[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bought with a bill of sale only, obtained valid title via Vermont process. (Page 3 of 3)
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Quoted: The check that I mailed with my packet on 8-26 cleared my bank last night. Not sure why it took so long this time compared to the last time (in the OP). Perhaps it's because I had some non-native VT documents in the packet this time (signed MO bill of sale instead of VT bill of sale, etc). Either way, I expect to get the plate in the next week or two and the stickers/registration paperwork a week or so after that. |
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Quoted: You don't get the title directly from VT. You obtain their registration document, take that document to your local DMV and convert that document to a title from your state. Applying for a title directly from VT will get the application kicked back. The key to the VT process is getting the "registration" document from them. Unique to VT is the fact that the registration document is their legal ownership document. Most other states use titles. VT does not. As such, taking the VT registration document to your local DMV is what allows the conversion from VT "registration" to title from "your state". The whole goal is to get that registration document from VT. If you have a registration document from any other state it won't work, as that state likely uses titles as ownership documents. If I present an OK registration document to MO DMV, MO DMV will say "where is your OK title?" I'll say "I don't have it, I just have the registration." MO DMV will say "kick rocks until you have the OK title, because OK uses titles". If I present a VT registration document to MO DMV, MO DMV will say "where is your VT title?" I'll say "VT doesn't title boats older than 15 years or under 16' in length. They are non-titling state. This registration is my legal ownership document from VT". MO DMV will say "I think that's a load of bullshit, but let me call a supervisor." Shortly afterward MO DMV will say "Ok, looks like that registration paperwork is all I need from VT. Here you go. |
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Quoted: Isn't there a cc limit to this process? I have an XS650 but I think I checked into this years ago and it was over the engine cc limit. VT doesn't title for motorcycles under 300cc or over 15 years old. If you meet either of these criteria you qualify for the VT process. XS650 is a mid 80's bike, correct? My DRZ's are all 400cc and they've gone through fine. |
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Additional info. I emailed VT DMV asking how to proceed on vehicles with non-standard VIN #s (17 digit VIN standard didn't go into effect until 1981, so basically any pre-1981 vehicle). They said put the manufacturer's identification number wherever docs ask for VIN #. So for my friend's 1953 Chevy with a 10 digit "serial number", my 1974 Honda Z50 with a manufacturer's headstock stamping beginning with "Z50A-", and my dad's old john boat with a 6-digit stamped plate...that's just what I'll be doing. We'll see how that ends up. In addition, taken from the MULES (Missouri Uniform Law Enforcement System) training documents: "National Insurance Crime Bureau: NICB The National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) maintains a rapidly expanding national and international index of more than 250 million records related to vehicles. NICB has a mirror image of NCIC's stolen vehicle file. Every stolen vehicle entered in NCIC will be passed to NICB by NCIC. NCIC records purge, but NICB records do not." This essentially means you can make sure your vehicle isn't listed as stolen in NCIC by running the vin through here: https://www.nicb.org/vincheck That site only takes standardized (1981 or later) VINs though. |
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Just made it back home from the 2nd MO DOR (license bureau) office I've visited today. I decided to try my local one vs the further (but better reputation) one I used for the first VT packet. Everything went swimmingly until she asked about the lack of odometer reading on the MO ID/OD (Identification = VIN, Odometer = mileage) inspection. I stated the bike did not have an odometer, so the inspector marked "n/a" in the odometer area. I stated "on vehicle 10 years or older they're exempt anyway right? So it doesn't really matter anyway?" She said "well, that's true. Why doesn't it have one?" This is where I shot myself in the foot. I said "it's a dirt bike". BIG MISTAKE. Apparently a "dirt bike" is legally a different vehicle class than a "motorcycle" in MO. A "dirt bike" is in the same class as a motorized bicycle, sub 50cc scooter, etc. Whereas a "motorcycle" is...well...a "motorcycle". https://dor.mo.gov/forms/4298.pdf That opened a can of worms which ended with "we can't determine at the office if it's a motorcycle or a dirtbike, so we can't proceed with the title application. You'll need to buy a form [whatever] and take to the highway patrol in Jefferson City. They will inspect the bike and determine if it's a dirt bike or a motorcycle. Bring the paperwork back once they've filled it out and we can process it for you." Fuck. That. Noise. I thought about arguing the point but they're not going to change their mind. They've decided this was too much of a PITA and they wanted to push me off on the Highway Patrol paperwork. I declined the form and left the office. I got in the truck and headed straight to the office I used last time, about 30 miles away. No wait, walked straight in, called straight to the service counter. If you read the OP, you'll see that the only thing that threw me for a curve last time was them asking about taxes. By the end of the first visit I realized they were asking about sales taxes, and I learned the fees/taxes I paid to VT were applied to my MO title application as a "taxes paid out of state". So I brought in my "temporary" registration from VT (marked up / returned VT-119 form) along with my permanent registration form from VT (which had the stickers for the plate). I thought it would be handy to show her the taxes/registration fees paid to VT to help with the MO registration / tax question. Well that kicked me right in the balls. I'll attach a