[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 6 of 10)
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Quoted: This, and the retarded dress up crap. Denim jeans, cotton shirt and a leather jacket? Naw, that ain't right, cowpoke. You cain't shoot like that! They never had anything like that! They also get real miffed if you've got a double action revolver. They were very popular even before the 1892 became the Army's standard sidearm. "I ain't never heard of no 1877! Yer fulla sheeeiiit!" |
| Reading many of these posts I detect a lot of people with no knowledge or love of American History.I know a couple guys who are in to cowboy shooting. True, it's an expensive hobby to get into, especially if you don't have any interest in western history. It's kind of like guys who will only go out for muzzle loading hunting if they can use modern breech loading black powder. As for cowboy shooting, (or reenacting) do it for the historical aspect Kids don't get into this sort of thing because they are simply ignorant of history, with no past and from the looks of things, no future. Sad really, but it's more about learning the sorts of things our ancestors did rather than tricking out a black rifle with every expensive trinket possible and seeing how many rounds you can dump down range. Once again, I cite the axiom that fits GD so well; "If you arn't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." |
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People who grew up in the age of westerns are dying off. The 70's had western series plus tons of western movies. If you were 20 the, well you are heading past 70 now.
yes it is expensive. But I have all the guns plus a few more extras. Went to one event. Good enough people, but gaming does not do it for me. They had a bonus shot a one stage-2'x3' gong at 100 yards. I was the only one in my group that had ammo that did not bounce off the ground before reaching it. Sad thing is at home I regularly shot coffee cans with my pistol at that range. Coke cans with the rifle were more chalanging though. |
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Maybe some localities have seen growth, but nationally, the sport of speed-shooting Steel targets with old-west style "cowboy" guns seems on the decline. I've never tried a match, but I am curious to hear from the insiders as to why the sport seems to be dying out? Is it growing in places like California, where the single-action six-shooters and lever guns have not been as heavily targeted by gun-grabbers? |
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If someone wants to dabble in competitive handgun shooting, USPSA/IDPA have more mass appeal, and the barrier to entry is much lower.
Sure, to be real competitive you’ll want to spend some money but you can get started with just about any handgun that you already own. Dress code is simpler, and events are easier to find. |
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All the above and then some. 1. You have to dress up and have a nickname. It’s hard enough getting people that want to do shooting sports. Now you’re throwing something else in the mix and to be honest the likelihood of running into a roll playing weirdo just skyrocketed. 2. The equipment: slower, costly, harder to master, not nearly as fun to shoot, safety concerns. I’ve ran into a ton of competitors that aren’t gun people and it’s taken them a lot of time and work to get accurately fast. Thrown in low capacity, single action, outdated weapons and the fact that most other competitors skills from other disciplines don’t carry over well. Competitors from other disciplines and new guys have had safety/fundamentals beaten in their heads. They aren’t going to enjoy seeing triggers being held down while actions are worked on revolvers or working the action of a lever gun and slapping the trigger in what could be an un safe manner. Now I think shooting cowboy guns is a blast and with the work and effort you can be good at it. It can also be practical for some of those snowy northern states where hunting and trapping is life. 3. 38spl, 357mag, 45lc, isn’t the cheapest compared to 9mm and 556 4. Cowboy action in a lot of cases is a multi-gun match. Where ipsc, Uspsa, steel challenge can be done year around with one gun. |
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If I could just buy the guns and some leather and go shoot in normal clothes I probably would, the whole dress up thing and having to buy all that crap kills any interest in it. I love the guns, loved the leather...but the fetishistic cowboy culture crap, I couldn't take. |
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And what cowboy only loads two rounds in his Winchester model 1897?
