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Quoted: I think that every thoughtful person should read their kid's assigned history books. If the books differ from objective history, then the parents should organize and complain. If the history books seem to show some political slant, then organize some more and complain again. A lot of folks pay attention to town/city council races, but pay scant attention to school committee elections. The School Committee makes School policy, buys Textbooks, and so shapes how your kid is brainwashed educated. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: This thread also made another random thought pop into my head (not like that's all that unusual) but I wonder how much Revolutionary War history they're even teaching in schools these days? I graduated in '90 and by the time I was out of school we'd had an entire year of Pennsylvania History when we were in 10th grade, and the biggest part of that being on the Colonial/French and Indian War/Revolutionary War period. Then in 11th grade we had American History from Colonial to Civil War in one semester and then Civil War to Modern in the other, and I know we did at least a month on the Revolution by itself. They sandwiched the American/PA history between the World stuff since in freshman and senior years we had World History for the whole year in each grade, in 9th grade it was Ancient to Industrial Revolution and then in 12th it was Industrial Revolution to Modern. Just something that I wonder, how much history is actually getting taught anymore in schools? I think that every thoughtful person should read their kid's assigned history books. If the books differ from objective history, then the parents should organize and complain. If the history books seem to show some political slant, then organize some more and complain again. A lot of folks pay attention to town/city council races, but pay scant attention to school committee elections. The School Committee makes School policy, buys Textbooks, and so shapes how your kid is brainwashed educated. Yeah that's definitely a really good idea, but I don't have any kids so I have no way to see what the textbooks they're using are. So I still have to wonder. |
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How about 5 British Infantryman (modern) vs 50 American Revolutionary War infantrymen?
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Quoted: Armed with L85? I guess they're heavy enough to use as clubs after they catastrophically jam, maybe that will work out in their favor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: How about 5 British Infantryman (modern) vs 50 American Revolutionary War infantrymen? Armed with L85? I guess they're heavy enough to use as clubs after they catastrophically jam, maybe that will work out in their favor. If the Brits have L1A1s then it's a whole other story though. |
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Just to be pedantic for a moment, dragoons aren't really cavalry. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Just to be pedantic for a moment, dragoons aren't really cavalry. If they bitch while they walk, they're cavalry. |
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If the Brits have L1A1s then it's a whole other story though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How about 5 British Infantryman (modern) vs 50 American Revolutionary War infantrymen? Armed with L85? I guess they're heavy enough to use as clubs after they catastrophically jam, maybe that will work out in their favor. If the Brits have L1A1s then it's a whole other story though. But but but 20 round mags and uncontrollable auto!!! L1A1 would cut through a revolutionary war cavalry troop like shit through a goose. |
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Modern infantry before the dragoons even get with in effective musket range lmao
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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e3/e30930f090a2bf89c426c522edee2099a684458810ebf6d5ba47e25c4908e94c.jpg View Quote Dunno. We seem to be in a race to the bottom. |
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L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How about 5 British Infantryman (modern) vs 50 American Revolutionary War infantrymen? Armed with L85? I guess they're heavy enough to use as clubs after they catastrophically jam, maybe that will work out in their favor. If the Brits have L1A1s then it's a whole other story though. But but but 20 round mags and uncontrollable auto!!! L1A1 would cut through a revolutionary war cavalry troop like shit through a goose. L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE How quaint. |
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Quoted: L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE View Quote Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. |
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Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. Well read this US report Basra bayonet charge |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. Well read this US report Basra bayonet charge Oh I know it was effective, but it had to have been very strange to witness seeing as how bullpups don't scream "Gonna stab ya" really. Plus they were a Scottish regiment, being half-Scottish myself I know Scots are liable charge anyone, anytime even if just with with a small knife for paring fruit so long as it seems like a good idea at the time. |
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The problem is that doing so would require one side of the fight to not know about the technological advantage of the other side. In truth, I would expect the technological inferiors to bolt in the face of what, to them, was magic--deadly magic. Nothing instills fear more than the unknown. I think it was some Science fiction author that once said "Technology, sufficiently advanced, is magic". Tough to fight magic. I think that under the right circumstances, a few of the Brit leaders dropped in their tracks, would cause the rest to retire in haste. Assuming sound suppressors on the delivering firearms, in great haste. People ignore the psychological factor at their peril. The fact that some Brits--presumably the leaders, since they were so conspicuous-- were hit very early on would have collapsed the morale of the Brits and likely caused a rout. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This should be a History Channel series. Call it Fire Team. Introduce a Fire Team into historical battles and debate whether they would change the outcome. Then re-enact the battle with the fire team to see the outcome. The problem is that doing so would require one side of the fight to not know about the technological advantage of the other side. In truth, I would expect the technological inferiors to bolt in the face of what, to them, was magic--deadly magic. Nothing instills fear more than the unknown. I think it was some Science fiction author that once said "Technology, sufficiently advanced, is magic". Tough to fight magic. I think that under the right circumstances, a few of the Brit leaders dropped in their tracks, would cause the rest to retire in haste. Assuming sound suppressors on the delivering firearms, in great haste. People ignore the psychological factor at their peril. The fact that some Brits--presumably the leaders, since they were so conspicuous-- were hit very early on would have collapsed the morale of the Brits and likely caused a rout. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - I can't remember who, but I think it was actually a scientist, maybe Neil Degrasse Tyson. |
