[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Here's what Sig Sauer is going to in the immediate future regarding the P320 fiasco (Page 4 of 5)
|
Quoted: The process is the punishment. Want to defend, great, hire a lawyer that can go up against Sig's. I guarantee their lawyers can drag it out longer than you have money. I don't see how they fight a state, like Washington. And then try to bureaucratically dismiss safety concerns at a government gun range, saying it's not within the purview of the management of the facility, who is directly responsible for the safety of the facility. Did ICE really have 18 incidents? |
|
Quoted: Everybody who had anything at all to do with hiring him after what he did to Kimber ought to be fired and blacklisted from the entire firearms industry for life. I can't fathom how anyone looked at Kimber at the time and thought it was a good idea to talk to him even casually, much less hire him.  ETA- I wonder what this will do to Flux? I know they're turning out the 365 Flux and were working on another Glock version but they really hung their hat on the P320 FCU.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fuck Sig. What terrible leadership and hope someone gets indicted for criminal negligence. Ron Cohen is a shitbag. Everybody who had anything at all to do with hiring him after what he did to Kimber ought to be fired and blacklisted from the entire firearms industry for life. I can't fathom how anyone looked at Kimber at the time and thought it was a good idea to talk to him even casually, much less hire him. ETA- I wonder what this will do to Flux? I know they're turning out the 365 Flux and were working on another Glock version but they really hung their hat on the P320 FCU. Might be a way to salvage something out of the sunk costs. |
|
Quoted: Poor ol' Jrs93Accord...a few months ago he was bragging about his 320 collection. At that point he had around 20 of them. . In every 320 thread, I keep asking the same question- why on earth would anyone with the funds and freedom to purchase a handgun ever pick the 320 over any of its competitors?? I have two and here are my reasons: 1. feels better in the hand 2. modularity, I have several grips and have set one up as a competition gun, one was set up more as a duty gun with the thumb safety. I chose the slide, barrel, and grip. At the time it was the only gun that could do that. 3. military adopted the pistol and at the time that seemed like a solid testament on its reliability. (Whoo boy was that wrong) 4. It looks cool especially in all FDE. I shot it well in the competitions that I did with it and I liked the 21rd single tube magazines. All of the normal accoutrements worked well with and plenty of holsters (Safariland in particular) were available as well. They were good enough reasons for me to buy a couple of them and start using them. But I don't see myself ever buying another SIG product again. Which is a shame because I wanted a 365. |
|
Quoted: Maybe on this site, but I’m hardly the first online to point it out. You just haven’t seen or noticed it. Quoted: Quoted: I think it has a lot more to do with him torpedoing two high tier gun companies than his last name Theres been a lot of warranted and unwarranted criticisms of Sig recently Congrats on being the first person ive seen to make it about jewish nonsense Maybe on this site, but I’m hardly the first online to point it out. You just haven’t seen or noticed it. alrighty either way, pulling antisemitism into this conversation is pretty stupid and annoying |
|
Quoted: alrighty either way, pulling antisemitism into this conversation is pretty stupid and annoying Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think it has a lot more to do with him torpedoing two high tier gun companies than his last name Theres been a lot of warranted and unwarranted criticisms of Sig recently Congrats on being the first person ive seen to make it about jewish nonsense Maybe on this site, but I’m hardly the first online to point it out. You just haven’t seen or noticed it. alrighty either way, pulling antisemitism into this conversation is pretty stupid and annoying Pretty sure that happens anytime a Jew is called out. Similar things happen when you call out black people — you are racist! |
|
Quoted: Are you a sig gazpacho? Quoted: Quoted: Yeah yeah yeah, another P320 thread, but this is for the future actions of Sig. First, they're denying anything is wrong with the pistol. They claim that "universal holsters" are the reason, along with a plethora of other really dumb shit. So they're buying time. The brass knows full well they're going to fucked royally over with this crap eventually. Civilian sales and LE sales are small potatoes vs military sales, so they're going to stick to their unsafe guns in the meantime before it really fucks them in their ass. So what are they doing now? Buying time and lawsuits. They're hoping to be able to sue places like training centers into not banning the P320. They're going to shut down or else ridicule away people who show their guns fire without having the trigger pulled. Not only the do they think the lawsuits will help buy time, scare other places into not banning the P320, they're going to try to do a