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Posted: 2/29/2024 6:57:53 PM EDT
[#1]
If he's just shooting to become proficient in a weapon or hunting squirrels, a .410 isn't a bad option. Wouldn't a single-shot .410 fit the bill?
I can find .410 shells around here. They don't have as many as they do 12ga, but it's still there. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 7:58:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he's just shooting to become proficient in a weapon or hunting squirrels, a .410 isn't a bad option. Wouldn't a single-shot .410 fit the bill? I can find .410 shells around here. They don't have as many as they do 12ga, but it's still there. A single shot would. I don't like an exposed hammer for kids though and I don't think nef guns are any cheaper than stoegers. I have my 20 gauge single shot I've had since I was a kid. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 8:00:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryI've never looked. Do they make a #6 low recoil load? |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 8:44:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never looked. Do they make a #6 low recoil load? Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never looked. Do they make a #6 low recoil load? That's the only Winchester load I know of. Maybe Federal or Rio. Used to be a lot of subsonic loads for 12 ga that all used the same now discontinued Winchester powder. Drop 3/4 oz of #6 in there & recrimp? |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 9:33:27 PM EDT
[#5]
My first gun was a Mossberg 183 with a cut down stock that my father gave me on Christmas 1973. My brother received one also with a full stock.
We learned to shoot dove on those on the Colorado River south of Yuma at a time when Yuma advertised itself as "The dove hunting capitol of the world." (ETA I just looked it up. They still call it the dove capitol of the U.S.) I still have it - loaded with brenneke slugs. I also have a Mossberg 500 in 410 that is my skunk whacker of choice with birdshot. Love the round. 183 with a Remington slug:  500 with Federal 9 pellet #4 buck:  |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 9:39:26 PM EDT
[#6]
20 gauge
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Posted: 2/29/2024 9:44:36 PM EDT
[#7]
I started hunting on a Mossberg bolt action .410 and still have that gun.
I do love a 20 gauge. Second gun was a Mossberg 20 gauge pump....and I still have that gun too. You never outgrow a 20 gauge IMO. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 10:12:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .410 ammo is really hard to source And expensive. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 10:19:28 PM EDT
[#9]
410 ammo is not very available. Of those i choose 20 but i would rather go 16
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Posted: 2/29/2024 10:20:15 PM EDT
[#10]
No love for the 28ga?
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Posted: 2/29/2024 10:20:31 PM EDT
[#11]
5 years old? .410.
[edit] you can also reload light 20ga loads. |
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Posted: 2/29/2024 10:38:33 PM EDT
[#12]
A 28 gauge is what you want. Light guns low recoil. Enough shot so the youngster will be more likely to hit a target.
Like every one said. 410 are expert guns and 20 guage are going to kick a little guy making them recoil shy. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 7:41:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't mind starting with the 410, then giving him a 20 gauge and taking the 410 for myself. But yeah, squirrels and targets will be first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: First shotgun for what? If you are looking for a first shotgun for shooting at squirrels or stationary targets, .410 would be fine. With its dimunitive stock, the Rossi Tuffy is a nice gun for very small statured people. If you wanted him to be doing something more reminiscent of wingshooting, a 20 would be better (and probably not something that would be advisable for a 5 year old). I wouldn't mind starting with the 410, then giving him a 20 gauge and taking the 410 for myself. But yeah, squirrels and targets will be first. I gave my son a rossi tuffy when he was about 5. 2.5" target loads kicked too much because the gun was so lite, so I made some reduced recoil reloads that he could practice with until he got used to it. 5.5 gr of Unique and .5 oz of shot is very tame in the gun with plenty of power to bust stationary clays and soda cans in the backyard. When he got bigger I found this stock that is more comfortable for him to use. He is 10 now and can easily handle 3" shells. Recently he got his first rabbit with it  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 7:44:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Right now, at least from what I’ve seen 410 ammo is very hard to find. 20 gauge on the other hand is mostly available. I’d chose 20 gauge just based on that alone.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:04:32 AM EDT
[#15]
20 gauge, .410’s are about worthless.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:10:07 AM EDT
[#16]
.410 or 20, The MOST important thing with a shotgun is the fit. The stock and barrel must be a decent fit for the shooter or you're only reinforcing improper form. So, whichever gauge you choose please leave a little in the budget to get the gun fitted to his frame.
