F-16 Makes Emergency Landing - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - F-16 Makes Emergency Landing

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:06:12 PM EDT

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/f16_emergency_landing_102209

F-16 Makes Emergency Landing Northwest of Phoenix

Updated: Thursday, 22 Oct 2009, 2:06 PM MDT
Published : Thursday, 22 Oct 2009, 1:44 PM MDT

WICKENBURG, Ariz. - A U.S. Air Force spokesman says an F-16 fighter was forced to make an emergency landing at a municipal airport northwest of Phoenix on Thursday after its engine failed.

Luke Air Force Base spokesman Justin Oakes says the two-person crew of the jet were unhurt after what he termed a "hard landing" at the Wickenburg Municipal Airport about 40 miles northwest of Phoenix. The Air Force base in the Phoenix suburb of Glendale is the world's largest F-16 training base.

More News »

Oakes says the jet came in short of the runway but damage to the aircraft hasn't yet been determined. A cause of the engine failure will be investigated.

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:10:41 PM EDT

[#1]

not a good day for F-16's today

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:10:50 PM EDT

[#2]

I am glad that the crew is okay, planes can be replaced.

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:19:47 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
not a good day for F-16's today

They shut down all of northbound I-15 to look for that jetisoned fuel cell at Hill AFB. My gf's gonna have fun at work tomorrow.

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:20:58 PM EDT

[#4]

IB Lockmart Lawn Dart

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:22:49 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
not a good day for F-16's today

They shut down all of northbound I-15 to look for that jetisoned fuel cell at Hill AFB. My gf's gonna have fun at work tomorrow.

and another incident on Saturday

F-16 Fuel Tank Still Missing

Burlington, Vermont - October 17, 2009

The U.S. Coast Guard failed to find a fuel tank that was dropped into Lake Champlain.

A Vermont Air National Guard pilot had to jettison two fuel tanks into the lake Friday after his F-16 experienced power irregularities.

The Coast Guard recovered one of the tanks near Willsboro Point, New York. The other is thought to be submerged. A very small oil sheen was spotted on the water. The Environmental Protection Agency will continue to search.

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:24:43 PM EDT

[#6]

Even looks like it's mostly in one piece! Who knows what went wrong, but flyboy got 'er on the ground with the canopy still attached. From the looks of things that was no mean feat.

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:27:25 PM EDT

[#7]

Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

Posted: 10/22/2009 8:55:17 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

Might have been mostly Hollywood BS, but HBO did a movie about F16 pilots dying due to design problems in the aircraft. Been a long time, but one's wife sued the manufacturer, won a ton of money, and IIRC lost it back when the manufacturer appealed. If thos stories were true, could these problems be related?

Posted: 10/22/2009 9:02:58 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:12:21 AM EDT

[#10]

bump for day crew

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:16:58 AM EDT

[#11]

Hmm, looks re-usable.

Nice.

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:26:15 AM EDT

[#12]

Damn.

Does that make three now in just a few days?

I wonder if there's a common cause in all of them.

I also wonder if we will see a fleet wide grounding of them until they sort it out.

-K

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:32:38 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

Might have been mostly Hollywood BS, but HBO did a movie about F16 pilots dying due to design problems in the aircraft. Been a long time, but one's wife sued the manufacturer, won a ton of money, and IIRC lost it back when the manufacturer appealed. If thos stories were true, could these problems be related?

That was wire bundling chafing allegedly causing control and instrumentation problems, not engine problems. The F-16 is a good airplane but if you've only got one engine and you lose an engine, you're down to 0% available thrust.

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:33:53 AM EDT

[#14]

video back in the dau on hbo was for wiring under stress and failing iirc

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:34:13 AM EDT

[#15]

Looks like they walked away, good landing.

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:39:36 AM EDT

[#16]

The F-16, the most crashed aircraft still in production...

its a 2 seater for training too, someone might not get the job after this one.

Shoulda pushed the stick forward and pulled the yellow handle...

Posted: 10/23/2009 6:51:40 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

.

Posted: 10/23/2009 7:18:57 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Posted: 10/23/2009 9:24:23 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Can you explain?

-K

Posted: 10/23/2009 9:33:00 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

They're single engine fighters, they should declare an emergency as soon as they leave the ground.

ETA: We've crashed about 250 of the piles of shit, thus far. The total keeps climbing though...

Posted: 10/23/2009 9:44:00 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Can you explain?
-K

OST

Posted: 10/23/2009 9:48:56 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.
Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Can you explain?
-K

The F-16 actually has an EPU (emergency power unit) which is powered by hydrazine, which is a highly toxic substance normally used as rocket fuel. The U-2 uses hydrazine to power the Emergency Start System. I was on our hydrazine response team so I got some training in the hazards of hydrazine. To answer the previous question I stole this from F16.net:

1 Why is it there? Isn't there a Ram Air Turbine to provide electrical power in the event of an engine or generator failure?

It's there for the stated name - An emergency and it provides power. No
there is not a RAM air turbine to provide electrical power.

How does it work?

It provides power in modes. Bleed Air (that is it is augmented by
bleed air from the engine) Or Hydrazine in this mode it uses the
Hydrazine (H-70) from the tank located in the right strake, there is a
process that uses nitrogen to turn the liquid H-70 into a gas and turn
the turbine as the gas is expelled out the right lower strake. In the
Bleed air mode the operation of the EPU is greatly extened, however if
hydraulic pressure falls below a predetermined pressure the H-70 will
begin to flow at greater amounts and provide the needed hydraulic and
electrical power in order to fly the jet. In the H-70 only mode you
have approximatly 10 minutes of operation from the EPU.

