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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:16:50 PM EDT
[#1]
First!
Watching it now.. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:18:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Neat idea!
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:26:33 PM EDT
[#3]
110 gr at 2800 fps might make a dandy varmint round, if the accuracy's there.
Any groups out of a rifle bore yet? |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:28:06 PM EDT
[#4]
whoa thats some powerful rounds! 110gr at 2300fps is 1291 ft. lbs.
out of the ranchhand its 1914 ft. lbs. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:29:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
whoa thats some powerful rounds! 110gr at 2300fps is 1291 ft. lbs. out of the ranchhand its 1914 ft. lbs. This. Holy shit! |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:31:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Very interested in a range AAR. Shoot some shit, side by side target comparisons or penetration tests would be nice.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:32:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
110 gr at 2800 fps might make a dandy varmint round, if the accuracy's there. Any groups out of a rifle bore yet? off a rest with my trooper target im getting 2" at 50 yards. i havent had time to go out farther. im working this to use for 200 yard steel silhouette. if i shoot a pistol in a rifle competition i get a handicap. ETA: we got a foot of snow here so it will be a couple weeks before i get to the range with it for more testing. SW |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:34:42 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm curious: How do you manage to get more velocity out of this than you could get out of a 110-grain .357 bullet?
Obviously, you have less friction, but I'm surprised that this could account for a 2300 FPS max velocity when you couldn't get more than ~1800 out of a standard .357 110-grain bullet with stiff handloads. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:43:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I'm curious: How do you manage to get more velocity out of this than you could get out of a 110-grain .357 bullet? Obviously, you have less friction, but I'm surprised that this could account for a 2300 FPS max velocity when you couldn't get more than ~1800 out of a standard .357 110-grain bullet with stiff handloads. Magnets. Sorry, had to. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:49:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I'm curious: How do you manage to get more velocity out of this than you could get out of a 110-grain .357 bullet? Obviously, you have less friction, but I'm surprised that this could account for a 2300 FPS max velocity when you couldn't get more than ~1800 out of a standard .357 110-grain bullet with stiff handloads. sabots allow for a much more efficient energy transfer and allows more of a slower powder to be used, generating more velocity, especially so with a low BC spitzer rifle bullet. its a combination of factors, but sabot rounds in general for thier weight offer a 25-30% gain in velocity over the same weight projectile in full diameter. that advantage in energy and velocity is why the government spent a couple billion dollars experimenting with them in the CAWS, SPEW and SCIMITAR projects. i used some of thier experimentation methods in development of this load. while the government found they didnt offer enough advantage to replace existing military small arms (they had unrealistic expectations in the first place IMO) that doesnt mean we cant apply thier methodology. SW |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:50:36 PM EDT
[#11]
That is pretty cool.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:57:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Ho Lee Shit.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:59:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Wow. With a 1:10" rifled barrel and the correct sabot, you could zing a .22 caliber bullet at some fierce velocity.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:01:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Awesome.
I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:12:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Nice, and worth the effort
Too bad no range time |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:12:14 PM EDT
[#16]
So he is using these?
90 Grain Max Payload or are there other ones for the 110 grain? I'd like to make some of these. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:16:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I tried this several years ago, except loading 44 caliber bullets in S&W 500.
Speeds were blistering. Recoil was small. Accuracy sucked. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:16:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm curious: How do you manage to get more velocity out of this than you could get out of a 110-grain .357 bullet? Obviously, you have less friction, but I'm surprised that this could account for a 2300 FPS max velocity when you couldn't get more than ~1800 out of a standard .357 110-grain bullet with stiff handloads. Magnets. Sorry, had to. He's a wizard. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:18:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Awesome.
 I'm curious as to what they would do out of my Smith with an 8 3/8" barrel.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:19:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Neat!
I'm guessing all that flaring and crimping and max pressure makes for short case life. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:20:07 PM EDT
[#21]
100% pure win! |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:20:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Neat! I'm guessing all that flaring and crimping and max pressure makes for short case life. possibly, but 38spl brass is cheap. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:21:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Awesome. Great post.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#24]
With the capabilityof a sabot to use slower powders, I wonder what could be attained with my 24 inch .357.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:29:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
With the capabilityof a sabot to use slower powders, I wonder what could be attained with my 24 inch .357. i dont have a 357 rifle yet, but i would think 3200 would be in the realm of possibility. SW |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 3:56:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:05:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... 
