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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:30:16 PM EDT
[#1]
There is also the "JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund" which seems to have performed well over the last two years. Is this what is meant by an index fund? It is hard to tell the fees, but is appears to be about 1.2%
JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund Expenses as of 07/31/2023 Total Investment Expense - Gross:1.23% Total Investment Expense - Net:1.19% Waiver Date:10/31/2023 12b-1 Fee:0.50% Total Investment Expense Gross Per $1,000 Invested:$12.30 |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:34:09 PM EDT
[#2]
It's a snapshot of data points 2 years apart. The market tanked majorly in 2022 and is almost back to the 2021 highs.
The major indexes today are just a hair under where they were on August 4th 2021. This is why you put your money in less risky and more stable investments as you get older - if you had to get your money out 1 year ago you'd be down 10-20% or so. Have you been contributing to your 401k for the last 2 years? If so and that -2% includes your contributions you're getting screwed. I assume the -2% is investment returns, which is roughly what they should be. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:35:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Look at the number of shares you own if you're not at retirement age. Value doesn't matter until you start drawing.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:36:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is also the "JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund" which seems to have performed well over the last two years. Is this what is meant by an index fund? It is hard to tell the fees, but is appears to be about 1.2% JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund Expenses as of 07/31/2023 Total Investment Expense - Gross:1.23% Total Investment Expense - Net:1.19% Waiver Date:10/31/2023 12b-1 Fee:0.50% Total Investment Expense Gross Per $1,000 Invested:$12.30 Those fees are rather high. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:38:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do Day trading, but you don't know what the Hybrid account holds? Check that, plus check the fees. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:38:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a snapshot of data points 2 years apart. The market tanked majorly in 2022 and is almost back to the 2021 highs. The major indexes today are just a hair under where they were on August 4th 2021. This is why you put your money in less risky and more stable investments as you get older - if you had to get your money out 1 year ago you'd be down 10-20% or so. Have you been contributing to your 401k for the last 2 years? If so and that -2% includes your contributions you're getting screwed. I assume the -2% is investment returns, which is roughly what they should be. Yes, the -2% is investment returns. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:38:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Down only 2% over the last two years. That's a lot better than I'm doing. I think my account went down nearly 30% in 2021. It's up 16.5% ytd, and around 8% over the past year.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:41:44 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:42:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I switched over to a target date retirement fund last fall. I want to retire at 62, in 6 years. They are managing and adjusting as need see fits. It’s gone up about $20k, so I can’t complain. Unless I’m missing something. I’m at 8 out of 10 for comfort with risk. They did move me to more bonds, but still lower than stock holdings at my request. Thoughts? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Am I doing something wrong? I do better than that day trading Robinhood. The account is with Principal. I am in what is called the Lifetime Hybrid 2045 meaning that is my planned retire date. Get out of target-date funds. The fees will suck you dry. I invested in some target-date funds when I was younger and more naive. They typically have sky-high fees. The fees are like a parasite, feasting on your money. But they always eat, whether you are making money or losing money. They also tend to be overly conservative for someone with a decent risk tolerance. I'm 95% sure my portfolio is doing better than that over the same time period. I switched over to a target date retirement fund last fall. I want to retire at 62, in 6 years. They are managing and adjusting as need see fits. It’s gone up about $20k, so I can’t complain. Unless I’m missing something. I’m at 8 out of 10 for comfort with risk. They did move me to more bonds, but still lower than stock holdings at my request. Thoughts? How much you are up in $ tells you nothing about how well your fund is performing. You can be up 5% in a year where the total market is up 20% and think you are doing well because 5% is a positive number. Just wait until the market has a bad year. You need to look at: 1) The fees your fund is charging you 2) What your fund is actually invested in 3) How it's performing relative to some benchmark that is meaningful to you. Only then can you really say if you should complain or not. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:44:24 PM EDT
[#11]
A few months ago I just got back to my precovid amount. Its climbing faster now, but covid messed up most people's accounts I think.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:45:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Your fees seem really high, mine are around on .33% on domestic stock funds, .65% for international and .80% for emerging markets.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:46:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get out of target-date funds. The fees will suck you dry. I invested in some target-date funds when I was younger and more naive. They typically have sky-high fees. The fees are like a parasite, feasting on your money. But they always eat, whether you are making money or losing money. They also tend to be overly conservative for someone with a decent risk tolerance. I'm 95% sure my portfolio is doing better than that over the same time period. This correct get out of date funds. I had some lifepaths funds that did horrible. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:48:12 PM EDT
[#14]
What are acceptable fees? I do have a current target date fund- my new job doesn't have many options.