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If they bitch while they walk, they're cavalry. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Just to be pedantic for a moment, dragoons aren't really cavalry. If they bitch while they walk, they're cavalry. |
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- I can't remember who, but I think it was actually a scientist, maybe Neil Degrasse Tyson. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This should be a History Channel series. Call it Fire Team. Introduce a Fire Team into historical battles and debate whether they would change the outcome. Then re-enact the battle with the fire team to see the outcome. The problem is that doing so would require one side of the fight to not know about the technological advantage of the other side. In truth, I would expect the technological inferiors to bolt in the face of what, to them, was magic--deadly magic. Nothing instills fear more than the unknown. I think it was some Science fiction author that once said "Technology, sufficiently advanced, is magic". Tough to fight magic. I think that under the right circumstances, a few of the Brit leaders dropped in their tracks, would cause the rest to retire in haste. Assuming sound suppressors on the delivering firearms, in great haste. People ignore the psychological factor at their peril. The fact that some Brits--presumably the leaders, since they were so conspicuous-- were hit very early on would have collapsed the morale of the Brits and likely caused a rout. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - I can't remember who, but I think it was actually a scientist, maybe Neil Degrasse Tyson. Arthur C. Clarke, folks. Arthur C. Clarke. |
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Oh I know it was effective, but it had to have been very strange to witness seeing as how bullpups don't scream "Gonna stab ya" really. Plus they were a Scottish regiment, being half-Scottish myself I know Scots are liable charge anyone, anytime even if just with with a small knife for paring fruit so long as it seems like a good idea at the time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. Well read this US report Basra bayonet charge Oh I know it was effective, but it had to have been very strange to witness seeing as how bullpups don't scream "Gonna stab ya" really. Plus they were a Scottish regiment, being half-Scottish myself I know Scots are liable charge anyone, anytime even if just with with a small knife for paring fruit so long as it seems like a good idea at the time. One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn |
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One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn View Quote Awesome! |
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5 infantrymen win......that's only 10 dragoons/soldier.
It would be a turkey shoot. 20" A2's and iron sights .......still a turkey shoot. Dragoons would have to get within 25-30 yds to have any accuracy with their smoothbores. Infantry could have bets on which coat button to shoot at 200 yds. |
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One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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L1A1 was never full auto The L85A2 works If it happened to not work The British have a back-up plan...........the Bayonet. And we love a good old Bayonet charge Just ask the Argies or the Shias in Basra [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxFgSmR0i3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Op1zjd7KKE Good points too. Although a bayonet charge with L85A2s would be, well let's just say it'd be something special to witness and leave it at that... Since I was a kid I've always liked the L1A1, I blame Soldier of Fortune magazine and all those '70s and '80s mercenary movies. One time when I was around 15 or so and we were talking about guns my uncle said that he liked them too, he got to play around with one for a bit when he was in Vietnam and some Australian troops were operating in the same area that they were. He said he wouldn't have traded his M-16 for one though but still considered them fine weapons. Well read this US report Basra bayonet charge Oh I know it was effective, but it had to have been very strange to witness seeing as how bullpups don't scream "Gonna stab ya" really. Plus they were a Scottish regiment, being half-Scottish myself I know Scots are liable charge anyone, anytime even if just with with a small knife for paring fruit so long as it seems like a good idea at the time. One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn With no deaths, too, if I recall. The Falklands expedition was an interesting story. |
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Quoted: One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn View Quote Now that's a good story right there there. I'd definitely buy your friend a pint if I could. |
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Now that's a good story right there there. I'd definitely buy your friend a pint if I could. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn Now that's a good story right there there. I'd definitely buy your friend a pint if I could. He doesn't drink He said that when the fix bayonets order was given, they all went "oh bloody hell" What he also said that he had a 2lb charge in his belt kit, and while prone a 7.62rd went through the pouch next to it. Thoroughly nice guy and the actions are all valid and documented. The Argies got pushed off the mountain that night, but casualties were high on both sides |
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Tarleton's Dragoons - no. William Washington's 3rd Continental Light Dragoons - maybe.