cash grab. This will placate the board of directors and also build up a bank for the eventual lawsuits. Which will come. Sig is praying that they get their production right so every P320 after the recent times will have nothing wrong with them. They'll pretend those "other" pistols were either fucked with or used a wrong holster. (Should have used a Sig one!) Once concrete evidence comes out that there are shoddy pistols, Sig will have to spin it as something done post sale. ANY attempt at a acknowledgement that they fucked up will cost them dearly. Having your pistol randomly go off will forever be tattooed on their foreheads for whenever they try to do a lucrative military sale. So their only option is to: Silence people talking about the problems Sue places that ban that pistol Keep on pretending nothing is wrong and there's "reasons" that are outside of their control for these issues The longer Sig can draw out any legal action will mean they can make more contract sales for large orders to militaries. The absolutely second it comes out they put a shit pistol on the market is going to hit them heavily. They're relying on Indian made parts to squeeze every ounce of profit out of these Volkspistoles that they have no other choice but to soldier on and pretend the Emperor has fancy clothes. Are you a sig gazpacho? You're accusing him of being a cold soup? |
|
Quoted: Ive heard the "once evidence comes out that they are shoddy pistols" since like 2018. Im not a fan boy. Do enjoy a good 320 every now and then. But when is this evidence gonna come out? When will people be able to regularly replicate it? At this point im convinced someone is sabotaging sig just because. If someone knows of concrete proof so I can finally settle it in my own head ease point me to it. So, the shake awake feature of the 320 is an intermittent fault that only occurs in certain guns at very rare intervals, and may not happen twice in the same gun. The root cause hasn't been determined. GunTubers and the FBI have been able to demonstrate the timing of the striker safety block is so closely tied to the movemment of the sear that in some guns the striker safety block may be ineffective - and in some 87 cases of police officers, civilians, and servicemembers shot in the ass, leg, knee, foot, ankle, testicle, femoral artery, and chest, we see the striker safety block absolutely was ineffective in those cases, and the striker slipped off the sear. We've found some hints about why the striker might slip off the sear, but we don't have a definitive answer. It may be that SIG doesn't have a definitive answer either - and they can't afford to replace every 320 out there w/ a brand new P365XXL+. It's interesting in both the Taurus and the Remington cases, it took the courts to break them and force them to do a recall. Just called Taurus this morning and confirmed they're gonna ship my customer a brand new G2C for his PT111 that is defective. Taurus is still suffering the reputational damage they inflicted on themselves, and so their G3C is on my table priced less than Glurks. |
|
Quoted: It’s mostly in YouTube comments. Quoted: Quoted: You keep very strange company. Sig fanboys hate Chohen but it’s always his history at Kimber that’s brought up, not the origins of his last name It’s mostly in YouTube comments. oh cool, so this anti semetic nonsense claim is based upon a cesspool that is one level above xbox live, as opposed to anything said on this forum or put forth by anyone in the industry? stupid we are attacking him for having torpedoed more gun companies than Moms Demand Action or Brady who gives a shit about his last name |
|
Quoted: Poor ol' Jrs93Accord...a few months ago he was bragging about his 320 collection. At that point he had around 20 of them. . In every 320 thread, I keep asking the same question- why on earth would anyone with the funds and freedom to purchase a handgun ever pick the 320 over any of its competitors?? Q: "What is it for?" A: "It's FOR SALE. Duh." |
|
Quoted: Q: "What is it for?" A: "It's FOR SALE. Duh." Quoted: Quoted: Poor ol' Jrs93Accord...a few months ago he was bragging about his 320 collection. At that point he had around 20 of them. . In every 320 thread, I keep asking the same question- why on earth would anyone with the funds and freedom to purchase a handgun ever pick the 320 over any of its competitors?? Q: "What is it for?" A: "It's FOR SALE. Duh." CAL Ranch (Local Gun/Hardware store) had a "flash sale" on 320s over the weekend... |
|
Went through the gun cabinet at work and tested the 8-10 320s of being sizes and years for Shaken Slide. With the trigger held to the wall, I pinched and wiggled and shook and manipulated the slide every way I could for 30sec per. No striker drop, even in the guns that exhibited the false sear when put together like a Glock. Not sure what that means, but it seems like a good sign. |
|
Quoted: For $100 I kinda want one just to fuck around with. Maybe come up with a drop in solution, who knows? Quoted: Quoted: Someone posted that Gander Mountain won't buy 320s. Ben Stoeger said he heard gunshops are offering $ 100 for a used 320 For $100 I kinda want one just to fuck around with. Maybe come up with a drop in solution, who knows? For $100 I'd buy one just because I expect Flux to take a hit too and prices to drop. As the other poster said, most folks don't seem to carry those with a round in the chamber anyways so I'd be OK owning one for that specific use. |
