308 or 300 win mag?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 308 or 300 win mag? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:35:55 PM EDT

If I was to get one of these in a bolt gun, which caliber. Want to shoot up to 1000 meters.

308 pros: Cheaper ammo, great ammo availability, barrel life 3500 rounds or more, won't beat the crap out of my shoulder

308 cons: Wind will affect the shot more, bullet energy at target is a lot less. Most sources say 308 is a 550 to 750 meter gun

300 win mag pros: Can be shot to 1200 meters effectively, flatter shooter, more energy at target, wind won't affect shot nearly as bad

300 win mag cons: Have to purchase more reloading supplies, ammo will cost a lot more per round, barrel will need to be replaced at 1000 to 1500 rounds (big con for me), "may" or "will" beat the crap out of my shoulder (haven't shot one yet)

Now, I have shot an 8 mm mauser and it didn't beat my shoulder too bad. Wasn't like I would only care to fire 5 rounds and put it down.

But I am thinking of a Remington 700 PSS in 308 or 300 win mag. I want to know your experiences with each of these firing through the course up to 1000 meters. Also, my biggest concern is the 300 win mags barrel life. Does the 300 win mag really shoot that much better at longer distance than 308? Enough to put up with the barrel wear?

I need help. Please!

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:42:11 PM EDT

[#1]

300, a .308 tops out around 800m.

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:43:25 PM EDT

[#2]

Get an AR30 in 300 WM

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:43:52 PM EDT

[#3]

.300 remington ultra mag

go BIG!

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:46:13 PM EDT

[#4]

I've been thinking about getting a 700 ADL. You saying I'm going to have to replace the barrel after 3000 rounds or is that just for accuracy?

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:46:59 PM EDT

[#5]

what's wrong with .338 lupa?

J

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:47:49 PM EDT

[#6]

Nothing.

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:50:55 PM EDT

[#7]

I have a "long range tactical rifle" in .308, but I'd like to do my next build in 300WSM. Supposedly that round has excellent inherent accuracy.

Semper Fi

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:55:33 PM EDT

[#8]

I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:57:36 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

they were talking meters not yards.

Posted: 1/11/2005 2:58:37 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

Thanks for the info. Now I'll leave and take my little hijacking with me.

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:00:08 PM EDT

[#11]

If you are used to recoil ( ie, .308s and up ), the .300 WinMag will be a bit easier to handle. Just get a recoil pad to attach to the stock, and allow for generous eye relief.

The .300 will be better for long range. The less rounds needed to get on target and overcome the wind, the less rounds you will need overall.

Better yet, go for something right in between those two cartridges. I would say a 7mm Remington magnum would work for you since it sounds like you are reloading.

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:00:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

they were talking meters not yards.

Whats your point?

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:04:11 PM EDT

[#13]

.308 is good out to 1000m in the 175 gr. loads.

.308 ammo can be reloaded very cheaply--~$3.00 per box of 20.

.308 shoots softly and barrel life will be much greater than the magnums. Some even get over 10K out a .308 barrel.

Unless you need to take heavy game, stick to .308 for long range paper punching.

If you really want to foil the wind, then look to something like the .300 RUM, or the .338 magnums.

I'd even go with the .300 WSM over the .300 win mag--shorter actionwith likely better inherent accuracy.

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:04:24 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
If you are used to recoil ( ie, .308s and up ), the .300 WinMag will be a bit easier to handle. Just get a recoil pad to attach to the stock, and allow for generous eye relief.

The .300 will be better for long range. The less rounds needed to get on target and overcome the wind, the less rounds you will need overall.

Better yet, go for something right in between those two cartridges. I would say a 7mm Remington magnum would work for you since it sounds like you are reloading.

Choices, choices!

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:05:19 PM EDT

[#15]

300WSM.... 300 WM ballistics in a short action!

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:07:22 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

they were talking meters not yards.

Whats your point?

1000 meters = 1,093.61 yards

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:30:08 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I've been thinking about getting a 700 ADL. You saying I'm going to have to replace the barrel after 3000 rounds or is that just for accuracy?

Yes. I too have heard that you can get 10,000 rounds out of a 308 barrel. But from my limited bolt gun experience, the groups start to open up around 3,500 rounds or so. Now, if you don't care about going from 1/2 MOA to 1 1/4 MOA with a few flyers, you can get around 10,000 rounds out of a barrel. But I want an accurate gun that I can use and use well.

