[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2nd Toyota Tundra Engine Recall Postponed Again Because Co. Incredibly Still Doesn’t Have Fix (Page 2 of 8)
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Quoted: According to our service guy at Toyota , his advice was to avoid them. This was backed up by two techs at Toyota I know as well as two independent mechanics I know as well. When I take our vehicles in for oil changes ( free oil changes for life deals) I look around the lot at used vehicles. There are an alarming number of the Turbo Tacos ( 2024 and newer)with low miles and almost never any of the pre-turbo trucks on the lot. Quoted: Quoted: Are the 4 banger turbos in the tacos and 4Runners holding up? According to our service guy at Toyota , his advice was to avoid them. This was backed up by two techs at Toyota I know as well as two independent mechanics I know as well. When I take our vehicles in for oil changes ( free oil changes for life deals) I look around the lot at used vehicles. There are an alarming number of the Turbo Tacos ( 2024 and newer)with low miles and almost never any of the pre-turbo trucks on the lot. |
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Quoted: Before there was warranty involved in that story. Maybe you can expand again. Indy mechanics I am friends with tell me that they are getting them just after the warranty expires ( mileage in this case, not the 3 years) and the Toyota folks I am friends with tell me they are getting a ton of them in for warranty work. |
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Quoted: Hey man, you are the one that went on a tirade about how the SMOD was the worst thing to ever happen in the automotive industry and yet here you are with a pretty good list of massive issues Toyota has had and in a thread about how the engine failures are so bad there isn't even enough motors to replace the blown ones causing a delayed recall to save face.  I guess Toyota can now play in the camp that everyone else does. Small, boosted, shitty motors. Appears only Ford can make one that is halfway decent. I'll let you go ahead and make up things that were not actually said if it makes you feel better. Quoted: Quoted: The AZ were crap at times. There were a few other interludes on 4cyl issues. Tho many like the Matrix etc ECU wasn't internal. Like the GRs that leak at the timing chain cover. I've out of pocket resealed two. Low incidence, but I've drawn the short straw twice - once below 30kmwhuch may have been contributory. It took them 3 years to fix the 1GR head gasket issues. 3VZ is notorious - so mud so Deerhurst claims every 3.0L V6 in the industry was avoided by buyers. 4GR - https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_0903_jpeg-3758059.JPG Took a bit to start piston exchanges. Then the 9 year warranty I mentioned. If you ask me it never got right. The V8s are mostly solid despite the valves springs, timing system and cam tower leaks on some. This is more a memory and expectational issue than other mfgs face. Hey man, you are the one that went on a tirade about how the SMOD was the worst thing to ever happen in the automotive industry and yet here you are with a pretty good list of massive issues Toyota has had and in a thread about how the engine failures are so bad there isn't even enough motors to replace the blown ones causing a delayed recall to save face. I guess Toyota can now play in the camp that everyone else does. Small, boosted, shitty motors. Appears only Ford can make one that is halfway decent. I'll let you go ahead and make up things that were not actually said if it makes you feel better. I think most peeps realize I'm very critical of Toyota when they earn it. I serially recount their issues - lol from memory. I don't equivocate or laud them due to my anecdotal experience. I just dissed them for my out of pocket GR timing chain cover leak fixes. Little doggy, you're barking up the wrong tree here. I've been consistent Toyotas response has been much better than Nissan traditionally - esp the VC-Turbo latest (Or GM, Ford, tho Jeep got tight on it with the Hybrid blocks) - who fight very hard. But this is obviously and issue on a number of fronts. |
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Quoted: maybe it's the covid vaccine Quoted: Quoted: That is what they are saying but I am not sure I believe that is 100% of the issue. If it was then the "fix" is easy which apparently isn't the case. It might well also be that a lot of that foreign matter is the result of the engines eating themselves. maybe it's the covid vaccine Skepticism of the information provided by a company that is subject to billions of dollars in loses is healthy IMHO but, you do you. |
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Quoted: Indy mechanics I am friends with tell me that they are getting them just after the warranty expires ( mileage in this case, not the 3 years) and the Toyota folks I am friends with tell me they are getting a ton of them in for warranty work. Quoted: Quoted: Before there was warranty involved in that story. Maybe you can expand again. Indy mechanics I am friends with tell me that they are getting them just after the warranty expires ( mileage in this case, not the 3 years) and the Toyota folks I am friends with tell me they are getting a ton of them in for warranty work. |
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Quoted: A ton of the new Tacoma T24A turbos and hybrids are coming in for internal engine issue? In the Chicago Region? - Indiana is Chicago. I've used Wood but familiar at Martin and Mohr. I'd be interested in how many other have heard this because I've seen it nowhere. I'll make a point to ask next time I'm in. “Indy” = Independent mechanics. I am in Texas. @Alacrity |