Look at the battles of Gilford Courthouse and Cowpens (the battles that The Patriot's last battle scene is very loosely based on). I may be a little biased. I had an ancestor who was a Private in the 3rd. But, if you look at those battles the Dragoons were probably the badest bad-asses of the war. |
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Quoted: He doesn't drink He said that when the fix bayonets order was given, they all went "oh bloody hell" What he also said that he had a 2lb charge in his belt kit, and while prone a 7.62rd went through the pouch next to it. Thoroughly nice guy and the actions are all valid and documented. The Argies got pushed off the mountain that night, but casualties were high on both sides View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of my friends was involved in the Bayonet charge on Two Sisters in the Falklands. Brian was a young Marine in Zulu Troop, 45 Commando Royal Marines. He had already received a gunshot wound to the shoulder in N Ireland at 17 years old, and was flown back to Britain the same night as they realised he was under-age to be on active duty! Anyway he told me they were in the reserve company but got called up on the flank and went into the attack just after midnight. The fighting was fierce and he had a few near misses. About 3hrs into the battle, the OC realised they were running low on ammo and wouldn't be able to complete the assault, so he shouted out the command "Zulu Zulu, Fix bayonets" He said they all turned to each other and said "did he just say fix bayonets?" So they did and charged up the hill and won the battle just before dawn Now that's a good story right there there. I'd definitely buy your friend a pint if I could. He doesn't drink He said that when the fix bayonets order was given, they all went "oh bloody hell" What he also said that he had a 2lb charge in his belt kit, and while prone a 7.62rd went through the pouch next to it. Thoroughly nice guy and the actions are all valid and documented. The Argies got pushed off the mountain that night, but casualties were high on both sides Fair enough, well I'd buy him a nice cup of tea then. Yeah hearing "fix bayonets" would probably make most people say "oh bloody hell"...at the very least. I remember watching the Falkland's War on the news when it was going on, I was pretty young (like 9 going on 10) but even then I thought that sailing all the way to the bottom of the world to sort some people out was a very British thing to do. |
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With no deaths, too, if I recall. The Falklands expedition was an interesting story. No, they did suffer a few Were't there two posthumous Victoria Crosses awarded for the Falklands. One, I believe, was for that bayonet charge. |
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H Jones!