That said: I'd go for the 20guage. There's just so many more options in factory shells. If you like to shoot a lot, a Lee makes their LEE Load-ALL II in 20 gauge and I can tell you with confidence that cranking out 500-1000 shells a week, after school, is totally doable! The neat thing is you can tailor the loads you make to control recoil and pattern. Let the .410 be his grown up gun, If he/you wants one. I get it. I love mine but I bought it when I was 47 and very good with a shotgun. Whatever you choose to do, Good on you for bringing up a shooter! |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:11:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Walmarts in your area? Yes but they have not had any in a couple of years |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:13:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This, 20 is much easier. Have you considered a 28ga? Also a lite 20ga shell is easy to control. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good luck finding .410 ammo. This, 20 is much easier. Have you considered a 28ga? Also a lite 20ga shell is easy to control. Until you get to high brass standard #4 game loads or heavier there's really not much kick to it at all. I'm sure you already knew this though. Good Hunting! |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:15:12 AM EDT
[#19]
20 gauge for sure. A .410 is an experts gun.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:18:13 AM EDT
[#20]
I would go 20, it can do just about everything.
410 ammo is unobtanium and while I do love a 410 sxs you're going to be limited in use compared to a 20. eta: I wouldn't go coach gun length for a first gun. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:18:45 AM EDT
[#21]
IMHO - .410 is good for a kid’s first shots but not really a first gun. It’s easy recoiling (due to typically the half payload) but new shooters can quickly become frustrated with the challenge it is to break clays with that reduced shot count. Factory shells are expensive.
A 20ga, built on a 20ga sized receiver is good because you can find loads that range from super light target to home defense and everything in between. Shells are harder to find and more expensive than 12ga as well. Honestly, a 12 gauge with an LOP that fits the shooter and a barrel length that does make the gun unwieldy isn’t a bad choice for a new shooter. Super light target loads combined with a gun that fits the shooter can make 12 ga as easy to handle as the other options. In my experience, new shotgun shooters either give up quickly due to the frustration of not breaking clays OR they quickly progress and want something with more versatility than the .410 offers. Ironically, experienced shooters seem to gravitate BACK to the .410 looking for a new challenge. Personally, I have this whole crazy ‘thing for all things .410. It’s a GREAT little shell for what it offers but it is not what I put into a young shooters hands beyond plinking some static targets on the berm. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:30:33 AM EDT
[#22]
I have both, started with a 12ga, don't even own one anymore. I'm strictly a 20ga guy, but I remember toting around my Dad's old 410 sxs for squirrels, rabbits, grouse, was nothing better when you're 13yo!
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:40:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't mind .410, but .410 users are like Corvette owners. Neither one will shut the fuck up about how great their shit is. ETA - Old man... something... cloud.  
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:43:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go with 20ga it's my personal favorite and can do anything you need it to This, A 410 kicks a bit less but the ammo is expensive and it's harder to hit anything. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:49:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I would check your AO to see if 410 ammo is available easily, and also make sure it 410 you can actually use for your purposes. Around here the only 410 is Hornady Critical Defense loads for Judges, which doesn’t really suit your need. I started about his age shooting clays with a double barrel 410, which I still have. A good place to start. Never had interest nor need for a 20ga, so cannot comment on that. Just went from 410 to 12ga once I was old enough, but still honestly have more fun with the 410.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#26]
I bought my son a Stoeger youth O/U 410 to him to start shotgunning with when he was 5 or 6. the size of it enabled him to handle it very well.