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Quoted: No kidding. @LurchAddams I'd like to hear more. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. |
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Quoted: "Indy" = Independent mechanics. I am in Texas. @Alacrity Quoted: Quoted: A ton of the new Tacoma T24A turbos and hybrids are coming in for internal engine issue? In the Chicago Region? - Indiana is Chicago. I've used Wood but familiar at Martin and Mohr. I'd be interested in how many other have heard this because I've seen it nowhere. I'll make a point to ask next time I'm in. "Indy" = Independent mechanics. I am in Texas. @Alacrity Cant imagine what they buying at Toyota when they trade in. |
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Quoted: Ahh much clarified from your serial posts on this. Big news nobody is covering. Especially the wave of early swap out Turbo Tacomas. Cant imagine what they buying at Toyota when they trade in. I am a big time Toyota loyalist. Since 2007 we have bought 4 new Toyotas and all of them are still running. The 2007 Corolla has 220,000+ miles on it and still has the original clutch. Their air aspirated engines are bullet proof if you do the basic maintenance. This is why I have good relationships with Toyota techs and our service advisor. Almost 20 years of interaction with them and not being a dick, lol. I will take the heads up they give me on a potential vehicle purchase with very serious consideration. |
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Quoted: The article says they're waiting for a "fix" from Toyota. But the only real "fix" is to replace the engine. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. Quoted: Quoted: No kidding. @LurchAddams I'd like to hear more. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. Lot of speculation and peeps who've pressed into with official docs got imperial attention. The Tundra sites had a few threads removed and sanitized. But there's good indications there if you can sort the wheat from the chaff., |
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Quoted: I own a low mileage 2021 Toyota Tundra 5.7 crew cab 4x4 and Toyota really wants it. I get an offer in the mail from one of several local Toyota dealers every week. Sometimes phone calls. The last offer I had was $5,000 more than I paid for it on trade in. My sister has a 2.7 air aspirated 2019 Tacoma 4x4. She has literally only put about 30,000 miles on it. Toyota is always wanting to buy it back from her and offer quite a bit more than she paid on a trade in. She has told them no. |
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Quoted: I am a big time Toyota loyalist. Since 2007 we have bought 4 new Toyotas and all of them are still running. The 2007 Corolla has 220,000+ miles on it and still has the original clutch. Their air aspirated engines are bullet proof if you do the basic maintenance. This is why I have good relationships with Toyota techs and our service advisor. Almost 20 years of interaction with them and not being a dick, lol. I will take the heads up they give me on a potential vehicle purchase with very serious consideration. |
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Quoted: The article says they're waiting for a "fix" from Toyota. But the only real "fix" is to replace the engine. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. Blocks are sourced "globally". Could have been anything from Teksid in Italy to someone's Mexican plant to Chyna. Most blocks get cast & initial machining outside CONUS because EPA, etc. That's where the shavings come from. Final engine assembly plant is incidental. Someone who's kept their sub to Automotive News current can tell you where the blocks were sourced from. What you all keep missing ITT is that EVERY automaker on the planet sources parts from the SAME 50 or so major suppliers! That makes all of them "human". The other thing missed is that Toyota got through at least 3 model cycles or so of tightening emissions/FE standards without having to launch much that was new - Prius played a role here, losses on it were repaid in part by avoidance of new engine launches - and they are out of practice on launches. They did what GM and Ford used to be so good at; they stuffed the same handful of engines and derivatives into everything they could, thus avoiding the complications of launches, while the US makes had to iterate every few years to wean the buying public off simple V8s. Now the lack of practice is coming home to haunt Toyota too. |
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I made a good call buying a ‘21 Tundra. Wife thought she was going to be little miss helpful doing online research for trucks when I bought. “But if you wait till ‘22, they have a new engine, with turbos”. That was a weird year to buy for sure. Hardly any trucks in stock, I had to give the dealer a deposit just to hold the next one that came in. Then I had to pass on the first couple. They weren’t even sure what they would be getting in that year. |
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Quoted: It may have been part of the issue initially but I think there is another larger one Toyota can't figure out and it's frustrating the hell out of them. Be it improper heat treating of some part/s, lube flow issues, thrust bearing problems that are bad enough to ruin parts and create metal fragments, what ever it is, it's more then some chips left in the newer and replacement engines after manufacturing. I have no doubt Toyota changed the cleaning and flushing process a long time ago and issues remain. I'm a Toyota fan, but I was skeptical from the beginning about the 'debris' explanation. It just seemed like quite the coincidence that they go to turbos and suddenly they are having bottom end failures. And I would expect Toyota, of all manufacturers, to have a better handle on the process than to allow blocks to go out with chips in them for any extended period of time. I'll keep my naturally aspirated engines. |