To those who say, "His attack was foolish." BULLOCKS! |
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This should be a History Channel series. Call it Fire Team. Introduce a Fire Team into historical battles and debate whether they would change the outcome. Then re-enact the battle with the fire team to see the outcome. View Quote Video game for history nerds, profs, and War College. |
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The Britishers were also trained in volley fire. I don't know too much about the Alamo apart from Davy Crockett being there, but weren't the defenders basically a rabble? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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More interesting question... Could those same 5 grunts with the same load out have changed the outcome of the Battle of the Alamo? Assuming they were fighting alongside the existing defenders. There's some debate on whether the Texicans could have set up an inner perimeter--like the Brits did at Roarke's Drift, maintained better alertness during the night, and fought off the final Mexican onslaught. We'll never know, but likely the outcome would have been the same, assuming Santa Anna (correctly) assumed that he could not leave such an outpost in his rear. I don't think the volley firing used to break the Zulu charges, initiated at over 300 yards, could have been replicated at the Alamo. Martini Henry's could be loaded faster and were much more accurate than a flintlock musket. Most of the British casualties suffered at Rorke's Drift came from the rifle armed Zulus, who looted the dead at Isandlwana, firing from the nearby hilltop. The Britishers were also trained in volley fire. I don't know too much about the Alamo apart from Davy Crockett being there, but weren't the defenders basically a rabble? Those were Tennesseans and Texans. Hardly rabble. |
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Greene was at the Siege of Boston, and wherever Washington went thereafter until he sent Greene off into semi-independent command in the South. Apparently the very military and disciplined camps of the Rhode Islanders made an impression on Washington, compared to the other encampments, some of which, according to Washington, were despicable. Greene was, at best, a competent field General, but he had to deal with the situations in which he was placed. Apparently, over the years, with both of them growing in knowledge, Washington came to hold Greene in [I[very[/I] high esteem. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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but weren't the defenders basically a rabble? The same rabble that kicked ass at Saratoga, Bunker Hill, Trenton, Cowpens, and Yorktown... Thanks to this power bottom: http://www.bergencountyhistory.org/Events/Baron_von_Steuben196.jpg He wasn't on scene till after Saratoga, Bunker Hill, and Trenton.... Not sure if he was any part of helping the units at the Cowpens (anyone know)? In any even they all reported to a VA Militia Colonel. Greene was at the Siege of Boston, and wherever Washington went thereafter until he sent Greene off into semi-independent command in the South. Apparently the very military and disciplined camps of the Rhode Islanders made an impression on Washington, compared to the other encampments, some of which, according to Washington, were despicable. Greene was, at best, a competent field General, but he had to deal with the situations in which he was placed. Apparently, over the years, with both of them growing in knowledge, Washington came to hold Greene in [I[very[/I] high esteem. Buy my BIL's book: The Drillmaster of Valley Forge: The Baron de Steuben and the Making of the American Army |
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They would shred a battalion size unit (IIRC about 400 men at the time) assuming good cover in prepared position. And that would lead to rumors a Brigade or more is defending the area.
First the unit of Dragoons. Then a company, then a battalion, etc. Assuming about a 40% kill rate (with 900 rounds) they would be overcome by the Brigade, if the English committed it. |
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Those were Tennesseans and Texans. Hardly rabble. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Britishers were also trained in volley fire. I don't know too much about the Alamo apart from Davy Crockett being there, but weren't the defenders basically a rabble? Those were Tennesseans and Texans. Hardly rabble. Were they well drilled? What year drill manual was Sam Houston's Army using at that point? The 1813 Hand Book for Infantry was copied from English manuals, and were decades old. Could the regulars or volunteers fire three rounds per minute? Could they march 20 miles a day and fight a battle at the end? We're they well disciplined? Were their leaders experienced officers? Did they understand logistics and have a proper system in place for supporting their army? No, the defenders of the Alamo and the rest of were incapable of all that. The Europeans, French, British, Prussians, were the standard of military excellence at time. We had a miniscule national standing army, our militia system was outdated, and being Texan or from Tennessee had nothing to do with proper soldiering. We were always 10-20 years behind the times of European advances and because nobody put an emphasis on a proper army, it showed. Years later one of the greatest military minds of the 19th century said this about why he didn't feel the need to study the great captains of the American Civil War, where our armies were much improved from the Texan and Mexican wars, "nothing more than the leaders of mobs of armed rabble roaming the countryside." Sucks to say this but it was absolutely true statement when compared to the European standard. As a former professional soldier I can honestly say we generally sucked ass until about WWII. |
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We've already chewed this tobacco 142 years ago: Quannah Parker and 700-1500 Indians armed with pistols and .44 rimfire rifles against 29 buffalo hunters armed with Sharps rifles. Close enough to the OP's scenario.