|
Quoted: I purchased the M17 because our military adopted it. I have always been a SIG fanboy, probably always will be. The P225, P220 and P226 series handguns are as good as it gets. IDK what happened with the P320. Is the trigger too light for a striker fired pistol? Ian has a good video discussing this problem that was just posted today on Forgotten Weapons. I mostly agree with everything he said. If SIG could identify the problem, they could and would, fix the problem. It's like showing up at the car dealership complaining about an intermittent problem that isn't happening right now, can't be replicated and only happens when the stars align. Nobody has been able to show that the pistols (even the ones that accidently discharged) have a fatal flaw that can be replicated. The recently posted video showing the striker dropping on a P320 with an incredibly sloppy slide to frame fit appears to be manipulated IMO. Why hasn't anyone else been able to repeat accidental discharges, even in the actual pistols involved in the AD's? Contracting parts manufacturing to India may be part of the problem. I would assume, that SIG management and employees have quality controls in place. No major manufacturer, regardless of the products being made, wants product failures. Especially if that failure can cause serious injuries or death. If SIG could fix it, IMO they would fix it. It does not behoove them to allow this to continue. I believe SIG is frustrated with this problem, don't know what is causing it and therefore can't fix it. If everyone in quality control and their extensive engineering departments can't replicate or identify the problem, they have no other choice than to blame others. If they know what is wrong and are refusing to fix it out of financial considerations, that will be the end of their company. They probably aren't able to narrow it down to one thing, because there's so much fucked up about the design they'd have to start over. They're too far in now. |
|
Quoted: I'm going to take a bath on my 365XL. Yes, I understand it's a different design than the 320. I just don't want to support the company any longer. I'll keep their rebranded Holosun optics with some tape or a coat of paint over their logo. Would you do the same with a P226? You already paid for the gun, use it. Nothing wrong with that design. Now not purchasing any new SiG products is legit. I wont buy a new SiG either until they make good on the 320. I've got a 700 dollar paper weight. |
|
Ill 1000% continue buying older hammer fire sigs. Heres hoping this shame will bring their prices down!!! The p320 has saddened me though. I bought it for a couple reasons, some already stated in this thread, feels good in hand, shoots great, and military use. I refuse to take it out now. Once i get back from vacation im gojng to pick it up from consignment, and stick it in the safe untill (if) they come up with an actual fix. I hope they get their head out of their ass though. |
|
Quoted: I'm going to take a bath on my 365XL. Yes, I understand it's a different design than the 320. I just don't want to support the company any longer. I'll keep their rebranded Holosun optics with some tape or a coat of paint over their logo. Yeah. I've been meaning to sell my XL for a couple years. I finally gave it to my FFL for consignment last week. I'll consider myself lucky if I get 50% of my $ back on what is a like new gun (except for some rusty mags, of course). |
|
Quoted: Would you do the same with a P226? You already paid for the gun, use it. Nothing wrong with that design. Now not purchasing any new SiG products is legit. I wont buy a new SiG either until they make good on the 320. I've got a 700 dollar paper weight. I understand your point. I haven't purchased Glocks for a while because I was a little disgusted with how Gaston Glock treated his family after he fucked his side piece. But the ass bag is dead, and the company that bears his name but also the name of his family that helped him build it still makes solid pistols. Sig Sauer on the other hand is ACTIVELY suing people and companies that are CHOOSING to ban their fucked up P320 and M18 from the properties or gatherings. They are actively denying ANY issues exists with their shitty pistol and they have a history of hemming and hawing people with P365 issues. Instead of saying we will fix our shitty gun that we KNOW is fucked up and has been proven to be fucked up, they are just being as shitty as the 320 and acting like their shit don't stink. Its pretty offensive to anyone with a functioning brain how they are acting. |
|