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Quoted: Blocks are sourced "globally". Could have been anything from Teksid in Italy to someone's Mexican plant to Chyna. Most blocks get cast & initial machining outside CONUS because EPA, etc. That's where the shavings come from. Final engine assembly plant is incidental. Someone who's kept their sub to Automotive News current can tell you where the blocks were sourced from. What you all keep missing ITT is that EVERY automaker on the planet sources parts from the SAME 50 or so major suppliers! That makes all of them "human". The other thing missed is that Toyota got through at least 3 model cycles or so of tightening emissions/FE standards without having to launch much that was new - Prius played a role here, losses on it were repaid in part by avoidance of new engine launches - and they are out of practice on launches. They did what GM and Ford used to be so good at; they stuffed the same handful of engines and derivatives into everything they could, thus avoiding the complications of launches, while the US makes had to iterate every few years to wean the buying public off simple V8s. Now the lack of practice is coming home to haunt Toyota too. The 573 notes debris. The expanded recall as well. (Not the first - the Nexteer Mustang EPAS inverted polarity issue had 3 or 4 bites at the apple to complete) we've seen the debris in inventory short blocks. But as with a few other prior remedies, it may be a more complex problem. The distribution of defects don't pattern out well for certain causes tho. I'm sure that's complicating. Just odd. Nobody gets, or really should want, to see the sausage being made. |
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Quoted:The problem is a manufacturing process issue, not the design of the engine. They left chips from machining in a lot of blocks and later they dislodge and eat the engine. They've had years now to figure out how to make an engine that doesn't leave 'chips' in it during the manufacturing process. It's eating bearings because of a poor design. Jay |
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I like the grill on those way more than the new ones. |
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Quoted: What do you think of the 5.7 in the last gen other than it being a gas hog and the truck being outdated? Quoted: Quoted: The AZ were crap at times. There were a few other interludes on 4cyl issues. Tho many like the Matrix etc ECU wasn't internal. Like the GRs that leak at the timing chain cover. I've out of pocket resealed two. Low incidence, but I've drawn the short straw twice - once below 30kmwhuch may have been contributory. It took them 3 years to fix the 1GR head gasket issues. 3VZ is notorious - so mud so Deerhurst claims every 3.0L V6 in the industry was avoided by buyers. 4GR - https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_0903_jpeg-3758059.JPG Took a bit to start piston exchanges. Then the 9 year warranty I mentioned. If you ask me it never got right. The V8s are mostly solid despite the valves springs, timing system and cam tower leaks on some. This is more a memory and expectational issue than other mfgs face. What do you think of the 5.7 in the last gen other than it being a gas hog and the truck being outdated? My dad has a 2013 that is going strong and my 2021 (the last year) is great. |
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Quoted: The article says they're waiting for a "fix" from Toyota. But the only real "fix" is to replace the engine. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. Quoted: Quoted: No kidding. @LurchAddams I'd like to hear more. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. The article never really stated that toyota introduced a fix that wasn't really a fix. Everyone knew the problem wasn't from debris from the manufacturing process, it was from oil starvation. Hyundai said the same thing with their 10-year debacle. It appeases the NHTSA. 2026+ engine allegedly not only have a more robust main bearing, they also have reinforced main bearing housing and looser oil journals, and larger galleries. This change in the engine hasn't been introduced into the recall. I'm betting toyota is waiting to see if the '22-'24 tundras involved in the recall show a low enough further incident (re-incident?) rate to end the recall without replacing the engine yet again. |
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Quoted: Ahh much clarified from your serial posts on this. Big news nobody is covering. Especially the wave of early swap out Turbo Tacomas. Cant imagine what they buying at Toyota when they trade in. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A ton of the new Tacoma T24A turbos and hybrids are coming in for internal engine issue? In the Chicago Region? - Indiana is Chicago. I've used Wood but familiar at Martin and Mohr. I'd be interested in how many other have heard this because I've seen it nowhere. I'll make a point to ask next time I'm in. "Indy" = Independent mechanics. I am in Texas. @Alacrity Cant imagine what they buying at Toyota when they trade in. Something without an early self destruction device built in? 