photo of a "temp registration" (marked up) VT-119 below. In the green area, hidden below the license plate, the form shows both 1) registration fees paid to VT, and 2) sales tax paid to VT based on the purchase price listed in the original application. That's all well and good. HOWEVER...in the red area was the information from the person I bought the bike from. And they have a MO address. Attached File Attached File So after walking up to the counter and going through the "no, VT doesn't issue titles on vehicles 15 years or older, this is my legal VT ownership document, check in your book or manual that lists ownership document types by state" speech, she got onboard with this being a VT ownership document. But then she got hung up on the seller's MO address in the VT-119 (which I had only brought for the tax information). The lady and her office mate then went down the route of "if the seller has MO address, you HAVE to get a MO title from them". We went round and round for a few minutes as I explained we were PAST that point. I was the LEGAL OWNER of the bike at this point, and this VT registration paperwork is my legal proof of that. I explained the ONLY reason I brought the VT-119 (with the original seller's address on it) was to show the tax amount I paid VT. Eventually she pushed the VT-119 back to me and said "if it's already in your name I don't even need this". Then she got my Transfer On Death information, address, phone number, and proceeded through the title application as normal. She was very pleasant from this point forward. Honestly, I think she just said "Fuck this, we'll submit the paperwork and let Jeff City (main office) decide what to do". Which is fine with me, because I know it will result in a title being sent to me. So notes to self: 1) In the future do NOT mention the word "dirtbike" in the DOR office. It means something to them. If I have a bike with no odometer, it's just because the odometer is missing or broken. That's it. 2) Don't hand them paperwork until they have a need for it or ask a question related to it. Had I waited for her to ask about sales tax I could have whipped out the VT-119, showed her the line listed "taxes paid" on it, and we could have moved right along. Instead I brought it out too early in the process, she started looking the whole thing over, got confused, and it nearly fucked me. Ultimately I left with a completed application for title and should have a title for this 2003 KLX 400 in a week or two (based on past timeframes). I've already got packets prepared (or in the process of being prepared) for: 1) My 1974 Z50 which I've owned for 39 years 2) Dad's late 60's / early 70's johnboat which he can't find title for 3) my LT's 1953 chevy truck pulled from a field 4) LT's 1955 truck purchased from a co-worker without title 5) 1982 Honda and 1981 Yamaha scooters for a friend of mine I'll update as I run those through the process. I also think I'll just print one of these out with me and take it next time: https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-015a-Title_Requirements.pdf |
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Quoted: Yeah I'm confused because it states in the pdf above that no title will be issued to vehicles 15 years or older by calender date. I've not read the entire pdf though admittedly. That's the magic. Since VT doesn't issue titles on vehicles 15 years or older, it makes the registration document the legal ownership document. It's -because- VT is a non-titling state on vehicles 15 years or older that this can work. People thinking you "get a title from VT" are confused or haven't followed the process properly. You use the registration document VT sends you to convert to a title in your state. |
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Quoted: I don't get it, sounds mostly like just having to navigate through mostly .gov bullshit. Would love to see NFTs resolve some of this complicated mess, but .gov will surely be in the way IMO, NFT's would make the problem worse. Titles (in MO anyway) are basically paper NFT's...there is only one, that's the only one for the vehicle, and whomever is listed on the title owns the vehicle. Until the title (or NFT) is lost...or the owner dies...or it's never signed over properly...or... The VT process provides an avenue to get a vehicle "back into the system" when it would otherwise be locked out. |
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Quoted: That's the magic. Since VT doesn't issue titles on vehicles 15 years or older, it makes the registration document the legal ownership document. It's -because- VT is a non-titling state on vehicles 15 years or older that this can work. People thinking you "get a title from VT" are confused or haven't followed the process properly. You use the registration document VT sends you to convert to a title in your state. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I'm confused because it states in the pdf above that no title will be issued to vehicles 15 years or older by calender date. I've not read the entire pdf though admittedly. That's the magic. Since VT doesn't issue titles on vehicles 15 years or older, it makes the registration document the legal ownership document. It's -because- VT is a non-titling state on vehicles 15 years or older that this can work. People thinking you "get a title from VT" are confused or haven't followed the process properly. You use the registration document VT sends you to convert to a title in your state. I got you. Yeah I need to do this. Years ago a buddy started collecting parts from all over SC, NC and Georgia to build a XS650. He had an extra frame and matching motor he didn't want but it was literally in a cardboard box, no paperwork. We are both fabricators and he bullied me into building one too and I made a freaking nice bobber chopper....with no title. I drove it a little and put it up in my garage. Been sitting ever since because I don't want to have to find a titled frame and swap necks or whatever legal way of swapping everything over. Paperwork way would be way easier than grinder welder and repowdercoat. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bought with a bill of sale only, obtained valid title via Vermont process. (Page 3 of 3)
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