Quoted: Would you do the same with a P226? You already paid for the gun, use it. Nothing wrong with that design. Now not purchasing any new SiG products is legit. I wont buy a new SiG either until they make good on the 320. I've got a 700 dollar paper weight. Quoted: Quoted: I'm going to take a bath on my 365XL. Yes, I understand it's a different design than the 320. I just don't want to support the company any longer. I'll keep their rebranded Holosun optics with some tape or a coat of paint over their logo. Would you do the same with a P226? You already paid for the gun, use it. Nothing wrong with that design. Now not purchasing any new SiG products is legit. I wont buy a new SiG either until they make good on the 320. I've got a 700 dollar paper weight. It won't make a difference to Sig if you continue using their product or not-- they just want you to buy it in the first place and to keep buying magazines/accessories from them over time. In fact, the person that buys the P365 may go out and immediately buy magazines or other Sig accessories from them. |
|
Hope this works. I'm sure I'm not the only one that received this e-mail. SIG SAUER P320 Information P320 Safety Information Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information. SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts. The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world. FBI Testing and Report A recently publicized internal report from the FBI’s Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing. Department of Homeland Security An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America. U.S. Air Force M18 There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military’s ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information. P320 Range and Training Bans Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth. The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here. As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses. We respect the public’s concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team. SIG SAUER, Inc. 72 Pease Blvd. Newington, NH 03801 No longer want to receive these emails? Unsubscribe. SIG SAUER 72 PEASE BLVD NEWINGTON, New Hampshire 03801 |
|
Quoted: I think it has a lot more to do with him torpedoing two high tier gun companies than his last name Theres been a lot of warranted and unwarranted criticisms of Sig recently Congrats on being the first person ive seen to make it about jewish nonsense Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fuck Sig. What terrible leadership and hope someone gets indicted for criminal negligence. Ron Cohen is a shitbag. I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name.  I think it has a lot more to do with him torpedoing two high tier gun companies than his last name Theres been a lot of warranted and unwarranted criticisms of Sig recently Congrats on being the first person ive seen to make it about jewish nonsense This military contract was promised to him 3,000 years ago. |
|
Quoted: I'm going to take a bath on my 365XL. Yes, I understand it's a different design than the 320. I just don't want to support the company any longer. I'll keep their rebranded Holosun optics with some tape or a coat of paint over their logo. Are you sure you are not a closet liberal? Selling a gun that admittedly works just fine because that company made a different product that is questionable is thinking with your heart and not your head. It’s all about “the feels”, huh? 
|
|
Quoted: I have two Sigs, one since 1989. I intend to enjoy them for many years to come. You are no prophet. Go ahead and dump them. Someone else will buy them at a bargain price and own a great gun. How long did it take for Remington to fix the Model 700? Everyone raved about it. People still own them. The 1911 was defective from the beginning. Still, we fought two World Wars and countless other conflicts. Tens of thousands of police carried it too. It wasn't until the Model 80 series that the problem was fixed. Many still complained, but snapped them up all the same. However, you risk your life on GD if you badmouth it. Quoted: Quoted: I have 2 Sigs and I think I will be trading the off as soon as I can get to the gun shop. That company is trash now. I have two Sigs, one since 1989. I intend to enjoy them for many years to come. You are no prophet. Go ahead and dump them. Someone else will buy them at a bargain price and own a great gun. How long did it take for Remington to fix the Model 700? Everyone raved about it. People still own them. The 1911 was defective from the beginning. Still, we fought two World Wars and countless other conflicts. Tens of thousands of police carried it too. It wasn't until the Model 80 series that the problem was fixed. Many still complained, but snapped them up all the same. However, you risk your life on GD if you badmouth it. Comparing the P320 holster pops, to series 70 1911's "not being drop safe" with a free floating firing pin... That's some mass delusion and cope right there buddy. Those 1911's were used in mass for decades, and no one really noticed or gave a shit. There certainly wasn't a dead dude and a bunch of dudes with holes in their legs over it, in the first few years. |
|
Quoted: Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Are you saying everyone hates the P320 because they're antisemites? |
|
Quoted: Comparing the P320 holster pops, to series 70 1911's "not being drop safe" with a free floating firing pin... That's some mass delusion and cope right there buddy. Those 1911's were used in mass for decades, and no one really noticed or gave a shit. There certainly wasn't a dead dude and a bunch of dudes with holes in their legs over it, in the first few years. The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. |
