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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:36:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 12:36:31 PM EDT by 53vortec]
I highly doubt the timing of the ATF's SIG brace announcement is coincidental. I suspect they'll be rolling at SHOT looking for someone to make an example out of.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:37:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I highly doubt the timing of the ATF's SIG brace announcement is coincidental. I suspect they'll be rolling at SHOT looking for someone to make an example out of.
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I think that will backfire on them.  Sure someone might end up taking a ride, but ATF will eventually be the ones getting their dick stomped in the dirt by yet another judge.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:44:09 PM EDT
It will never hold up in court.   They might have the power to regulate hardware, but certainly not actions.  They overstepped, and it will not work out for them. ..
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:46:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I highly doubt the timing of the ATF's SIG brace announcement is coincidental. I suspect they'll be rolling at SHOT looking for someone to make an example out of.
View Quote


I think you're reaching.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:47:35 PM EDT
In order to be convicted of something don't they have to prove your guilt? How are they going to prove something that they have no evidence of? Not illegal to put the brace on a pistol, so they got shit. Fuck them.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:49:01 PM EDT
You trolling?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:49:02 PM EDT
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:49:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrkma:
In order to be convicted of something don't they have to prove your guilt? How are they going to prove something that they have no evidence of? Not illegal to put the brace on a pistol, so they got shit. Fuck them.
View Quote


Hence my suggestion that they'll be on site looking for a finger-fucker to shoulder one.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:50:58 PM EDT
How can they regulate someones intent who did not manufacturer the pistol? The whole jist of their letter was if you build it with the intend of an arm brace it is good to go but if you build with the intent to shoulder its not good to go. How can anyone except the manufacturer or builder be charged with an "intent " violation.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:50:59 PM EDT
Can we keep the brace retardation to one thread?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:51:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You trolling?
View Quote


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:51:19 PM EDT
FATF!
FBHO!
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:51:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.
View Quote

 That would be funny as shit......  Look if they REALLY wanted to play that game, they can find enough people on Youtube
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:54:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 12:56:44 PM EDT by waterglass]
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Originally Posted By 53vortec:


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.
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Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You trolling?


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.


I dont know. But I am pretty sure that most people dont understand these latest ATF letters. They dont say that shouldering a SB is illegal. they say useing them as a shoulder stock on a firearm/pistol is illegal.





Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:54:40 PM EDT
From what I've seen at how efficiently different parts of BATFE communicate with each other...

They might be trolling for brace shoulderers at SHOT 2018.

99.87% of the enforcement guys probably still don't even know what an arm brace is.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:56:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Can we keep the brace retardation to one thread?
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#neverbeendoneb4
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 12:59:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.
View Quote



I love it!
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:08:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Can we keep the brace retardation to one thread?
View Quote


So much butt hurt on this issue.  You can not contain it.   I own a sig brace and no stamps.  I sold one brace and will be filing next week to sbr.   I liked the brace and I liked the freedom it provided, but you choose your battles and i dont want to be the Rosa Parks on an issue like this.  Be honest with yourselves.  Sig marketed this as a wrist brace.  Atf approved it as a brace. 99% of you did not buy it to use it as a brace and probably didnt even try it out as a brace.  ATF can do whatever they want.   They are the IRS of guns and everyone knows you dont meas with them.  So what we should do is start a poll on how long it is going to take for someone to be made an example of by local PD or ATF.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:10:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:12:22 PM EDT
This thread is real retarded, sir.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:13:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ventilator:
This thread is real retarded, sir.
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I wish I could argue that. It may finally be to the point I need to quit posting sober.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 1:39:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 1:41:11 PM EDT by DasRonin]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.
View Quote



Poking the ATF bear with letters, videos and photographs is the trolling that got the results everybody is crying about now!



Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:05:33 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DasRonin:


Poking the ATF bear with letters, videos and photographs is the trolling that got the results everybody is crying about now!






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Originally Posted By DasRonin:



Originally Posted By forker:

Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.






Poking the ATF bear with letters, videos and photographs is the trolling that got the results everybody is crying about now!