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:36:06 PM EDT

[#18]

Get the .308 I've got one a remington VS and let me tell you its a pleasure to shoot.

The .300 is not a pleasure to shoot its not bad but not nearly like a .308. And ALOT of people cannot get over the flinch of a 300.

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:39:24 PM EDT

[#19]

OMG

Posted: 1/11/2005 3:47:58 PM EDT

[#20]

I voted .300WM - there's no doubt it's better than the .308 further out, better for larger game, too - and it's readily available... The 7mmMag is nice, but I'm kinda partial to .30s - and besides, I figure on having some sort of .308 MBR - so it can share some bullets for reloading purposes...

- georgestrings

Posted: 1/11/2005 4:00:00 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Get an AR30 in 300 WM

Yep.

5sub

Posted: 1/11/2005 4:05:32 PM EDT

[#22]

I've thought about this same issue, and think that the 30-06 is a great compromise. A 190 Matchking at 2,800 will hit hard at 1K, and a 168 MK at 2,700 shoots like a 308. 4k barrel life to boot.

And you get 5 in the magazine.

Posted: 1/11/2005 4:18:57 PM EDT

[#23]

I've got a 700PSS in 300WM, the recoil isn't too bad, its a heavy rifle and I have one of the slip on recoil pads and a padded cheek rest in addition to the factory recoil pad.
I can shoot 30-40 rounds before I start getting beat up. The barrel life is an issue, mine is starting to get 'throated' at about 600 rounds.
I roll my own ammo, shooting factory ammo can get expensive quick. My gun will shoot 1/2 MOA if I do my part.
It's hard to beat a 190gr matchking leaving the tube at 2900fps.....

Posted: 1/11/2005 5:07:43 PM EDT

[#24]

If you load your own ammo, you can load down the 300 Win to 308 levels, if you are concerned about the barrel life.

Posted: 1/11/2005 8:06:03 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

Beyond 800m you start to get a LOT of drop with .308 and more importantly many factors make that drop less than consistent between 800 and 1000m. Now I have seen some guys who have an inate Jedi wizardry with their weapon and can dope a .308 out at 1000m for some pretty impressive groups but that is far from the norm.

In general terms a .308 is consistent up to 800m and beyond that you probably want a 300 wm.

Posted: 1/11/2005 8:10:38 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

Beyond 800m you start to get a LOT of drop with .308 and more importantly many factors make that drop less than consistent between 800 and 1000m. Now I have seen some guys who have an inate Jedi wizardry with their weapon and can dope a .308 out at 1000m for some pretty impressive groups but that is far from the norm.

In general terms a .308 is consistent up to 800m and beyond that you probably want a 300 wm.

So what you are saying is..."I should get the .308 for up to 800m and get a Barrett .50 caliber from you with the group buy for anything over that." Does that sum it up?

Posted: 1/11/2005 8:29:24 PM EDT

[#27]

Well, I'm not intending this to be to be critical but,...why bother with either of those calibers?

If you want to punch holes in paper at 1000+ yards or 1,000 m consider a 260 Rem or a 6.5-284. The 6.5 mm, 142 gr Sierra Match King bullets have the highest BC of any mass-produced bullet out there. There are a fwe "custom" (limited production) bullets that have a higher BC but they are few.

The 6.5-284 will give you the same barrel life as the 300WM and the 300WSM, about 1,500 rounds but the ballistics will be far superior.

The recoil and its toll on the shooter will be far less than a 300 WM, too.

Loading data and components are readily available as this is THE caliber for long range shooting world-wide. The 308 is still used for 1,000 yard shooting but only in the Palma matches where it is the caliber required by the rules.

If you need serious energy or momentum at the end of the trajectory (hunting living creatures) then get a seriously monster caliber (338 Lapua, 300 WM, 50 BMG,...). If not, get a 6.5-284.

Posted: 1/11/2005 8:40:17 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

Beyond 800m you start to get a LOT of drop with .308 and more importantly many factors make that drop less than consistent between 800 and 1000m. Now I have seen some guys who have an inate Jedi wizardry with their weapon and can dope a .308 out at 1000m for some pretty impressive groups but that is far from the norm.

In general terms a .308 is consistent up to 800m and beyond that you probably want a 300 wm.

So what you are saying is..."I should get the .308 for up to 800m and get a Barrett .50 caliber from you with the group buy for anything over that." Does that sum it up?

