|
Quoted:
Quoted:
fail
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah I think SURBU would have stopped making all those cool short shotguns out of pistol grip pumps and paying the $5 to do it also... ( That is, if what you are saying is true, but I doubt it.  read the specs in the first post, the overall length has to be at least 26 " Just measured a Mossberg 500 Pistol grip shotgun... 26 inches would make it so I could cut a whole 1 inch off the barrel!!!!!!!   I think I see where you're going with this - a shotgun is a device firing fixed ammunition, etc., designed to be fired from the shoulder, and an SBS is a device made from a shotgun. A Mossberg Cruiser was not designed to be fired from the shoulder and therefore can not be a shotgun and therefore can not be an SBS. It isn't a revolver, and a pistol is designed to be fired from one hand, so it isn't a pistol. It becomes a firearm. I'm not sure where the 26" requirement comes from, but I haven't read the whole stinking CFR in a long time, and I haven't got enough Advil to try it again tonight. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I doubt it. I'll tell you what I will donate $100.00 to this site if I am wrong If you're wrong you do the same. Bet? A bet against Kieth_J with regards to knowledge? Aw shit, I'm gettin popcorn for this I am an 07 FFL/SOT who has spent 2 days on the phone and many faxes between us and the Tech branch of the ATF This is not speculation or fantasy, it's real and happening IT'S A TRAP! The ATF has done this before to make a point. I'm sure they are telling you it is legal but when they haul you to court their story will change. Remember the Akins stocks for 10-22's and SKS's not to mention all the times they did this with machine guns then just had the technical branch write a letter and bam back to illegal and your out big bucks. I commend you for trying because it is the only way we get our rights back, a little bit at a time but I still think they are setting you up. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW, for mathematical sake, how long is an 870 receiver? How long is the pistol grip? I don't think the receiver of an 870+pistol grip = 12" or more. Does it? Meaning a 14.25" barrel might still be an issue for OAL. Certainly a 12" barrel would be bad. I was going to tell you the key to this but you called me a drama llama so I think I won't LOL Permanently affixed to a rifle, like under the hand-guard, thus making the entire contraption over 26" OAL? |
|
Quoted:
And what happens if the ATF decides later it IS NFA after all and all existing owners have to register, sell or destroy them or be instant felons?
I somehow knew before clicking on this thread it would be an OAL trick. ATF "opinions" from the tech branch are just "opinions" anyway. There's been plenty of occasions where two people have asked ATF Tech Branch the same question and gotten contradictory responses back. Yes, it would result in a cool shotgun, but you KNOW the ATF is reading this and thinking of a way to contort their definitions to call it illegal. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And what happens if the ATF decides later it IS NFA after all and all existing owners have to register, sell or destroy them or be instant felons?
I somehow knew before clicking on this thread it would be an OAL trick. ATF "opinions" from the tech branch are just "opinions" anyway. There's been plenty of occasions where two people have asked ATF Tech Branch the same question and gotten contradictory responses back. Yes, it would result in a cool shotgun, but you KNOW the ATF is reading this and thinking of a way to contort their definitions to call it illegal. No the "opinions" from the tech branch are as good as law when they want them to be but when we want them to be they aren't worth shit. Isn't it nice to live in a country at the will of the ruling class.
|
|
Quoted: I'm not sure where the 26" requirement comes from The bATFe. With a m1919 they say you can chop the barrel to any length, as long as the OAL is greater than 26" From what I have been able to deduce from their logic (which is saying something) they seem to have decided that 26" is the length you have to have to not be "capable of being concealed on a person" and be in AOW land. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does this mean I can get a KAC masterkey?! interesting..... There is a a requirement that is must still have an overall length from the furthest point of the pistol grip to the end of the barrel of 26 inches. (26 1/4 to be safe)
It must be smooth bore too. This is not my opinion, this is fact and I will prove this in a couple of days , give or take a week or two. Now if you have a 14 1/2 inch barrel and a standard pistol grip you will be under the mandated 26 inch rule. so all you need to do is have the pistol grip function as the VFG as well
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: wrong, nothing to do with it, the judge is a pistol, it has a rifled barreli have heard that the pistol grip has to be integral to the receiver (all one piece) thus, it is no different from say, the *forgive me father* Judge revolver ETA - for it to be considered a smoothbore handgun vs. an sbs ...and it is UNDER the 1/2" bore rule...this will be interesting to see what happens with a 12 ga. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW, for mathematical sake, how long is an 870 receiver? How long is the pistol grip? I don't think the receiver of an 870+pistol grip = 12" or more. Does it? Meaning a 14.25" barrel might still be an issue for OAL. Certainly a 12" barrel would be bad. I was going to tell you the key to this but you called me a drama llama so I think I won't LOL Permanently affixed to a rifle, like under the hand-guard, thus making the entire contraption over 26" OAL? If you permanently attach it to a rifle then it would become a short barreled shotgun because it would then have a stock |
|
i've had 07 FFLs swear to God himself that my M16 full auto weight BCG for my SBR was a felony waiting to happen..
I've seen tech branch department letters that "authorize" the person they address to do funky shit that would never fly if challenged your dog, not miine.. |
|
Quoted:
So what utility would such a firearm have, to be prefered ,to an 18" barreled shotgun that's 26" long ??? I do not question the usefullness of short shotguns, but if you retain a 26" oal, what is the qoal here? (assuming the butstock is not retained) home defense. at 7 yards (at the absolute maximum in a long fucking hallway) you can pointshoot buckshot. much easier to wield than a stocked shotgun with an 18" barrel. |
| So the persuader is sold with an 18.5 or 20 inch barrel... Why are they not out there rocking the 14.5s if theyre legal to sell with no form? The way the NFA act is worded as I understand is that a sawed off (pistol grip) shotgun has to have a barrel length no shorter than 18" AND an overall length of at least 26". That's what I was lead to believe with my research trying to get the shortest PG shotgun I could. |
|
Quoted:
So the persuader is sold with an 18.5 or 20 inch barrel... Why are they not out there rocking the 14.5s if theyre legal to sell with no form? The way the NFA act is worded as I understand is that a sawed off (pistol grip) shotgun has to have a barrel length no shorter than 18" AND an overall length of at least 26". That's what I was lead to believe with my research trying to get the shortest PG shotgun I could. I think the idea is the ATF kinda painted themselves into a corner by defining pistol gripped shotguns as "firearms" instead of shotguns. Since it's a "firearm", the rules change. |