|
Quoted: The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. Quoted: Quoted: Comparing the P320 holster pops, to series 70 1911's "not being drop safe" with a free floating firing pin... That's some mass delusion and cope right there buddy. Those 1911's were used in mass for decades, and no one really noticed or gave a shit. There certainly wasn't a dead dude and a bunch of dudes with holes in their legs over it, in the first few years. The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. Ever hear about how the cowboys would only load 5 in their "six-shooters?" It's because they didn't want to bump the hammer and have a negligent discharge. Plenty of products got a bad reputation before the advent of the internet. For example, the M16's issues in Vietnam. Ever read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair? The nation was being gripped by these kinds of stories long before television or the internet. |
|
Quoted: Are you sure you are not a closet liberal? Selling a gun that admittedly works just fine because that company made a different product that is questionable is thinking with your heart and not your head. It’s all about “the feels”, huh? Well, let me clarify. Sig Sauer is showing themselves to be a shitty company run buy arrogant douchebags in the face of proven safety issues from a mass produced gun used by our military (1 dead at least) and a shit load of civilian and LEOs. They should be responsible enough to quietly address the issue, fix their gun and go from there. Instead, their response is to actively deny deny deny, sue places of business for banning their products from private property. They apparently have set up a fuckin SNITCH line so SIG shills can report these places to Sig SO THEY CAN SUE THEM and generally are recklessly carrying on like PROOF and evidence of their shitty pistol design mean nothing and everything is fine. If it makes you feel good and edgy calling me a liberal because I no longer want to be associated with this shit fucking company, or own a product from a company that QUITE OBVIOUSLY DOESNT GIVE A FUCKING SHIT about their customers, then fuck I guess I'm a liberal. |
|
Quoted: The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. Quoted: Quoted: Comparing the P320 holster pops, to series 70 1911's "not being drop safe" with a free floating firing pin... That's some mass delusion and cope right there buddy. Those 1911's were used in mass for decades, and no one really noticed or gave a shit. There certainly wasn't a dead dude and a bunch of dudes with holes in their legs over it, in the first few years. The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. Browning did invent multiple guns that had legitimate shake awake safety issues... Guess what? People stopped buying them. They are not around 115 years later. And we are very aware of the issues. There are histories and books and now Youtube videos about it. If you actually know anything about the "drop safety" issues with a 1911, you understand that the circumstances it can happen, make it very unlikely to happen and ensure it won't happen with any great frequency. Then there's the fact that the way those discharges happen, muzzle down into a hard surface, make it very unlikely for injury to result. So basically no one even noticed for decades. Then when they noticed, the fix was easy. Yet it's such a non issue, that people to this day prefer the so called "unsafe" version. Those "unsafe" designs were and still are being sold by Staccato as duty guns. The free floating firing pin is such a crazy unsafe concept, that the US military still currently issues multiple weapons of similar design, with the same level of safety risk. That includes the M-4 / AR-15. Do you consider your AR an unsafe design compatible to a piece of shit P-320 that will shake awake in the holster and fuck up your foot? Even if it was plausible that the 1911 had issues of similar severity and scale...You do realize books and paper existed a hundred years ago? Newspapers? It would have been noticed, recorded and we would know. It just wasn't. Yes it is true that standards for gun tech, in every way, were lower 110+ years ago. Yet Browning's 1911 design was safer to carry then, than a Sig P320 is now. And the Sigiots had the benefit of learning from Browning and all the designs that came after, yet still fucked it up monumentally. |
|
Quoted: Are you saying everyone hates the P320 because they're antisemites? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Are you saying everyone hates the P320 because they're antisemites? It’s all so tiresome. |
|