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:12:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:14:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I tried this several years ago, except loading 44 caliber bullets in S&W 500. Speeds were blistering. Recoil was small. Accuracy sucked. http://home.mchsi.com/the_reaper/500sabots1.jpg http://home.mchsi.com/the_reaper/500sabots2.jpg I discovered the sabot had to be seated fully in teh case and the mouth crimped over the top of it to get good accuracy. SW |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:15:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Nice!
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:16:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! http://www.eabco.com/remington-accelerator-sabots.html Since the projectiles don't have to be sized - you could trim whatever metal you wanted to fit in the sabot within a lathe. Not sure if it's legal - and I'm not sure what the terminal effects or penetration would be. The accuracy wouldn't be anything to brag about. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:17:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! theres 30 cal sabots out there to load .224 projos in a 30 cal case. i havent ever gottten around to tinkering with them. IIRC SLAP rounds use specially designed projos, not regular bullets. SW |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:17:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Very nice.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! Those are .gov, not home made. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:18:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! Those are .gov, not home made. Why couldn't you make them at home with plastic sabots? |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:20:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! http://www.eabco.com/remington-accelerator-sabots.html Since the projectiles don't have to be sized - you could trim whatever metal you wanted to fit in the sabot within a lathe. Not sure if it's legal - and I'm not sure what the terminal effects or penetration would be. The accuracy wouldn't be anything to brag about. Absolutely a federal law violation to manufacture AP projectiles for use in ammo that can be used in a handgun. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:23:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome. I wonder if a similar round could be made with a tungsten projectile. My first thought. Or maybe just hardened steel. It's not hard to make SLAP 7.62 either. One day, the thought occurred to me how easy it would be... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/jefferyc22/Ammo/NewPicture478.jpg Please explain!! Those are .gov, not home made. Why couldn't you make them at home with plastic sabots? You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:24:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:28:01 PM EDT
[#39]
<----- skeptic
You are saying that you get more velocity from a 357 mag rifle with 110gr bullets, and 12.5 grains of powder, than you can get out of a 30-30 with the same bullet, and 38 grains of powder? At the same pressure? ETA: and the published velocity for 30-30 will be from a 20" or 24" bbl at 2700fps vs a 14" bbl and 2800fps? |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:36:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe Good point. However, most people don't have a lathe. And don't forget the aspect of committing a felony. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:50:31 PM EDT
[#41]
I'd think that bore friction is way less with the sabot, leading to the higher velocities.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 4:51:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe yeah... but what would you use as a cutter? I use carbide to cut steel. I suspect it wouldn't cut tungsten-carbide all that well. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:01:26 PM EDT
[#43]
What about a 62gr .224 caliber projectile? Have you tried that and what do you think you could get velocity wise?
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:02:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe yeah... but what would you use as a cutter? I use carbide to cut steel. I suspect it wouldn't cut tungsten-carbide all that well. I'm not a machinist but I will be learning how to soon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa6f2huW_6A |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:08:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe And what pray tell are you going to cut it with? You might be able to cut with a wire EDM depending on the matrix makeup, beyond that your going to need a very tough grinding wheel. Not going to get into the legal stuff too much, but your going to have to use another material in that projectile. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:08:51 PM EDT
[#46]
I'll be interested to see an accurate cartridge.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:08:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe Good point. However, most people don't have a lathe. And don't forget the aspect of committing a felony. Unless you were looking to penetrate armored vehicles (which I suppose could be use full) I wouldnt think one would have to use a tungsten projectile. If you drove a 62gr steel core SS109 projectile to 4000+fps in a 7.62 gun I bet it would zip through even level 4 armor. Not sure about ESAPI or especially XSAPI plates though. |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe Good point. However, most people don't have a lathe. And don't forget the aspect of committing a felony. Unless you were looking to penetrate armored vehicles (which I suppose could be use full) I wouldnt think one would have to use a tungsten projectile. If you drove a 62gr steel core SS109 projectile to 4000+fps in a 7.62 gun I bet it would zip through even level 4 armor. Not sure about ESAPI or especially XSAPI plates though. Nice carbon steel projo would do just fine I'd think. This sabot idea is intriguing ! |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 6:03:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You can still buy Remington Accelerator type sabots. But the projectiles in the pic referenced are tungsten carbide. Not something the average guy can easily procure. http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbide-Diameter-Precision-Tolerance/dp/B007001TTO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_4 + Lathe Good point. However, most people don't have a lathe. And don't forget the aspect of committing a felony. only "pistol" AP is illegal |
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Posted: 2/10/2013 6:14:33 PM EDT
[#50]
i read about some expieriments china lake did back in teh 70s with 50 cal sabots shooting 30 cal bullets wherein they eclipsed the 5000 FPS mark with solid copper bullets.
SW |
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