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Quoted: The article never really stated that toyota introduced a fix that wasn't really a fix. Everyone knew the problem wasn't from debris from the manufacturing process, it was from oil starvation. Hyundai said the same thing with their 10-year debacle. It appeases the NHTSA. 2026+ engine allegedly not only have a more robust main bearing, they also have reinforced main bearing housing and looser oil journals, and larger galleries. This change in the engine hasn't been introduced into the recall. I'm betting toyota is waiting to see if the '22-'24 tundras involved in the recall show a low enough further incident (re-incident?) rate to end the recall without replacing the engine yet again. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No kidding. @LurchAddams I'd like to hear more. Metal shavings/trash left in the engine causes permanent damage. Hyundai had a similar problem a few years ago. IIRC, the troubled Toyota and Hyundai engines were made in Alabama plants. The article never really stated that toyota introduced a fix that wasn't really a fix. Everyone knew the problem wasn't from debris from the manufacturing process, it was from oil starvation. Hyundai said the same thing with their 10-year debacle. It appeases the NHTSA. 2026+ engine allegedly not only have a more robust main bearing, they also have reinforced main bearing housing and looser oil journals, and larger galleries. This change in the engine hasn't been introduced into the recall. I'm betting toyota is waiting to see if the '22-'24 tundras involved in the recall show a low enough further incident (re-incident?) rate to end the recall without replacing the engine yet again. Variable displacement oil pressure pumps have never been a good idea to me and really only came about due to fuel efficiency demands. I have to wonder if toyota tossed the 3.4 variable displacement one and tossed in a normal one to see if anything changed. |
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Quoted: Isn't the Ford the one Toyota designed for them? Quoted: Quoted: Hey man, you are the one that went on a tirade about how the SMOD was the worst thing to ever happen in the automotive industry and yet here you are with a pretty good list of massive issues Toyota has had and in a thread about how the engine failures are so bad there isn't even enough motors to replace the blown ones causing a delayed recall to save face. I guess Toyota can now play in the camp that everyone else does. Small, boosted, shitty motors. Appears only Ford can make one that is halfway decent. I'll let you go ahead and make up things that were not actually said if it makes you feel better. Isn't the Ford the one Toyota designed for them? But the 2.7 EB are very good engines - especially 2GEN - despite the kvetching about turbos, wet belts, plastic oil pans, etc, |
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Quoted: Teardown of a 38k mile Tundra V35A that grenaded, "debris" unlikely  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL4tIHf_9i8 |
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Quoted: I recently could have bought a new 4Runner but that would have meant a 4 cylinder turbo, so I bought a very low mileage '22 with the ol' reliable 6 cylinder instead. Market prices on used 5th gen 4Runner indicate I am not alone. 5th gen is best gen. Just rolled over 158k. 
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Quoted: The EcoNanos were developed with FEV. Another thing most peeps don't realize is outside consultancy is a thing. Some from recognizable names like Lotus and Porsche, and some like Mahle (who did much with the new Jeep Hurricane 4), BluE Nexus (basically a Toyota Hybrid consortium that Jeep used for new Cherokee ), Ricardo, AVL - mfgs in house peeps don't do it all. There's talent tiers tho, and that ps important. But the 2.7 EB are very good engines - especially 2GEN - despite the kvetching about turbos, wet belts, plastic oil pans, etc, Correct me if I'm not wrong but the 2.7Eco is actually the most reliable engine in the 150 line. |
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Quoted: Question. With the issues we see in the new Tundra had Nissan not cancelled the Titan would they have seen a significant increase in sales right now? Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: Something without an early self destruction device built in? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A ton of the new Tacoma T24A turbos and hybrids are coming in for internal engine issue? In the Chicago Region? - Indiana is Chicago. I've used Wood but familiar at Martin and Mohr. I'd be interested in how many other have heard this because I've seen it nowhere. I'll make a point to ask next time I'm in. "Indy" = Independent mechanics. I am in Texas. @Alacrity Cant imagine what they buying at Toyota when they trade in. Something without an early self destruction device built in? But the Tacos didn't get the V35A. So if trading - buying Grand Highlanders? Corollas? I'd expect those early Turbo Taco trades outs (few more than 2 years old ) to be GM, Ford, Nissan conquest sales. Ending up on those lots. Not back at Toyota - where the only other trucks have the same engine - or worse Tundra. Like when peeps tell us Dealers are awash with these shitty turbo Tacomas as an indication nobody want them. They forget there's actual industry measures and we don't need to rely on local visuals. Tacoma has hovered around 23 day inventory since the launch feeding frenzy and trickle in sub sized. It's been straight record quarters for Tacoma. Super odd to find that with Texas ownership collapsing. Ranger has been recent 100 days plus tho Colorado have been close to Taco. Attached File Not the pattern you'd expect with horrible troubles franchise guys wave you off from. A long time ago a Toyota tech told me he'd never own a Toyota "cos everyone mother fucking one of these that comes in is broke as fuck" Stopped paying much attention to franchise techs after that. Tho I make exceptions for AMD (Car Care Nut), Lloyd Koppas (one of Lexus first Corp guys) and Little Pony. But they've demonstrated serial good judgment. |
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I offloaded my Sequoia because I was nervous, and still am, that a fix either wont include my 2024, or wouldn’t actually fix the issue. Toyota fucked the dog on this engine and continues to screwup the fix. They’ve recalled and replaced engines that are still suspect of being bad. So, do they recall the recalled engines? And, if mine fails and is outside of the recall, a mechanic is going to replace the short block? Yeah, fuck that. I was loyal to Toyota for 24-years. I now drive a Raptor. |