.308 for up to 800m, 300 WM for 1000m+ and a .50 BMG for anything you want to see with large holes in it and possibly on fire.

That is how I address the above situations.

Posted: 1/11/2005 9:27:13 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
.300 remington ultra mag

go BIG!

+1 smokes them both.

Posted: 1/11/2005 9:52:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
300, a .308 tops out around 800m.

Most people cant see pass 300yds in a urban city.

Posted: 1/11/2005 9:54:53 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
300, a .308 tops out around 800m.

Most people cant see pass 300yds in a urban city.

He did ask about 1000m. I'm assuming he won't be shooting down the block.

Posted: 1/11/2005 10:08:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
300, a .308 tops out around 800m.

Most people cant see pass 300yds in a urban city.

He did ask about 1000m. I'm assuming he won't be shooting down the block.

@#$%! I was thinking Zombies

Posted: 1/11/2005 11:07:06 PM EDT

[#33]

If you are serious about long range shooting, take a look at the 6.5mm's and the 7mm's.

The .30 caliber 190gr SMK "only" has a BC of about 0.533.

The 140gr 6.5's have a BC of 0.627, and the 168gr 7mm has a BC of 0.648.

From 26" barrels, these three loads (in 6.5-284, 7RemMag, and 300WM) have almost the same muzzle velocity.

The 6.5 and 7mm will have much less wind drift beyond 800 yards, and will be a little flatter than 300.

demigod.org/~zak/tmp/ballistics.html

Posted: 1/12/2005 6:45:32 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
If you are serious about long range shooting, take a look at the 6.5mm's and the 7mm's.

The .30 caliber 190gr SMK "only" has a BC of about 0.533.

The 140gr 6.5's have a BC of 0.627, and the 168gr 7mm has a BC of 0.648.

From 26" barrels, these three loads (in 6.5-284, 7RemMag, and 300WM) have almost the same muzzle velocity.

The 6.5 and 7mm will have much less wind drift beyond 800 yards, and will be a little flatter than 300.

demigod.org/~zak/tmp/ballistics.html

So what's the barrel life of the 7mm?

Posted: 1/12/2005 6:52:17 AM EDT

[#35]

The .300 in ultramag with a muzzle brake is not too bad at all.

If you need to reload anyway, and buy dies, you may as well go two steps up.

Quoted:
.300 remington ultra mag

go BIG!

Posted: 1/12/2005 6:54:46 AM EDT

[#36]

I'd suggest a .308, but only because I have one for sale.

Ok, seriously, I'd still suggest a .308.

Posted: 1/12/2005 6:58:22 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I'd suggest a .308, but only because I have one for sale.

Ok, seriously, I'd still suggest a .308.

What is it?

Posted: 1/12/2005 7:04:07 AM EDT

[#38]

I can't believe nobody has said this yet:

Get Both!

Posted: 1/12/2005 8:19:55 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
So what's the barrel life of the 7mm?

My friends are getting at least 2000 rounds with acceptible accuracy, some more.
You save some barrel life by not pushing to the total maximum load (say down 50fps), but you still get the benefit of the high BC.
$500 to rebarrel is less than half the cost of 2000 match-quality reloads, less than a quarter if you buy factory loads.

Posted: 1/12/2005 8:22:31 AM EDT

[#40]

I'd do this:

If you have a semi auto 308 battle rifle, get a 300winmag bolt action

If you don't have semi auto 308, get a 300winmag bolt action, then get a semi auto 308 battle rifle

If you can't do both, get a bolt action 308

This all assumes you have an AR15. If you don't, you should be summarily stoned

for skipping steps 1-8 in the Holy Arfcom Book of Firearm Acquisitions.

Posted: 1/12/2005 8:25:09 AM EDT

[#41]

Get the .300WM, since you reload you can get some handloads that are not full house mag velocities.

Posted: 1/12/2005 8:45:55 AM EDT

[#42]

I gave this some more thought.

If you want the best of both cartridges.....

get a 270 bolt action. World's best cartridge for medium to large game 0-400 yards.

Posted: 1/12/2005 8:47:08 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I've thought about this same issue, and think that the 30-06 is a great compromise. A 190 Matchking at 2,800 will hit hard at 1K, and a 168 MK at 2,700 shoots like a 308. 4k barrel life to boot.

And you get 5 in the magazine.

The 30- oh what?