You should run factory equivalent loads of the day, not something hotter than just the primer. Fucking gun game bullshit! Contrary to popular belief, the original black powder loadings of 44-40, 38-40, 45 colt, 45 s&w, and 45-70 were hot!... some were later downloaded from their original loadings... for an example, original loading of the 45-70-500 was a 500gr .45 caliber bullet with 70 grains of powder behind it. The loadings for the trapdoor carbine was changed to 45-70-405. Reducing the bullet weight and also lowering the powder charge. The .45-70-500 could go through both horse and Indian at a range of over a mile. They have neutered 19th century assault weapons and turned them into cap guns. |
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I hate cowboy hats. I have a big head. Stetsons look wrong on me. Quoted:
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Fify, since you're Asian. So am I, btw. I do look kinda funny in a cowboy hat. And I don't know how much dignity I have left. |
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Reading many of these posts I detect a lot of people with no knowledge or love of American History.I know a couple guys who are in to cowboy shooting. True, it's an expensive hobby to get into, especially if you don't have any interest in western history. It's kind of like guys who will only go out for muzzle loading hunting if they can use modern breech loading black powder. As for cowboy shooting, (or reenacting) do it for the historical aspect Kids don't get into this sort of thing because they are simply ignorant of history, with no past and from the looks of things, no future. Sad really, but it's more about learning the sorts of things our ancestors did rather than tricking out a black rifle with every expensive trinket possible and seeing how many rounds you can dump down range. Once again, I cite the axiom that fits GD so well; "If you arn't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." |
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I'm surprised Renaissance fairs are still a thing. Figured those would have died out long ago. I guess there are still enough over weight nerds willing to dress up like Robin Hood and Maid Marian to keep those events going... |
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Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. I'd love to learn to fly - I've been to a couple EAA meetings and helped dad build a couple planes. How much $ do you suppose it is to get a pilots license? Along with the time commitment? I think flying is a retired (or single) man's game for the most part. Maybe when the kids get out of daycare I'll get a license. |
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It's old-guy gun Cosplay. Which is fine (IDGAF), but it answers your question. The younger guys have embraced modern-day gun Cosplay in the form of Carbine "classes". 
Hate on me all you want bitches, but you know I'm right.  |
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I'd love to learn to fly - I've been to a couple EAA meetings and helped dad build a couple planes. How much $ do you suppose it is to get a pilots license? Along with the time commitment? I think flying is a retired (or single) man's game for the most part. Maybe when the kids get out of daycare I'll get a license. Quoted:
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Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. How much $ do you suppose it is to get a pilots license? Along with the time commitment? I think flying is a retired (or single) man's game for the most part. Maybe when the kids get out of daycare I'll get a license. |
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Reading many of these posts I detect a lot of people with no knowledge or love of American History.I know a couple guys who are in to cowboy shooting. True, it's an expensive hobby to get into, especially if you don't have any interest in western history. It's kind of like guys who will only go out for muzzle loading hunting if they can use modern breech loading black powder. As for cowboy shooting, (or reenacting) do it for the historical aspect Kids don't get into this sort of thing because they are simply ignorant of history, with no past and from the looks of things, no future. Sad really, but it's more about learning the sorts of things our ancestors did rather than tricking out a black rifle with every expensive trinket possible and seeing how many rounds you can dump down range. Once again, I cite the axiom that fits GD so well; "If you arn't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." |
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Brother: Alcohol and tits. If you've never been, you don't know what you're missing. Quoted:
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I'm surprised Renaissance fairs are still a thing. Figured those would have died out long ago. I guess there are still enough over weight nerds willing to dress up like Robin Hood and Maid Marian to keep those events going... Also, the Renaissance fair around here has turned into a sort of cos-play catch-all, that now includes: - Harry Potter wear - Lord of the Rings costumes - Vikings outfits (even though they were much earlier) - Steampunk wear Heck, I even saw fully costumed Tinkerbell and Peter Pan at the last one. Maybe that's part of the draw?: they are looser with the "rules" ?? |
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All of the 3 gun stuff is heading the same way. High cost of gear. High cost of entry and turning the gun game into an arms race will be the end of all of it. I am willing to bet attendance is down in other 3 gun sports. |
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Do you think the younger generation would be welcomed with open arms if they showed up? Quoted:
Quoted: I am guessing this. This younger generation would rather play it on a video game than go through the labor of love required to actually do it. |
| The reason I quit was the expense. Not that I was ever "competitive", but it sure was authentic. I used a 1901 and 1904 Colt Bisley in .38-40, and a Winchester in the same caliber, as well as a 1897 scattergun. (none of them collector grade, so relax). By the time I got my guns together, and started to consider the "duds", my interest began to wane. Luckily, someone saved my wallet by buying everything I'd put together. |
I'm young, but I love westerns watched lots of old ones as a kid, but still only having a passing interest in something like CAS, between the bar of entry and the fact I rather do something else firearm related....well that and I am also asian too lol . Now sign me up for the 1980s action shoot though so I get my bush warrior on.