Quoted: Browning did invent multiple guns that had legitimate shake awake safety issues... Guess what? People stopped buying them. They are not around 115 years later. And we are very aware of the issues. There are histories and books and now Youtube videos about it. If you actually know anything about the "drop safety" issues with a 1911, you understand that the circumstances it can happen, make it very unlikely to happen and ensure it won't happen with any great frequency. Then there's the fact that the way those discharges happen, muzzle down into a hard surface, make it very unlikely for injury to result. So basically no one even noticed for decades. Then when they noticed, the fix was easy. Yet it's such a non issue, that people to this day prefer the so called "unsafe" version. Those "unsafe" designs were and still are being sold by Staccato as duty guns. The free floating firing pin is such a crazy unsafe concept, that the US military still currently issues multiple weapons of similar design, with the same level of safety risk. That includes the M-4 / AR-15. Do you consider your AR an unsafe design compatible to a piece of shit P-320 that will shake awake in the holster and fuck up your foot? Even if it was plausible that the 1911 had issues of similar severity and scale...You do realize books and paper existed a hundred years ago? Newspapers? It would have been noticed, recorded and we would know. It just wasn't. Yes it is true that standards for gun tech, in every way, were lower 110+ years ago. Yet Browning's 1911 design was safer to carry then, than a Sig P320 is now. And the Sigiots had the benefit of learning from Browning and all the designs that came after, yet still fucked it up monumentally. Excellent post. |
| SIG Sauer made some of the best handguns in the world in the 80s and 90s in the P 220 series. It sucks to see what that company (at least the US part) has come to since then. I don't pretend to know how the company is set up, but I am sure it will affect all of it. I wonder how it is going to affect the issuance of the M7. |
|
Quoted: Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. WTF is that supposed to mean? People have been bitching about SIG going down hill for about 15 years now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up the CEO's religion till this thread. |
|
Quoted: WTF is that supposed to mean? People have been bitching about SIG going down hill for about 15 years now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up the CEO's religion till this thread. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. WTF is that supposed to mean? People have been bitching about SIG going down hill for about 15 years now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up the CEO's religion till this thread. His service in the IDF has been mentioned. Amusingly, the IDF doesn't use the 320. |
|
Quoted: WTF is that supposed to mean? People have been bitching about SIG going down hill for about 15 years now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up the CEO's religion till this thread. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. WTF is that supposed to mean? People have been bitching about SIG going down hill for about 15 years now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up the CEO's religion till this thread. It's a deliberate attempt into inject antisemitism into the argument to distract and dissuade from legitimate criticism of the 320 design or the company, and if nothing else, get the thread locked. |
|
Quoted: So, the shake awake feature of the 320 is an intermittent fault that only occurs in certain guns at very rare intervals, and may not happen twice in the same gun. The root cause hasn't been determined. GunTubers and the FBI have been able to demonstrate the timing of the striker safety block is so closely tied to the movemment of the sear that in some guns the striker safety block may be ineffective - and in some 87 cases of police officers, civilians, and servicemembers shot in the ass, leg, knee, foot, ankle, testicle, femoral artery, and chest, we see the striker safety block absolutely was ineffective in those cases, and the striker slipped off the sear. We've found some hints about why the striker might slip off the sear, but we don't have a definitive answer. It may be that SIG doesn't have a definitive answer either - and they can't afford to replace every 320 out there w/ a brand new P365XXL+. It's interesting in both the Taurus and the Remington cases, it took the courts to break them and force them to do a recall. Just called Taurus this morning and confirmed they're gonna ship my customer a brand new G2C for his PT111 that is defective. Taurus is still suffering the reputational damage they inflicted on themselves, and so their G3C is on my table priced less than Glurks. Quoted: Quoted: Ive heard the "once evidence comes out that they are shoddy pistols" since like 2018. Im not a fan boy. Do enjoy a good 320 every now and then. But when is this evidence gonna come out? When will people be able to regularly replicate it? At this point im convinced someone is sabotaging sig just because. If someone knows of concrete proof so I can finally settle it in my own head ease point me to it. So, the shake awake feature of the 320 is an intermittent fault that only occurs in certain guns at very rare intervals, and may not happen twice in the same gun. The root cause hasn't been determined. GunTubers and the FBI have been able to demonstrate the timing of the striker safety block is so closely tied to the movemment of the sear that in some guns the striker safety block may be ineffective - and in some 87 cases of police officers, civilians, and servicemembers shot in the ass, leg, knee, foot, ankle, testicle, femoral artery, and chest, we see the striker safety block absolutely was ineffective in those cases, and the striker slipped off the sear. We've found some hints about why the striker might slip off the sear, but we don't have a definitive answer. It may be that SIG doesn't have a definitive answer either - and they can't afford to replace every 320 out there w/ a brand new P365XXL+. It's interesting in both the Taurus and the Remington cases, it took the courts to break them and force them to do a recall. Just called Taurus this morning and confirmed they're gonna ship my customer a brand new G2C for his PT111 that is defective. Taurus is still suffering the reputational damage they inflicted on themselves, and so their G3C is on my table priced less than Glurks. |