The two things are not like each other at all.

 
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:07:48 PM EDT
its government...maybe in 5 years
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:12:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By waterglass:


I dont know. But I am pretty sure that most people dont understand these latest ATF letters. They dont say that shouldering a SB is illegal. they say useing them as a shoulder stock on a firearm/pistol is illegal.

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Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You trolling?


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.


I dont know. But I am pretty sure that most people dont understand these latest ATF letters. They dont say that shouldering a SB is illegal. they say useing them as a shoulder stock on a firearm/pistol is illegal.



So as long as it isn't attached to anything you can place it against your shoulder? I do not get the difference.
Are you saying as long as it's on a 16" or longer rifle it's OK to shoulder?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:14:48 PM EDT
Not going to happen.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:32:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 5:58:38 PM EDT by rippleadder]
I think if it's on a pistol it will be fine. I really believe this came about due to all the idiots writing letters  about building an sbr using the brace instead of paying the tax.

Then again the atf rule by irrational and arbitrary thought so well just have to wait until someone takes them to court...
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:14:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 8:30:31 PM EDT by waterglass]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ToledoXJ:


So as long as it isn't attached to anything you can place it against your shoulder? I do not get the difference.
Are you saying as long as it's on a 16" or longer rifle it's OK to shoulder?
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Originally Posted By ToledoXJ:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You trolling?


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.


I dont know. But I am pretty sure that most people dont understand these latest ATF letters. They dont say that shouldering a SB is illegal. they say useing them as a shoulder stock on a firearm/pistol is illegal.



So as long as it isn't attached to anything you can place it against your shoulder? I do not get the difference.
Are you saying as long as it's on a 16" or longer rifle it's OK to shoulder?


No, I am saying so long as it can be used as designed it isnt a shoulder stock. It becomes a shoulder stock when you redesign a gun to incorporate the SB as a shoulder stock. A shoulder stock has a singular purpose, and that is as a shoulder stock. The sig adapter also has a singular purpose which is to be clamped onto your forearm. If you put a sig brace against your shoulder that does not make it a shoulder stock because it is an arm brace installed onto a pistol and can be used as an arm brace. The words used have a very narrow literal meaning, and people are interpreting the word shoulder stock far too broadly. A shoulder stock is a shoulder stock and an arm brace is an arm brace. An arm brace  becomes a shoulder stock if it is installed and can not be used as an arm brace. Just as a baseball bat, or anything else that isnt a shoulder stock could become a shoulder stock if you fixed it to the back of a pistol for the obvious purpose of using it as a shoulder stock.


There have been a bunch of people who have designed adapters for the sig brace to be used as a stock only. It becomes a stock when it can not be used as designed. You know the cheap plastic clamp on glock shoulder stocks? People have made those that incoroperate a pistol receiver extension for mounting the SB.  The SB would not line up with the grip of the pistol, it could not be used as designed, thus it is a shoulder stock, because it could be used as only a shoulder stock.

There have been other examples along the same line.

here is an example of the sig brace being used as a shoulder stock. It is a shoulder stock because it clearly can not be used as intended.

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:20:07 PM EDT
Wouldn't surprise me if they did. After all that last Shot Show "bust" went so well for them.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:23:48 PM EDT
So if I touch any handgun to my shoulder, should I turn myself in ?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:27:09 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:


Can we keep the brace retardation to one thread?
View Quote


Negative, brace retardation has breached containment barriers and is flowing towards populated areas. Mandatory evacuation in effect.



 
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:27:38 PM EDT
I am glad the 4th wing of the government is making new rules and regulations without being elected.

(4th wing is all of the bullshit agencies that are now funded by our government)
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:41:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By onealphay2k:


So much butt hurt on this issue.  You can not contain it.   I own a sig brace and no stamps.  I sold one brace and will be filing next week to sbr.   I liked the brace and I liked the freedom it provided, but you choose your battles and i dont want to be the Rosa Parks on an issue like this.  Be honest with yourselves.  Sig marketed this as a wrist brace.  Atf approved it as a brace. 99% of you did not buy it to use it as a brace and probably didnt even try it out as a brace.  ATF can do whatever they want.   They are the IRS of guns and everyone knows you dont meas with them.  So what we should do is start a poll on how long it is going to take for someone to be made an example of by local PD or ATF.
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Originally Posted By onealphay2k:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Can we keep the brace retardation to one thread?