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in! |
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Reading many of these posts I detect a lot of people with no knowledge or love of American History.I know a couple guys who are in to cowboy shooting. True, it's an expensive hobby to get into, especially if you don't have any interest in western history. It's kind of like guys who will only go out for muzzle loading hunting if they can use modern breech loading black powder. As for cowboy shooting, (or reenacting) do it for the historical aspect Kids don't get into this sort of thing because they are simply ignorant of history, with no past and from the looks of things, no future. Sad really, but it's more about learning the sorts of things our ancestors did rather than tricking out a black rifle with every expensive trinket possible and seeing how many rounds you can dump down range. Once again, I cite the axiom that fits GD so well; "If you arn't part of the solution, you're part of the problem." |
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I just never cared about cowboys. It was already a very dated, uncool genre when I was a kid (Unforgiven notwhistanding). So I was never interested in CASS.
Now if there was Gangster / Prohibition / Motorized Bandit Action Shooting Association, devoted to firing Thompsons while riding on the running boards of cars, or quick drawing sawd offs out of violin cases, I'd be all over that 
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| I'm headed in the wrong direction. I played to much RDR2 and went and bought an Uberti Cattleman. It's actually really fun to shoot, especially at steel. I'd like to get a nice holster next, but I'm shopping used. I absolutely will not be buying any other clothing items. That's laughable. |
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I like the guns, I like westerns, I like history, I like the adventurous spirit of period Americans, hell I even like the fashion. I quit because I got bored. It really ain't cowboy action shooting, you can't even move with iron in hand. If it were more like USPSA I'd probably still be shooting my guns dressed like one of the Earps.
Say whatever you want about SASS, I will say that I've never shot with a nicer, more encouraging group. Quick to loan guns and gear and share whatever they had. It's full of fine folks that I feel I benefited from just by knowing them. 
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@placedesjardins
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I hate cowboy hats. I have a big head. Stetsons look wrong on me. Quoted:
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Fify, since you're Asian. So am I, btw. I do look kinda funny in a cowboy hat. And I don't know how much dignity I have left. BUT: Hypothetically, if you wanted to do it, you could put together a bad-ass getup and never have to wear a Stetson. Fat Asian faces--sorry, big heads--look good in bowlers, and bowlers are period correct. 
Don't have to be a cowboy, just had to be in cowboy times. You can go as Professor Chow, proprietor of an old West travelling show featuring Mysteries of the Orient, with an appropriately-themed cart, like Tony Randall in "7 Faces of Dr. Lao" 
Having said all that, Asians look great in Stetsons! Lots of Asian cowboys in modern movies today. Go as Axe Gang. Go as Pork Chow Pain. Dim Sum Gun. Yellow Pearl (yellow pearl grips on your guns nail this one). I get that you don't want to do it, but being Asian wouldn't exclude you where I'm at--you'd be bringing in much needed and interesting flavors in a sea of old White folks. 
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Actually, I just pulled up the most recent SASS rules. They do have a minimum PF now. It's a whole 60.
