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ngram is cruising Highway 431 looking for smugglers when a call comes in for a backup to a traffic stop. He guns his Crown Victoria and flies past an antiques store, a public library and a VFW post, coming to a stop in front of a church marquee that reads, "Jesus is coming soon." A thin woman in a polka-dot blouse and jeans, holding a baby, stands beside a dented sedan. The sheriff is interviewing her, while her glowering husband stands nearby. "I ain't had nothin' to drink but one beer at 6 p.m. — four, five hours ago. You can gimme a Breathalyzer or whatever," she says, indignantly. Ingram crawls into the back seat and with a swift, practiced technique searches the seat cushion, the baby carrier and the floorboard. The driver holds her infant on her hip and rolls her eyes. "I don't even do crack cocaine, that's crazy!" she protests. When Ingram doesn't find any drugs, he smiles and tells her, "Have a good day. … Don't drink no more." "OK, I won't, I promise," she answers with relief, as she climbs back into her car. Then Ingram drives back toward his favorite spot on the grassy median, where he'll sit and wait, to see what the highway brings him Funny... I fail to note what the initial stop was for and when/how consent to search was given |
I don't think it needs to be totally done away with, but it needs a serious revamping. |
NPR |
Who counts it? 
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Nah... Not Charity... Give the seized assets to State or Federal agencies, under the rule that not a dime can be spent by any agency involved in the seizure... No profit motive to sieze.... But they guy hauling $100k of drug money in the doors or seat cushion of his car still gets busted.... The system by which forfeiture works should be changed - BUT the fact still remains that large amounts of cash are a pretty good indicator of criminal behavior... Not $5k, mind you.... But $100k? 1 mil? Definitely raises a strong possiblity.... If it's hidden in parts of the car? Very strong possibility.... Drugs present in the car (like the guy who's car smelled of pot, and had pot residue in it)? Seize it all... That's stupid games/stupid prizes territory..... No question on that one.... |
How about this for a novel idea: Don't take it at all unless an arrest is made, and once an arrest is made hold it as evidence; once convicted, do whatever the hell you want with it. But no conviction, no money. |
Not that far... Sieze it... Hold it and have a civil trial where the government has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the money/assets were related to or proceeds from a crime (as opposed to the citizen having to prove that it was not)... In the end, the same ends are accomplished... It's just more 'fair' to the occasional oddball who uses the body panels of his car for a piggy-bank, for totally innocent reasons....  P.S. I have no problem with 'There was a small amount of pot in your car... It's now our car... Everything in it that's not live and breathing? Ours too'.... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes... Everyone knows drugs are illegal, and I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught with them... |
No, that's not quite the same, unless you're only talking about doing it as part of an arrest as well. Somebody who is not being arrested should not have his private property seized for any amount of time. That's just wrong. |
I don't agree with that... I just think the government should have to prove it's case... Not the citizen... I'm perfectly fine with siezure without criminal conviction... The point is that you can still get them after they've gotten rid of the drugs and are bringing the money back to their boss.... In the end, it's a self-correcting problem... People become aware of the law (in whatever form it's executed) and put their money in the bank... Well, except the ones who would get busted for their illegal activities if they did that... They still have to use the 'First bank of Ford'... And eventually, they get pulled over.... |
I guess this is one way to force the US to become a cashless society. The only downside to ATM dependency is that they charge $2-$5 if you use one which is not from your bank, They are dependent on electricity/internet connection/ the ammount of cash inside and most banks have a $300 limit per day. They (the card) can also become damaged or erased. Although I like my ATM card, I like cash better. ETA: In an emergency situation where power is out I would imagine a lot of pissed off (moneyless) people will be standing in front of ATM's. |
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Is there a general consensus as to the cut-off for the amount of cash you're carrying being suspicious? I know plenty of old timers that prefer to carry cash and I've been known to have a few bills on me (Blade show, etc.). For law-abiding citizens that prefer to carry cash, what's the solution? |
What if I'm carrying a big pile of cash to my class 3 dealer to buy a new machine gun? Why is it right for the cops to take my money without arresting me, and for me to only get it back after a hearing? That's simply asinine, Dave. Your opinion is fucking stupid. I don't mean that as a personal attack. I hope to inspire some self reflection. Seriously, what has happened to America? |
It may raise a possibility. It may raise a strong possibility. You do NOT have the right to seize assets on that ground. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Where is the cap on the money you can carry legally without it being seized? Shit, let's look at it this way. 500 rounds of ammo? Eh, could go either way. 1,000 rounds? Definitely up to criminal activity. 5,000 rounds? Holy fuck, are you going to war? I mean sure, sometimes we have that oddball guy who carries 5,000 rounds of ammunition to the range but c'mon, if we stop one crime from happening it's worth it - right? Your thought process makes me sick.
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+1. Glad I didn't get pulled over by Dave on the way to my MG dealer. Your opinion is fucking stupid. I had to say it again. |
You mean the car that supposedly had an "untestable" amount of pot on the floor? That car?  You are seriously gullible. |
I honestly think after reading enough of Dave_A's posts that there is not a single government action he won't support. Thankfully there are a fair amount of independent thinkers to counter his type. |
Hence, the reason IBD_A has become an arfcom staple. |
That concept is dead, evidently.  Seizing money or assets amounts to a conviction of the accused with the penalty being a fine in that amount. There's no other way to look at it. |
Public schooling. |
Let me get this straight. If you're not speeding and you keep your eyes on the road, that makes you suspect. JBT: Sir, do you know why I pulled you over? Citizen: No sir. JBT: You weren't speeding. Now, please step out of the car, I'm going to need to search your vehicle. |
Exactly. You get to punish "criminals" without all that pesky courts/trials/judges/juries nonsense. And, let's face it... when cops are given such a strong incentive to seize money... Nah, there's no chance of abuse. |
Lovin' it!!!  But don't hold your breath on him reflecting too hard. Over the years, he's more than defined his future as the face of those who'll be more than happy to enforce unconstitutional directives should he be asked/ordered to do so. |
Cop: Sir, do you know why I pulled you over? Citizen: Does it really matter? Cop: Not in the least. Now, step out of the car, empty your wallet and bend over. Ah... freedom! |
of course..........makes it easier for 'em to count their bribe.....err.....i mean "asset forfeiture |
Gee, don't want to take money because it would look bad in court? How about because taking people's money is wrong? The distinction between cops and criminals just got A LOT fuzzier.
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QFT. |
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The biggest problem I have with asset forfeiture (other than wrogful seizures) is the same problem I have with state lotteries - the eventual mis/redirection of agency funds making them more dependent on the forfeiture. As an example, let's say that ABC PD was budgeted $1,000,000 for FY "X". If they get $100K in forfeited assests, then the city/county decides "oh, we can cut the PD budget to $900K, and that $100K can go to hire my nephew as a consultant and built "Bigass Politician Park". So the agency now has to scrounge for funds - make more seizures - just to cover expenses.
As a guy in the street I say this is bullshit. Of course, the chair polishers and politicians think this is a great thing...
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I wonder if that is why they don't want to 'win' the War on Drugs? |
Hey Dave_A, last August I drove within spitting distance of the Mexican border with $23,000 USD in my truck...Oh, I also had an AR, 2 pistols, and an OTV (translation: IBA  ) in plain view...USBP asked if I was .mil and waved me through...Should they have seized my money?
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