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Were they well drilled? What year drill manual was Sam Houston's Army using at that point? The 1813 Hand Book for Infantry was copied from English manuals, and were decades old. Could the regulars or volunteers fire three rounds per minute? Could they march 20 miles a day and fight a battle at the end? We're they well disciplined? Were their leaders experienced officers? Did they understand logistics and have a proper system in place for supporting their army? No, the defenders of the Alamo and the rest of were incapable of all that. The Europeans, French, British, Prussians, were the standard of military excellence at time. We had a miniscule national standing army, our militia system was outdated, and being Texan or from Tennessee had nothing to do with proper soldiering. We were always 10-20 years behind the times of European advances and because nobody put an emphasis on a proper army, it showed. Years later one of the greatest military minds of the 19th century said this about why he didn't feel the need to study the great captains of the American Civil War, where our armies were much improved from the Texan and Mexican wars, "nothing more than the leaders of mobs of armed rabble roaming the countryside." Sucks to say this but it was absolutely true statement when compared to the European standard. As a former professional soldier I can honestly say we generally sucked ass until about WWII. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Britishers were also trained in volley fire. I don't know too much about the Alamo apart from Davy Crockett being there, but weren't the defenders basically a rabble? Those were Tennesseans and Texans. Hardly rabble. Were they well drilled? What year drill manual was Sam Houston's Army using at that point? The 1813 Hand Book for Infantry was copied from English manuals, and were decades old. Could the regulars or volunteers fire three rounds per minute? Could they march 20 miles a day and fight a battle at the end? We're they well disciplined? Were their leaders experienced officers? Did they understand logistics and have a proper system in place for supporting their army? No, the defenders of the Alamo and the rest of were incapable of all that. The Europeans, French, British, Prussians, were the standard of military excellence at time. We had a miniscule national standing army, our militia system was outdated, and being Texan or from Tennessee had nothing to do with proper soldiering. We were always 10-20 years behind the times of European advances and because nobody put an emphasis on a proper army, it showed. Years later one of the greatest military minds of the 19th century said this about why he didn't feel the need to study the great captains of the American Civil War, where our armies were much improved from the Texan and Mexican wars, "nothing more than the leaders of mobs of armed rabble roaming the countryside." Sucks to say this but it was absolutely true statement when compared to the European standard. As a former professional soldier I can honestly say we generally sucked ass until about WWII. Go to Walgreens, ask for a humor gene. |
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Its well known that musket balls tumble as they fly causing further injury.
And an injured Dragoon takes like 5 others out of combat due to squealing like a pig. |
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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e3/e30930f090a2bf89c426c522edee2099a684458810ebf6d5ba47e25c4908e94c.jpg View Quote Shittier than a gun-grabbing socialist Monarchy? Maybe if Hilary us elected but not today. |
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- I can't remember who, but I think it was actually a scientist, maybe Neil Degrasse Tyson. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This should be a History Channel series. Call it Fire Team. Introduce a Fire Team into historical battles and debate whether they would change the outcome. Then re-enact the battle with the fire team to see the outcome. The problem is that doing so would require one side of the fight to not know about the technological advantage of the other side. In truth, I would expect the technological inferiors to bolt in the face of what, to them, was magic--deadly magic. Nothing instills fear more than the unknown. I think it was some Science fiction author that once said "Technology, sufficiently advanced, is magic". Tough to fight magic. I think that under the right circumstances, a few of the Brit leaders dropped in their tracks, would cause the rest to retire in haste. Assuming sound suppressors on the delivering firearms, in great haste. People ignore the psychological factor at their peril. The fact that some Brits--presumably the leaders, since they were so conspicuous-- were hit very early on would have collapsed the morale of the Brits and likely caused a rout. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - I can't remember who, but I think it was actually a scientist, maybe Neil Degrasse Tyson. No It was said LONG before that asshole was making noise. It came from Arthur C. Clarke |
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Quoted: Santa Ana had upwards of 6,000 men at his disposal with artillery support........so no. Unless the 5 grunts in question were all from Texas......then yes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: More interesting question... Could those same 5 grunts with the same load out have changed the outcome of the Battle of the Alamo? Assuming they were fighting alongside the existing defenders. Santa Ana had upwards of 6,000 men at his disposal with artillery support........so no. Unless the 5 grunts in question were all from Texas......then yes. Psychological warfare would be epic. Day one. Santa Anna takes a 55gr fmj to the chest/head. Followed by 4 of his generals. (The "observation" area of officers during battles in that time period were well within the effective range of a modern m4/AR15) Also, the Mexican army was comprised of mostly conscripts. Cut off the head, and the body dies in that situation |
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