VERY GOOD Shotgun for that purpose. when he was 8 I moved him to a 20 gauge 870 youth. my Son was killing Mallards and Grays in decoys with that .410 out to 20-25 yards clean and he learned the fundamentals of shotgunning very quickly. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:56:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck finding .410 ammo. It is available. Just bought 5 boxes. Quit looking for it at chyna mart. .410 is an experts bore size for a meat gun and 20 ga is a lot more available and more shot sizes to choose from. I vote 20. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 8:59:43 AM EDT
[#28]
I want to say 20ga for ease of finding ammo and it’s a good shotgun to grow into.
But- We got a Maverick 20ga for our 12 year old for Christmas. Decent gun and while he handles it fine, the recoil really isn’t much less than the 12ga to me. So I have to vote 410 on this one. Are you set up to load shotgun shells? |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:02:40 AM EDT
[#29]
.410 sucks because it doesn't throw much shot .
From a use standpoint 28 ga is way better. Finding shells for either is pretty tough and both are crazy pricey . 20ga is the way to go , a smaller , younger kid may be able to handle it with light trap and skeet type loads but 5 year olds really are not going to be able to handle things for at least a couple of years. One of the issues of "youth model" shotguns is when you downsize the stock and barrel so the smaller kid has a chance with it you wind up with a quite light gun and then the recoil gets fairly fierce. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:04:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No love for the 28ga? $$$$ hard to find ammo |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:07:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 28 gauge is what you want. Light guns low recoil. Enough shot so the youngster will be more likely to hit a target. Like every one said. 410 are expert guns and 20 guage are going to kick a little guy making them recoil shy. 410 are only 'expert' guns if you're shooting trap from the 16 yard line - just because some NRA dude, smoking unfiltered lucky strikes in 1961 wrote that in a book for shotgun 'instructors' doesn't make it so. 28 ga is even harder to find than .410 - both the guns and the ammo |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:48:32 AM EDT
[#32]
under 8 years old, the size and handling characteristics of a small .410 are far better suited for the frame of a young child. if the gun doesn't fit them its worthless and only causes more problems.
I've been a Shotgunner my entire life and an shotgun instructor for close to 15 years. I love 20 gauges and move kids up to 20 very fast, as soon as they can handle the size of the shotgun which is normally around 8-9. my son was shooting Ducks, Rabbits, Squirrels, Raccoons and Possums routinely with his .410. but, I spent a ton of time working on fundamentals and skills. everything he learned and experienced with the .410 made him a monster with a 20 and 12. you can have shotgun shells delivered to your door, if they aren't available locally. I buy them by the cases |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:56:20 AM EDT
[#33]
My first gun at about 5 yo was a single barrel 20 gauge cut down to fit me. It left bruises every time i shot it. My uncle, who shotgunned competively, borrowed it for a canoe and made sure I never shot again when he got back because it kicked so bad. It became the gun no one in the family wanted to shoot. My cousin tried trade it back to me for my youngest and I just laughed.
I love 410 and 12 however. Would 12 gauge and try minishells work as a starter and work up to low recoil loads? |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 10:05:59 AM EDT
[#34]
A 410 is a poor choice...
Shot charges are small. Pattern density is poor. Many 410 Bores are choked full, in an attempt to keep pattern density a bit better. Extend ranges out to 25, 30 yards and now you start to get large holes in the pattern. You can help alleviate this by moving to smaller shot (#8 instead of #6) but know pellet energy and penetration suck... While 410 is "okay" on squirrels, its a real handicap on flying game. You are far better off with 20 ga. Ammo is cheaper, more readily available, and can be found in lighter kicking varieties. I am a HUGE fan of 28 Ga. I get near 20 Ga performance (and similar shot charges) within a smaller, lighter framed shotgun. However, ammo scarcity and cost are a killer. Buy a 20. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 11:25:08 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 3/1/2024 12:48:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 410 are only 'expert' guns if you're shooting trap from the 16 yard line - just because some NRA dude, smoking unfiltered lucky strikes in 1961 wrote that in a book for shotgun 'instructors' doesn't make it so . . . There's a few reasons why the old guys on the skeet range shoot .410. Yes, the guns are cute. Yes, there's almost no recoil. Yes, the guns are light. But the main reason is because it's harder to shoot well with a .410. Once you reach the point where shooting a clean 25 at skeet is routine, you look for more challenge. The .410 offers that challenge (and bragging rights when you pull it off). |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:23:19 PM EDT
[#37]
410 would be my choice only for reduced recoil. Ammo is hard to find in my AO has been for a long time. I used to have a 22LR over 410 but sold it.