Looks like it has a .15 % gross and a .09% net fee ratio. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#15]
That's about right, for where the market was exactly 2 years ago today. From there it went up about 7% more and then dropped 24%, and now we're on the way back up. It's the luck of the draw that you are comparing against 2 years ago and the market was at about the same level. You should be more interested in the general trend that it currently is on, I think. The stock market is up about 10% over the last 3 or so months.
You don't have a stock app on your phone? Mine (apple) I can track whatever I want, so I track VTI, which is a total stock market fund (contains all the stocks in the stock market, and is probably (eta) similar to the main holding in your retirement date fund). The app has a graph, and I can change the timeline on the graph to see where we are no compared to whenever. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:51:16 PM EDT
[#16]
My TSP got wrecked for 18 months. Up 19% ytd but still sad all the lost growth.
At least I kept buying at the discount |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:51:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is also the "JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund" which seems to have performed well over the last two years. Is this what is meant by an index fund? It is hard to tell the fees, but is appears to be about 1.2% JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund Expenses as of 07/31/2023 Total Investment Expense - Gross:1.23% Total Investment Expense - Net:1.19% Waiver Date:10/31/2023 12b-1 Fee:0.50% Total Investment Expense Gross Per $1,000 Invested:$12.30 I would never pay a 12b-1 fee. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:51:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. There is one called the T. Rowe Price/Brown Advisory fund that calls itself a large cap growth fund and it is up 20%+ YTD but was down 18% last year. So more growth this year but with a smaller starting point considering how much it was down last year. Not sure I am smart enough for this. I have looked through them all and it appears that they all ended up in a very similar place. Some lost a shit ton last year and made a shit ton this year, some lost a bit last year and gained a bit this year. The fees for that one say they are 1.14% Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Am I doing something wrong? I do better than that day trading Robinhood. The account is with Principal. I am in what is called the Lifetime Hybrid 2045 meaning that is my planned retire date. The S&P 500 has returned just about 7% over the last 2 years (August 2021 to August 2023). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture_JPG-2908080.JPG It's not abnormal for a target date fund to under perform the S&P 500 over any give period as they are inherently less aggressive with more in bonds and international equities which have under performed in recent memory. Your PARTICULAR target date fund is pretty expensive with an expense ratio of 0.41% and being comprised of other funds with expense ratios between 0.16% and 1.03%. I'm pretty sure these expense ratios stack on top of each other but I could be wrong. That's cost you at least a 1%-2% of performance over the last two years. Do you have the ability to switch to a Vanguard target date fund? Their funds are significantly less expensive both at the top level and at the individual funds within the fund level. If you can't do that and there's only one line of target date funds available, one option to consider would be to exit the target date fund you are in and rebuild your desired allocation within your 401k with a combination of more cost efficient funds...if they are offered. Interesting. There is one called the T. Rowe Price/Brown Advisory fund that calls itself a large cap growth fund and it is up 20%+ YTD but was down 18% last year. So more growth this year but with a smaller starting point considering how much it was down last year. Not sure I am smart enough for this. I have looked through them all and it appears that they all ended up in a very similar place. Some lost a shit ton last year and made a shit ton this year, some lost a bit last year and gained a bit this year. The fees for that one say they are 1.14% I'm sure you are smart enough for this. The question is whether you are patient or curious enough for it. If there's one thing to be interested in, it should be your own money. I don't have "the" answer, but one K.I.S.S. answer I could give you is: 1) Do some reading around to figure out what kind of allocation you want (how much stocks, how much bonds) for your age and risk tolerance. You can further break out into US vs. International if you want. 2) Find the lowest fee broad index funds you can find for each of those categories and buy them according to that allocation. 3) Revisit periodically and re-balance. Vanguard's target date funds are that simple. They are comprised of 4 different total market funds (US stocks, US bonds, Intl stocks, Intl bonds) and they move from equity heavy to bond heavy as you get closer to the target date. If you can find a very low fee target date fund like Vanguard's product, then I'm not going to say that'd be a stupid route to go either but at the very least you should know what's in it. It might help to read this page about the "Three Fund Portfolio" on Bogleheads: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:53:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I also have a targeted date fund of 2045 and I believe I'm up like 15% That's not normal OP, need to be on the phone asking questions Up 15% over what? OP specified 2 years. I doubt your target date fund is up 15% from August 2021 to August 2023. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:58:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are acceptable fees? I do have a current target date fund- my new job doesn't have many options. Looks like it has a .15 % gross and a .09% net fee ratio. That's better than the target date stuff I'm offered through T Rowe Price. All of the funds are at 0.36% I prefer an index fund like Vangaurd VIIIX. It's at 0.02% |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 1:59:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are acceptable fees? I do have a current target date fund- my new job doesn't have many options. Looks like it has a .15 % gross and a .09% net fee ratio. That's a pretty low fee for a target date fund but you should still take a peak to see what's inside the fund to see if what the fees are on the funds that your target date fund is comprised of. All target date funds that I've ever seen are "Funds of Funds" meaning that there's three layers to the investment: 1) The target date fund itself 2) The funds within the target date fund 3) The actual bonds and equities within the funds that are within the target date fund I believe the net fee you are being quoted is only at Layer #1 and there could be more fees at Layer #2. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:00:12 PM EDT
[#22]
No. It's not normal
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:02:24 PM EDT
[#23]
How much are getting soaked for fees, expenses, etc.?
Quoted: There is also the "JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund" which seems to have performed well over the last two years. Is this what is meant by an index fund? It is hard to tell the fees, but is appears to be about 1.2% JP Morgan US Equity R2 Fund Expenses as of 07/31/2023 Total Investment Expense - Gross:1.23% Total Investment Expense - Net:1.19% Waiver Date:10/31/2023 12b-1 Fee:0.50% Total Investment Expense Gross Per $1,000 Invested:$12.30 ETA that's a lot. But in a 401k you may not have any better options. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:05:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I also have a targeted date fund of 2045 and I believe I'm up like 15% That's not normal OP, need to be on the phone asking questions That's THIS year, isn't it? OP randomly decided to compare today's growth against his balance on 8/4/21 - 2 years ago. Why he picked 2 years, nobody knows, but the total market on that day was only a couple points within what it is today. So, it's not your fault, but all these calls for OP to "talk to his guy" about what he's got him investing in when comparing your returns for this year vs his returns for 2 years are incongruent, at least. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:06:24 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm up 17%
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm up 17% That doesn't mean anything without a time frame. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:07:40 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm up about 14% YTD so far.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:10:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Bidenomics!!
Get used to it as it is here to stay for the next 5 years! 
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:11:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Target date funds blow.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:11:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm up about 14% YTD so far. So is OP but he's not talking about YTD performance, he's talking about 2 year performance. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:13:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistorySee, That is the hard part. According to that, the expense ratio is .05%, so why do other sources show .4% or even 1%? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:18:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Down 2% is remarkably poor performance. I highly recommend not day trading. I blend my own between five different broadly held widely diversified ETFs and I'm up 10.30% over the past year and 9.14% over the last three years, 17.1% year-to-date. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Am I doing something wrong? I do better than that day trading Robinhood. The account is with Principal. I am in what is called the Lifetime Hybrid 2045 meaning that is my planned retire date. Down 2% is remarkably poor performance. I highly recommend not day trading. I blend my own between five different broadly held widely diversified ETFs and I'm up 10.30% over the past year and 9.14% over the last three years, 17.1% year-to-date. Same, have made around 12% on VTI and short-term T bills are currently about 5.42%. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:19:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much you are up in $ tells you nothing about how well your fund is performing. You can be up 5% in a year where the total market is up 20% and think you are doing well because 5% is a positive number. Just wait until the market has a bad year. You need to look at: 1) The fees your fund is charging you 2) What your fund is actually invested in 3) How it's performing relative to some benchmark that is meaningful to you. Only then can you really say if you should complain or not. Thank you. I’ll take a closer look. It’s Fidelity. Appreciate your advice. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:20:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Target date funds blow. I can't explicitly say this. 