Boy, talk about a round that has fallen out of grace! I've practically forgotten about this once #1 chambering. Do they still make rifles for it? If so, does anybody buy it?

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:00:40 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you limit the 308 a little to much.

Unless you are doing rapid fire then 3500 rounds is a little low.

And 800 yards is also a little low. At 1000+ yards if it is windy you are gonna be screwed with either one.

they were talking meters not yards.

Whats your point?

1000 meters = 1,093.61 yards

800m != 1000 yards

.308 Win is fine out to 1000 yards or 914.403 meters if you use the right load.

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:05:39 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I've thought about this same issue, and think that the 30-06 is a great compromise. A 190 Matchking at 2,800 will hit hard at 1K, and a 168 MK at 2,700 shoots like a 308. 4k barrel life to boot.

And you get 5 in the magazine.

The 30- oh what?

Boy, talk about a round that has fallen out of grace! I've practically forgotten about this once #1 chambering. Do they still make rifles for it? If so, does anybody buy it?

YES!

30.06 hasn't fallen anywhere. It is still very popular, very capable, and very common. It has more ballistic capability than the 308.

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:12:10 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
If you are serious about long range shooting, take a look at the 6.5mm's and the 7mm's.

The .30 caliber 190gr SMK "only" has a BC of about 0.533.

The 140gr 6.5's have a BC of 0.627, and the 168gr 7mm has a BC of 0.648.

From 26" barrels, these three loads (in 6.5-284, 7RemMag, and 300WM) have almost the same muzzle velocity.

The 6.5 and 7mm will have much less wind drift beyond 800 yards, and will be a little flatter than 300.

demigod.org/~zak/tmp/ballistics.html

+1 for the 6.5s. They are popular these days for long range target shooting for good reason. They have good BCs, and they don't beat you up as much as comparable .30s. They do eat up barrels pretty quickly, but IMO that's a good trade off.

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:15:27 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
If I was to get one of these in a bolt gun, which caliber. Want to shoot up to 1000 meters.

308 pros: Cheaper ammo, great ammo availability, barrel life 3500 rounds or more, won't beat the crap out of my shoulder

308 cons: Wind will affect the shot more, bullet energy at target is a lot less. Most sources say 308 is a 550 to 750 meter gun

300 win mag pros: Can be shot to 1200 meters effectively, flatter shooter, more energy at target, wind won't affect shot nearly as bad

300 win mag cons: Have to purchase more reloading supplies, ammo will cost a lot more per round, barrel will need to be replaced at 1000 to 1500 rounds (big con for me), "may" or "will" beat the crap out of my shoulder (haven't shot one yet)

Now, I have shot an 8 mm mauser and it didn't beat my shoulder too bad. Wasn't like I would only care to fire 5 rounds and put it down.

But I am thinking of a Remington 700 PSS in 308 or 300 win mag. I want to know your experiences with each of these firing through the course up to 1000 meters. Also, my biggest concern is the 300 win mags barrel life. Does the 300 win mag really shoot that much better at longer distance than 308? Enough to put up with the barrel wear?

I need help. Please!

Damn, lots of replies (me included) but we've yet to understand exactly what you are doing. Do you just want to punch holes in paper at 1000m? If so, go with the high BC stuff as suggested--the 6.5mm e.g.

If you want better terminal performce at longer ranges, then the .300 RUM or the .338s are you best bet short of using a .50 bmg.

If you just want to play sniper and learn how to dope wind, and shoot a LOT at longer ranges up to 1000m with low cost (by comparison) and long barrel life, then .308 is the answer.

Make your equipment suit the application not the other way around.

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:19:30 AM EDT

[#48]

No question:

.300 Winchester Magnum

No contest.

HH

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:28:48 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
If you just want to play sniper and learn how to dope wind, and shoot a LOT at longer ranges up to 1000m with low cost (by comparison) and long barrel life, then .308 is the answer.

Make your equipment suit the application not the other way around.

Palma shooters do quite well with the .308 at 800, 900, and 1,000 yards. Sure, it's yards not meters, and the "tactical quotient" is low, but the shooting skill level is way high.

Another option is a .223: an AR-15 set up for match shooting. Attend NRA Highpower, 3 x 600 matches, Palma, and other long range matches.

Posted: 1/12/2005 9:32:31 AM EDT

[#50]

Get a .50 before they are banned.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 308 or 300 win mag? (Page 1 of 2)

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