|
Quoted: Wait, I thought Taurus ended that? I have POS pt140 of love to get rid of. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ive heard the "once evidence comes out that they are shoddy pistols" since like 2018. Im not a fan boy. Do enjoy a good 320 every now and then. But when is this evidence gonna come out? When will people be able to regularly replicate it? At this point im convinced someone is sabotaging sig just because. If someone knows of concrete proof so I can finally settle it in my own head ease point me to it. So, the shake awake feature of the 320 is an intermittent fault that only occurs in certain guns at very rare intervals, and may not happen twice in the same gun. The root cause hasn't been determined. GunTubers and the FBI have been able to demonstrate the timing of the striker safety block is so closely tied to the movemment of the sear that in some guns the striker safety block may be ineffective - and in some 87 cases of police officers, civilians, and servicemembers shot in the ass, leg, knee, foot, ankle, testicle, femoral artery, and chest, we see the striker safety block absolutely was ineffective in those cases, and the striker slipped off the sear. We've found some hints about why the striker might slip off the sear, but we don't have a definitive answer. It may be that SIG doesn't have a definitive answer either - and they can't afford to replace every 320 out there w/ a brand new P365XXL+. It's interesting in both the Taurus and the Remington cases, it took the courts to break them and force them to do a recall. Just called Taurus this morning and confirmed they're gonna ship my customer a brand new G2C for his PT111 that is defective. Taurus is still suffering the reputational damage they inflicted on themselves, and so their G3C is on my table priced less than Glurks. Wait, I thought Taurus ended that? I have POS pt140 of love to get rid of. Call em, tell em you want to check if your Taurus serial number is part of the recall. Will be a new SN, so will have to ship through a dealer and you pay the transfer fee. |
|
Quoted: I have two and here are my reasons: 1. feels better in the hand 2. modularity, I have several grips and have set one up as a competition gun, one was set up more as a duty gun with the thumb safety. I chose the slide, barrel, and grip. At the time it was the only gun that could do that. 3. military adopted the pistol and at the time that seemed like a solid testament on its reliability. (Whoo boy was that wrong) 4. It looks cool especially in all FDE. I shot it well in the competitions that I did with it and I liked the 21rd single tube magazines. All of the normal accoutrements worked well with and plenty of holsters (Safariland in particular) were available as well. They were good enough reasons for me to buy a couple of them and start using them. But I don't see myself ever buying another SIG product again. Which is a shame because I wanted a 365. Quoted: Quoted: Poor ol' Jrs93Accord...a few months ago he was bragging about his 320 collection. At that point he had around 20 of them. . In every 320 thread, I keep asking the same question- why on earth would anyone with the funds and freedom to purchase a handgun ever pick the 320 over any of its competitors?? I have two and here are my reasons: 1. feels better in the hand 2. modularity, I have several grips and have set one up as a competition gun, one was set up more as a duty gun with the thumb safety. I chose the slide, barrel, and grip. At the time it was the only gun that could do that. 3. military adopted the pistol and at the time that seemed like a solid testament on its reliability. (Whoo boy was that wrong) 4. It looks cool especially in all FDE. I shot it well in the competitions that I did with it and I liked the 21rd single tube magazines. All of the normal accoutrements worked well with and plenty of holsters (Safariland in particular) were available as well. They were good enough reasons for me to buy a couple of them and start using them. But I don't see myself ever buying another SIG product again. Which is a shame because I wanted a 365. Honestly, I kinda dig the P211. But no fucking way I’ll buy Sig with all of their gaslighting and obfuscation. Which is too bad, I bet it’s a great pistol. I bought a Staccato P4.5 instead. |
|