What is meant by "firing" the EPU and how is it pinned safe? Is it similar to an ejection seat in that way?

Firing the EPU is accomplish by two means, manually and
automaticly. Manuall selection is done by the pilot, and this activates
the H-70 only mode and can be terminated manually as well, operation
time in this mode is the same as automatic H-70 mode. Automatic H-70
mode is actuated by loss of both hydraulic systems pressure falling
below a predetermined pressure, or loss of electrical power. The EPU is
safed with a saftey pin on the righ side of the inlet, it's particular
location depends on what block you are refering to.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1056-start-0.html

Posted: 10/23/2009 9:53:08 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.

Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"

The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.

http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Can you explain?

-K

Not a crew chief, but hydrazine is effectively rocket fuel in a jet aircraft application. Meant to get you out of a shit situation but not very far out. The crew chiefs I used to talk to said looking at it incorrectly would give you cancer...

so I'd imagine its pretty damn toxic.

Posted: 10/23/2009 10:53:12 AM EDT

[#24]

During a wheels-up "landing", that air intake makes a dandy FOD scoop!!!

Hydrazine, ejection seats, & the ability to suck the (s)Crew(ed) Chief in the engine are reasons why I'd rather work on My beloved Herky-Girls.

The Ol' Crew Chief

Posted: 10/23/2009 10:57:27 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Hmm, looks re-usable.

Nice.

Hell Ill take it! Little paint, some wax. bit of bondo and bam youre in business.

Posted: 10/23/2009 11:05:59 AM EDT

[#26]

About 15 years ago, there was an F16 which dead sticked into SAT. It was heading north, about 15 NM from SAT when it flamed out and pilot could not restart. He shucked external stores, one of which was a training round which fell through the roof of a house, into the attached garage

.

He managed to execute a wheels down landing at SAT (commercial airport) with no damage.

Commercial craft have more benign EPUs, normally ram air turbines which add a bit of drag but are sufficient for minimal control. Hydrazine is nasty stuff. The F16 cannot take such additional drag so the use of an EPU is worth the hazard.

Posted: 10/23/2009 11:22:53 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

Might have been mostly Hollywood BS, but HBO did a movie about F16 pilots dying due to design problems in the aircraft. Been a long time, but one's wife sued the manufacturer, won a ton of money, and IIRC lost it back when the manufacturer appealed. If thos stories were true, could these problems be related?

Not a related story. The original issue was with chaffed Kapton wiring used for the Flight Director, Avionics, etc., causing flight instrument errors. We dug an F-16 out of a mountain in Japan. Pilot had been in the clouds, and impacted the mountain - upside down.

Any other issues have been long resolved. This must be a new issue.

Posted: 10/23/2009 11:25:50 AM EDT

[#28]

Interesting. Thanks for the answers!

-K

Posted: 10/25/2009 12:18:33 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm impressed. Dead-stick in a ludicrously high wing-loading, artificial stability, tactical aircraft.
Cojones.

Not totally "Dead"
The Viper has an "Oh Shit" Mode...... but it involves some pretty nasty shit.
http://www.baha.be/webpages/navigator/news/Special%20Features/rocourt%202006/f16a_fa048_hydrasine_verw_e.jpg.

Hydrazine; ued to power the APU.

Can you explain?
-K

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Hydrazine

Posted: 10/25/2009 12:24:46 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is this the third f-16 with engine issues?

Might have been mostly Hollywood BS, but HBO did a movie about F16 pilots dying due to design problems in the aircraft. Been a long time, but one's wife sued the manufacturer, won a ton of money, and IIRC lost it back when the manufacturer appealed. If thos stories were true, could these problems be related?

If I remember correctly, didn't that have to do with wire bundles fraying/chaffing at bends and causing problems?

ETA:

Someone beat me to it.

Posted: 10/25/2009 6:44:26 PM EDT

[#31]

Wonder why the landed gear up, runway too short to stop ?

There is an emergency pneumatic gear extension system. At the worst gear down and running off end of runway ( not going too fast ) the nose gear would collapse.

Posted: 10/25/2009 7:51:28 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Wonder why the landed gear up, runway too short to stop ?

There is an emergency pneumatic gear extension system. At the worst gear down and running off end of runway ( not going too fast ) the nose gear would collapse.

Some of those fields around Luke are fairly soft (i.e. plowed). He probably figured the field was like near Luke and that he would bury the nose gear as soon as he hit.

Looks like pilot walked away = good landing.

My parents live near Luke. When visiting them, I watch those F-16's flyover all day long. I love it!

Posted: 10/25/2009 7:57:36 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wonder why the landed gear up, runway too short to stop ?

There is an emergency pneumatic gear extension system. At the worst gear down and running off end of runway ( not going too fast ) the nose gear would collapse.

Some of those fields around Luke are fairly soft (i.e. plowed). He probably figured the field was like near Luke and that he would bury the nose gear as soon as he hit.

Looks like pilot walked away = good landing.

My parents live near Luke. When visiting them, I watch those F-16's flyover all day long. I love it!

Used to be awesome there. I spent 9 years at luke. F16s and F15's roaring intot the sky all day and night.