(PF = bullet in grains x muzzle vel. in fps / 1000. For comparison, Minor PF in USPSA is 125 and Major PF is 165.) Maximum velocity on revos is 1000 fps, so that's not bad. The bad part is this: That rules out literally all of ammo I have. I have zero interest in loading lead, and certainly not just to shoot CAS. As for lead, when I shot USPSA Single Stack regularly, I'd load 230gr LRN from Missouri Bullet. Worked fine and was substantially cheaper than other bullets. |
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I've got the guns and love shooting them, but I'm not going for the costume.  That and any of these games get gamed a bit too much. For the cowboy gun game it’s low power ammo to “ cheat” the advantage. For other gun games it’s technical “ holsters and guns” that no one would street carry in real life. I kind of prefer the idea of IROC rules. Everybody is more or less using the same gear, like the garand match, as issued guns and you get issued ammo on the line. Less of an arms race with winners having deeper pockets. |
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Vaqueros are a modern design. You run a old Colt too fast/hard and parts will break. Vaqueros use modern coil springs. They're far easier to tune, polish, customize. I've seen vaqueros with free spin pawls that had such polished cylinders that the rounds would just fall out with no need to use the ejector. Spring packages make cocking and trigger release a breeze and it takes no effort to install. To get a SAA to function like that it will take a gunsmith who knows what they're doing. The 1873 Winchester is also horiffically gamed. Different lifters/levers and presto! the lever only needs to move 2 inches to cycle. Now, couple these gamer guns with gamer ammo that are akin to gallery loads at best and you get competitive SASS. The rounds I shoot are by no means magnum loads, but there is a world of difference in the sound of a "tink" of a gamer 32 vs the "thud/clang" of a 250g 45LC. Gamers also don't like real BP shooters. I really like them. CAS is one of the few times I regularly see BP pistols being shot. Quoted:
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It is a fully modern design that, IMO, totally defeats the purpose of what the sport was/is supposed to be. It only looks like a Colt Single Action Army. Mechanically they are totally different. They use them because they are easier to tune and are perceived to be safer due to having a transfer bar (though they only load 5 anyway). Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. The 1873 Winchester is also horiffically gamed. Different lifters/levers and presto! the lever only needs to move 2 inches to cycle. Now, couple these gamer guns with gamer ammo that are akin to gallery loads at best and you get competitive SASS. The rounds I shoot are by no means magnum loads, but there is a world of difference in the sound of a "tink" of a gamer 32 vs the "thud/clang" of a 250g 45LC. Gamers also don't like real BP shooters. I really like them. CAS is one of the few times I regularly see BP pistols being shot. I stopped shooting when they banned the Spencer shotguns, Marlins, and '93 Winchesters. I figured my '87 might wind up on the chopping block next. Add to that the clowns that couldn't compete in the smokeless categories came into black powder and made BP gamer loads with cream of wheat mixed in to make mousefart loads and light bullets going so slow you could see the damn things going down range and I had enough. It just wasn't fun anymore. I did tend to gather a crowd when I used my shotgun though. 110gr of black powder and 1 7/8 ounces of 7 1/2 shot makes for a hell of a show. You could feel it go off in the floorboards of the stage 3 stages down from where I was shooting. It had a 24" barrel so the smoke and flame out the end of the barrel was a sight to see. And occasionally I would scorch some of the stage props with the muzzle blast. Attached File Attached File Attached File I still have the Winchester, the rest of the guns are long gone. I even shot trap with the Winchester once. Got 12 out of 25 lol |
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True. My club was involved in CAS until about 12 years ago, when it died for lack of interest. In my 40s at the time, I was one of the younger shooters. The guys who were the most active are now dead or barely able to get around. Cost was a big factor, too. To be one of the cool kids, needed two SA revolvers, expensive belt with holsters, lever-action, pistol-caliber rifle and a shotgun, double-barrel or Model 1897 Winchester. Unless you reloaded, cost of ammo, particularly .44 or .45, was an issue. Younger guys, not raised watching Gunsmoke or Have Gun, Will Travel, didn't have the connection to westerns and cowboys. The guns are hella expensive. You have to have the slick SA revolvers, and a tuned pistol cal lever gun (e.g. one that will actually run) is more $$ than an entry 3 gun shotgun. $1200 at least for pistols, $800-900 for the lever gun, and a $500 coach gun you are into it thousands and don’t forget the leather, clothes, and reloading stuff. I’m a millennial and I did grow up with a lot of westerns and I like that genre and love the guns. But the Glock 17 I shoot in 3 gun goes into my holster every day. |
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Cost is the reason. For someone just coming into the game: 2 pistols ~$1,500 Rifle ~1,200 Shotgun ~900 clothing ~300 ammo for a weekend ~$200 or reloading from the ground up ~$1,500) So, for the FNGs first weekend he is looking at ~$4,000. ETA: forgot gun leather. It would be easy to drop ~$1,500 on fancy belt and wo holsters. Many of the old farts in the game (me) started when only one pistol was needed, then we added the rifle, already had a SxS shotgun a few years later added the second pistol. Back then the clothing rule (singular) was, "If the Duke would have worn it, you are GTG"! |
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And you’re worried about being an Asian cowboy because you’d look strange? Quoted:
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in! And to the op’s point, only so many people will play make believe. |
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Hey look, another thread in GD "stop liking what i don't like thread" about guys. I swear we are our own worst enemies. Also, the amount of derp about CAS is impressive. |