster than hail becuase it has less wind resistance for the same mass...


It will have a much greater pound per square inch impact than hail...


Newton would agree....apples don;t hurt as much as hail......bullets hurt worse than hail.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:50:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Just so you know, a bullet will fall at the rate of 32 fps/s until it reaches "terminal velocity", which is where the air compression ( "drag", it is a "linear air compressor", same reason the shuttle gets hot on re-entry) matches the rate of acceleration, and the falling object has a constant speed.

So any bullet fired upward will come back down, and hurt as much, as a ball of hail the same mass.




JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Ice density ~ 917 kg/m3
Lead Density ~ 11340 kg/m3






Might want to check with Mr. Newton. Mass doesn't matter for the "speed of gravity".

The only thing mass will change is the amount of energy the impact will have, with both objects falling at the exact same speed.



But density matters...feathers, for example. Snowball for another. Shape also matters. Snow falls very slowly yet it has only a slightly lower density than rain. But hail is also ice... You know why hail attains such deadly speed? Because it holds its shape. Rain drop size reflects the speed in which it is falling, inducing a downdraft. Rain reaches a top speed relative to this downdraft of about 5 MPH, any faster and the drop breaks apart and slows down....

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Just so you know, a bullet will fall at the rate of 32 fps/s until it reaches "terminal velocity", which is where the air compression ( "drag", it is a "linear air compressor", same reason the shuttle gets hot on re-entry) matches the rate of acceleration, and the falling object has a constant speed.

So any bullet fired upward will come back down, and hurt as much, as a ball of hail the same mass.




JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Ice density ~ 917 kg/m3
Lead Density ~ 11340 kg/m3






Might want to check with Mr. Newton. Mass doesn't matter for the "speed of gravity".

The only thing mass will change is the amount of energy the impact will have, with both objects falling at the exact same speed.



But density matters...feathers, for example. Snowball for another. Shape also matters. Snow falls very slowly yet it has only a slightly lower density than rain. But hail is also ice... You know why hail attains such deadly speed? Because it holds its shape. Rain drop size reflects the speed in which it is falling, inducing a downdraft. Rain reaches a top speed relative to this downdraft of about 5 MPH, any faster and the drop breaks apart and slows down....





Yep....and bullets are made to have an excellent shape and density....
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:02:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:11:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



Just so you know, a bullet will fall at the rate of 32 fps/s until it reaches "terminal velocity", which is where the air compression ( "drag", it is a "linear air compressor", same reason the shuttle gets hot on re-entry) matches the rate of acceleration, and the falling object has a constant speed.

So any bullet fired upward will come back down, and hurt as much, as a ball of hail the same mass.




JUST SO YOU KNOW.

Ice density ~ 917 kg/m3
Lead Density ~ 11340 kg/m3






Might want to check with Mr. Newton. Mass doesn't matter for the "speed of gravity".

The only thing mass will change is the amount of energy the impact will have, with both objects falling at the exact same speed.




Density effects ballistic coeficiant. It also effects penetration...so your statement of it hurting as much as hail the same weight it way off.


It will be moving faster than hail becuase it has less wind resistance for the same mass...


It will have a much greater pound per square inch impact than hail...


Newton would agree....apples don;t hurt as much as hail......bullets hurt worse than hail.



Let me explain more...

I said it would hurt the same as hail the same mass.

By your post, you proved that it would be a mighty large ball of hail to meet the same mass as a falling lead object.

Not quite sure where the confusion is here.Also, a bullet fired straight up will fall base down, basically making the ballistic coefficient null (ref: Hatchers Notebook and the island tests)




It would hurt more. Ice breaks up, ice would not drop as fast, ice would not penetrate.


The BC of a bullet would be much larger than that of hail....its a stuipid point to argue...sorry i started it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:16:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:19:20 AM EDT
I think someone might be trying to kill you.

And also if a bullet was fired straight up in the air in the forest with no people around and leave it to beaver set up camp while the bullet was in the air, would the bullet have enough force to make a hole in his tent? Also would it matter if he touched the tent with his finger before the bullet came down? And also, if no one heard the gunshot did it really happen.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:21:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
How does one simply "ignore air drag" without a trip to space? I've tried it, and the damn air just wouldn't go away, no matter how much I ignored it! Damn stupid air...



LOTS and LOTS of CLP. It makes the bullets go faster...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:24:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CelesChere:
Call the police. Maybe they can take the bullet in for questioning.



Is the bullet hostile? If so, tase it. Then take it in for questioning.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:28:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But density matters...feathers, for example. Snowball for another. Shape also matters. Snow falls very slowly yet it has only a slightly lower density than rain. But hail is also ice... You know why hail attains such deadly speed? Because it holds its shape. Rain drop size reflects the speed in which it is falling, inducing a downdraft. Rain reaches a top speed relative to this downdraft of about 5 MPH, any faster and the drop breaks apart and slows down....




Density, mass weigh, have no bearing, wind resistance or shape does matter as does viscosity of the object (if liquid, but this is a factor for wind resistance by changing of the shape)


Alright, I'm not getting into this, it's been done to death already and there's plenty of actual facts out there on the interweb for everyone to see if they want the truth. Bullet was probably a 4th of July remnant IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:31:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blair50:
Ignoring air drag (which on a bullet is relatively small), a bullet shot straight in the air will land with the same velocity as it left the barrel. This makes me belive that the bullet couldn't have been fired from a gun. Someone probably found it at a range or something and threw it up there.



You work in a gunshop don't you.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:38:59 AM EDT
This post is Worthless Without a Point.......
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:39:34 AM EDT
Call and complain to Gov. Jenny. Tell her the crime could have been solved had she had a bill passed mandating serial #s on every round of ammo sold/brought into MI!

Remember Jenny? She said there would be blood in the streets before the CPL law passed. What a maroon!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:42:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By FredM:
It would hurt more. Ice breaks up, ice would not drop as fast, ice would not penetrate.


The BC of a bullet would be much larger than that of hail....its a stuipid point to argue...sorry i started it.



What if it was dropped by a European Swallow?



But an African Swallow could carry a larger bullet or ball of ice
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:49:10 AM EDT
I suppose we can also assume there's a possibility it was dropped by a European swallow. Of course and African swallow might have the ability to fly at a higher altitude, thus giving the bullet more time to reach terminal velocity.
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