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:27:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Target date funds are overly expensive and underly performing. Educate yourself a little, move out of the starter stage that target date funds are intended for, and do better…
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:30:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same, have made around 12% on VTI and short-term T bills are currently about 5.42%. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Am I doing something wrong? I do better than that day trading Robinhood. The account is with Principal. I am in what is called the Lifetime Hybrid 2045 meaning that is my planned retire date. Down 2% is remarkably poor performance. I highly recommend not day trading. I blend my own between five different broadly held widely diversified ETFs and I'm up 10.30% over the past year and 9.14% over the last three years, 17.1% year-to-date. Same, have made around 12% on VTI and short-term T bills are currently about 5.42%. No you haven't. VTI has returned right about 3.33% over the same time frame that OP lost 2%.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you haven't. VTI has returned right about 3.33% over the same time frame that OP lost 2%. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture_JPG-2908167.JPG It's his bonds yo. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:33:55 PM EDT
[#38]
It's always bonds.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:40:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They takin' OP to the cleaners. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture_JPG-2908086.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture2_JPG-2908087.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You do Day trading, but you don’t know what the Hybrid account holds? Check that, plus check the fees. They takin' OP to the cleaners. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture_JPG-2908086.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture2_JPG-2908087.JPG I thought the fund ER was a weighted avg of the individual investments. .410 is high for the fund, but not outrageously high for a lazy person that just wants to pick one investment. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:41:01 PM EDT
[#40]
On 8/6/2021 the SP500 was 46xx
Today, 2 years later its at 46xx |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:50:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Just met with my fiduciary Tuesday. I'm up 43% since the beginning of the year and up 67% in the last year. Best thing I did was leave my 401k company (nationwide) and swap to a fiduciary (Charles swab) a few years ago.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:51:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the fund ER was a weighted avg of the individual investments. .410 is high for the fund, but not outrageously high for a lazy person that just wants to pick one investment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You do Day trading, but you don’t know what the Hybrid account holds? Check that, plus check the fees. They takin' OP to the cleaners. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture_JPG-2908086.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/178958/Capture2_JPG-2908087.JPG I thought the fund ER was a weighted avg of the individual investments. .410 is high for the fund, but not outrageously high for a lazy person that just wants to pick one investment. I am understood that it compounds on top of the individual investments but I'd absolutely leave open to the possibility that I'm wrong. Every time I've looked for an answer on that it came up that those were fees on top of fees. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just met with my fiduciary Tuesday. I'm up 43% since the beginning of the year and up 67% in the last year. Best thing I did was leave my 401k company (nationwide) and swap to a fiduciary (Charles swab) a few years ago. What's he got you in that is outperforming the broad market by such a large margin? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:52:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Is spydey okay? He should have been here to tell us all how loosing money is when you make the most money by now.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:53:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's he got you in that is outperforming the broad market by such a large margin? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just met with my fiduciary Tuesday. I'm up 43% since the beginning of the year and up 67% in the last year. Best thing I did was leave my 401k company (nationwide) and swap to a fiduciary (Charles swab) a few years ago. What's he got you in that is outperforming the broad market by such a large margin? Deep deep into tech. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 2:53:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just met with my fiduciary Tuesday. I'm up 43% since the beginning of the year and up 67% in the last year. Best thing I did was leave my 401k company (nationwide) and swap to a fiduciary (Charles swab) a few years ago. What are you invested in? |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 3:00:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Well this is strange. I am on the phone with Principal and the number they are telling me I have contributed over the last three years is 10% less that what my pay stubs show I have contributed...How does that happen?
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Posted: 8/4/2023 3:01:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Target date funds are overly expensive and underly performing. Educate yourself a little, move out of the starter stage that target date funds are intended for, and do better… Working on it, but also searching for money my employer has taken out of my check but Principal says was not deposited. |
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Posted: 8/4/2023 3:06:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Im up 15% YTD and up 10ish over the last 2 years.
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Posted: 8/4/2023 3:09:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Am I doing something wrong? I do better than that day trading Robinhood. The account is with Principal. I am in what is called the Lifetime Hybrid 2045 meaning that is my planned retire date. The last company I worked for used Principal. Yes, they sucked and their fees are a crime. |
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