Quoted: Well, let me clarify. Sig Sauer is showing themselves to be a shitty company run buy arrogant douchebags ……I no longer want to be associated with this shit fucking company, or own a product from a company that QUITE OBVIOUSLY DOESNT GIVE A FUCKING SHIT about their customers, then fuck I guess I'm a liberal. So basically you dumping your P365 is a form of virtue signaling. |
|
Quoted: Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Quoted: Quoted: I’ve seen a lot of usual suspects on other social media already blaming this whole debacle on him because he has a Jewish name. Yeah that’s kind of this whole scene. Not at all Pages and pages in countless threads and you are the only one making this crap up |
|
Quoted: Browning did invent multiple guns that had legitimate shake awake safety issues... Guess what? People stopped buying them. They are not around 115 years later. And we are very aware of the issues. There are histories and books and now Youtube videos about it. If you actually know anything about the "drop safety" issues with a 1911, you understand that the circumstances it can happen, make it very unlikely to happen and ensure it won't happen with any great frequency. Then there's the fact that the way those discharges happen, muzzle down into a hard surface, make it very unlikely for injury to result. So basically no one even noticed for decades. Then when they noticed, the fix was easy. Yet it's such a non issue, that people to this day prefer the so called "unsafe" version. Those "unsafe" designs were and still are being sold by Staccato as duty guns. The free floating firing pin is such a crazy unsafe concept, that the US military still currently issues multiple weapons of similar design, with the same level of safety risk. That includes the M-4 / AR-15. Do you consider your AR an unsafe design compatible to a piece of shit P-320 that will shake awake in the holster and fuck up your foot? Even if it was plausible that the 1911 had issues of similar severity and scale...You do realize books and paper existed a hundred years ago? Newspapers? It would have been noticed, recorded and we would know. It just wasn't. Yes it is true that standards for gun tech, in every way, were lower 110+ years ago. Yet Browning's 1911 design was safer to carry then, than a Sig P320 is now. And the Sigiots had the benefit of learning from Browning and all the designs that came after, yet still fucked it up monumentally. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Comparing the P320 holster pops, to series 70 1911's "not being drop safe" with a free floating firing pin... That's some mass delusion and cope right there buddy. Those 1911's were used in mass for decades, and no one really noticed or gave a shit. There certainly wasn't a dead dude and a bunch of dudes with holes in their legs over it, in the first few years. The 1911 was used in large numbers before YouTube and the internet. You have no idea how many people NDed themselves with a 1911 back then because it wasn't broadcast everywhere. Browning would have a totally different reputation if he came out with a non drop safe gun with barely functioning magazines in today's media environment. Conversely, if the P320 had come out back then, no one would have ever know someone shot themselves with it and everyone would have happily gone on buying it. Browning did invent multiple guns that had legitimate shake awake safety issues... Guess what? People stopped buying them. They are not around 115 years later. And we are very aware of the issues. There are histories and books and now Youtube videos about it. If you actually know anything about the "drop safety" issues with a 1911, you understand that the circumstances it can happen, make it very unlikely to happen and ensure it won't happen with any great frequency. Then there's the fact that the way those discharges happen, muzzle down into a hard surface, make it very unlikely for injury to result. So basically no one even noticed for decades. Then when they noticed, the fix was easy. Yet it's such a non issue, that people to this day prefer the so called "unsafe" version. Those "unsafe" designs were and still are being sold by Staccato as duty guns. The free floating firing pin is such a crazy unsafe concept, that the US military still currently issues multiple weapons of similar design, with the same level of safety risk. That includes the M-4 / AR-15. Do you consider your AR an unsafe design compatible to a piece of shit P-320 that will shake awake in the holster and fuck up your foot? Even if it was plausible that the 1911 had issues of similar severity and scale...You do realize books and paper existed a hundred years ago? Newspapers? It would have been noticed, recorded and we would know. It just wasn't. Yes it is true that standards for gun tech, in every way, were lower 110+ years ago. Yet Browning's 1911 design was safer to carry then, than a Sig P320 is now. And the Sigiots had the benefit of learning from Browning and all the designs that came after, yet still fucked it up monumentally. Free floating firing pins are not a problem in a fleet gun with issued ammo as the agency can spec a hard primer. This is what DOD does...mil primers have thicker and harder cups that are also required for fixed firing pins on belt feds. The problem is floating firing pins combined with soft commercial primer cups. |