So much butt hurt on this issue.  You can not contain it.   I own a sig brace and no stamps.  I sold one brace and will be filing next week to sbr.   I liked the brace and I liked the freedom it provided, but you choose your battles and i dont want to be the Rosa Parks on an issue like this.  Be honest with yourselves.  Sig marketed this as a wrist brace.  Atf approved it as a brace. 99% of you did not buy it to use it as a brace and probably didnt even try it out as a brace.  ATF can do whatever they want.   They are the IRS of guns and everyone knows you dont meas with them.  So what we should do is start a poll on how long it is going to take for someone to be made an example of by local PD or ATF.


I strap one to each arm every time I go to the range.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:42:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DasRonin:



Poking the ATF bear with letters, videos and photographs is the trolling that got the results everybody is crying about now!



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Originally Posted By DasRonin:
Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.



Poking the ATF bear with letters, videos and photographs is the trolling that got the results everybody is crying about now!




Are You a law abiding citizen? They serve You.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:51:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waterglass:


No, I am saying so long as it can be used as designed it isnt a shoulder stock. It becomes a shoulder stock when you redesign a gun to incorporate the SB as a shoulder stock. A shoulder stock has a singular purpose, and that is as a shoulder stock. The sig adapter also has a singular purpose which is to be clamped onto your forearm. If you put a sig brace against your shoulder that does not make it a shoulder stock because it is an arm brace installed onto a pistol and can be used as an arm brace. The words used have a very narrow literal meaning, and people are interpreting the word shoulder stock far too broadly. A shoulder stock is a shoulder stock and an arm brace is an arm brace. An arm brace  becomes a shoulder stock if it is installed and can not be used as an arm brace. Just as a baseball bat, or anything else that isnt a shoulder stock could become a shoulder stock if you fixed it to the back of a pistol for the obvious purpose of using it as a shoulder stock.


There have been a bunch of people who have designed adapters for the sig brace to be used as a stock only. It becomes a stock when it can not be used as designed. You know the cheap plastic clamp on glock shoulder stocks? People have made those that incoroperate a pistol receiver extension for mounting the SB.  The SB would not line up with the grip of the pistol, it could not be used as designed, thus it is a shoulder stock, because it could be used as only a shoulder stock.

There have been other examples along the same line.

here is an example of the sig brace being used as a shoulder stock. It is a shoulder stock because it clearly can not be used as intended.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p712/waterglasss/sigbrace_zpseb024bc1.jpg
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By ToledoXJ:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
You trolling?


Nope. Even if they don't plan on being there looking for brace violations I believe the timing of the brace ruling is directly related to SHOT.


I dont know. But I am pretty sure that most people dont understand these latest ATF letters. They dont say that shouldering a SB is illegal. they say useing them as a shoulder stock on a firearm/pistol is illegal.



So as long as it isn't attached to anything you can place it against your shoulder? I do not get the difference.
Are you saying as long as it's on a 16" or longer rifle it's OK to shoulder?


No, I am saying so long as it can be used as designed it isnt a shoulder stock. It becomes a shoulder stock when you redesign a gun to incorporate the SB as a shoulder stock. A shoulder stock has a singular purpose, and that is as a shoulder stock. The sig adapter also has a singular purpose which is to be clamped onto your forearm. If you put a sig brace against your shoulder that does not make it a shoulder stock because it is an arm brace installed onto a pistol and can be used as an arm brace. The words used have a very narrow literal meaning, and people are interpreting the word shoulder stock far too broadly. A shoulder stock is a shoulder stock and an arm brace is an arm brace. An arm brace  becomes a shoulder stock if it is installed and can not be used as an arm brace. Just as a baseball bat, or anything else that isnt a shoulder stock could become a shoulder stock if you fixed it to the back of a pistol for the obvious purpose of using it as a shoulder stock.