20GA does everything I need from a shotgun, but my shorter single shots have some kick. I have a Rossi youth matched pair, 22LR barrel and 20GA that is a great gun. Could be had less than $100 brand new about 10 years ago. If I were the OP I would get both.  You still get single shots brand new for less than $200... https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/108597/rock+island+armory+tk104+traditional+break+open+.410+20+3+polymer+woodgrain+s https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/128010/rossi+ssp1tan+tuffy+youth+.410+ga+18.50+1+matte+black+tan+fixed+thumbhole+stock+right+hand |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:25:33 PM EDT
[#38]
The .410 is a handicap from the start. Go with the 20.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:34:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never looked. Do they make a #6 low recoil load? Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never looked. Do they make a #6 low recoil load? I'd guess probably not as most trap/skeet ranges have a max shot size of 7.5. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:39:34 PM EDT
[#40]
410s are worthless past 10 yards, something to consider.
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:46:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until you get to high brass standard #4 game loads or heavier there's really not much kick to it at all. I'm sure you already knew this though. Good Hunting! Aye but I’d still say 20ga and I was shooting .410’s at age 5 or so. Unless you want to start reloading .410 it’s not worth it. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 gauge because you can feed it bottom line |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 4:42:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: I want to get a new sxs for small game hunting / camping. The stoeger coach guns would be great in our thick woods, canoes, etc. I honestly can't remember the last time I shot a 410. Is it worth it? I'm thinking my 5yo could start with it. I would recommend the .410 over the 20 gauge, especially at that age. I have a Stoeger side by side in .410 if you would like to try it out before you buy one. I don't think I'm too far from you. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 5:16:08 PM EDT
[#44]
.410 is sweet to shoot if you can find it. Plenty in stock at Renaissance if you want to make the drive.
The lower shot volumes and longer shot column can make it frustrating for newer shooters, but that is why we train. Older single shots are almost free. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 9:39:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what I'm thinking https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000000458_jpg-3145184.JPG I shipped a gun to an arfcommer through them. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 10:54:47 PM EDT
[#46]
My sons first shotgun was a stover double barrel .410. Started cowboy action with it. Hard to use on dove but still fun. He killed a lot of stuff with it.
It is sitting in the kitchen window right now for my wife to use. He always did well at our informal skeet shoots with it. Just grabbed it to see if the coyotes were close enough to try. No joy. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 11:02:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 410s are worthless past 10 yards, something to consider. Bullshit isn't something to consider. 
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Posted: 3/1/2024 11:05:52 PM EDT
[#48]
I started killing deer with 20ga slugs at 12 y.o., no problem and was wing shooting with a 12ga before that. .410 is limited in ammo and application.
Buy a reasonable 20 or 12. |
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Posted: 3/1/2024 11:08:49 PM EDT
[#49]
I skipped .410 and went to 20 gauge.
Recoil from a 3” 20 gauge turkey load in a single shot was brutal but my 10 year old daughter was able to shoot her first turkey with it. I loaded some light loads with 3/4 ounce of #6 and my 7 year old got his first squirrel with it last fall. 
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Posted: 3/2/2024 3:02:42 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $$$$ hard to find ammo Every Walmart here carries it. I can buy it at the range, four local gun shops or Academy. It is the best way to start a kid out right. 20ga is a distant second, but it is cheaper and bulk ammo is more available. |
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