There have been a bunch of people who have designed adapters for the sig brace to be used as a stock only. It becomes a stock when it can not be used as designed. You know the cheap plastic clamp on glock shoulder stocks? People have made those that incoroperate a pistol receiver extension for mounting the SB.  The SB would not line up with the grip of the pistol, it could not be used as designed, thus it is a shoulder stock, because it could be used as only a shoulder stock.

There have been other examples along the same line.

here is an example of the sig brace being used as a shoulder stock. It is a shoulder stock because it clearly can not be used as intended.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p712/waterglasss/sigbrace_zpseb024bc1.jpg


I've actually shot a glock with a setup like that but with the brace actually used as a brace... you had to turn it (the brace) to the side but it worked surprisingly well to steady things up... but you are still correct
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:52:26 PM EDT
ATF couldn't bust them at the SHOT show for that.  It would make a weak case since the gun is likely to be empty (firing pins are removed) and thus the person shouldering it isn't shooting it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:53:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:


I think that will backfire on them.  Sure someone might end up taking a ride, but ATF American taxpayers will eventually be the ones getting their dick stomped in the dirt by yet another judge.
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I highly doubt the timing of the ATF's SIG brace announcement is coincidental. I suspect they'll be rolling at SHOT looking for someone to make an example out of.


I think that will backfire on them.  Sure someone might end up taking a ride, but ATF American taxpayers will eventually be the ones getting their dick stomped in the dirt by yet another judge.


FIFY
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:54:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.
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Yes!
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:57:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By noob5000000:

Yes!
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Originally Posted By noob5000000:
Originally Posted By forker:
Someone should troll the ATF by having a registered SBR there with a sig brace that they let people shoulder.

Yes!


I pointed out in an earlier thread that every gun related youtuber could do this. There's simply no way to know even with video/photo evidence, unless they know the serial number and it's visible in the video whether or not a Sig brace equipped weapon is a registered SBR/SBS or not.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:35:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:41:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

That is legal as fuck bro.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:43:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:52:23 AM EDT
LOL. Is this a tarp?

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:05:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 1:10:30 AM EDT by oldbutspry]
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I highly doubt the timing of the ATF's SIG brace announcement is coincidental. I suspect they'll be rolling at SHOT looking for someone to make an example out of.
View Quote


Nobody will fire anything at Shot Show.  Don't think it counts unless you are going to shoot it (or do shoot it).

Would be fun to shoulder it next to some ATF agents and taunt them.  

"I can't do what?  You mean like this?  Are you sure...  seems ok to me... how do I know this isn't a registered SBR anyway?  I mean, it could be... and if it wasn't, it would be the owner's fault, right?  So what are you gonna do about it?  ...."  


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:09:28 AM EDT
I honestly don't think they care.

This ruling was probably brought about by nothing more than it becoming tiresome of writing letters about the stupid things,especially having to respond to all the idiots who wanted them ruled illegal for whatever anti-social reason those idiots have. I hardly think the courts will be running over with SIG brace prosecutions.

Now,if more retards don't knock it off already then they may just ban them outright and make possession constructive intent.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:16:10 AM EDT
How do those fucks at the ATF sleep at night?

Oh that's right.  Huge paychecks, nice retirements, and an us vs. them mentality.   With the occasional Waco, Ruby ridge, or Bundy ranch thrown in for them to jerk off over.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:18:08 AM EDT
i do not they they want to actually go to court w/ it, not uless they hae a real scumbad guilty of all maner of other crimes who it would be hard to be sympathetic with to be an example.  They know that mericans are champing at the bit to challenge the notion of taxing rights, the MG ban and the defacto ban nature of hte NFA
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:21:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By macphisto:
LOL. Is this a tarp?

http://i.imgur.com/cG9G4fV.jpg
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I'm not buying.  I guess I should sell the one I had for a build before it plummets
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