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Posted: 12/2/2004 4:08:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2004 4:09:35 AM EDT by glockguy40]
December 2, 2004
Mass. Gets Electronic Gun Fingerprinting
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 3:06 a.m. ET

article
BOSTON (AP) -- With a quick electronic scan of a fingerprint, gun shop owners in Massachusetts will know immediately if a customer is eligible to buy a weapon, using a system that officials say is the first of its kind in the nation.

The Massachusetts Instant Record Check System, developed over the past six years with nearly $7 million in technology grant money, will be in place in all police departments and gun shops across the state by next summer. It is currently operating in three shops and about 140 police departments.

The system gives police and gun-shop owners instant access to updated information about arrest warrants and restraining orders which was not readily accessible under the old paperwork-intensive system.

``It represents a real quantum leap in public-safety information-technology applications,'' said Public Safety Secretary Ed Flynn, who planned to unveil the new system Wednesday at the Four Seasons Firearms shop in Woburn.

``This enables us to make sure that the only people bearing arms in the commonwealth have the right to bear arms,'' he said.

With the system, Massachusetts becomes the first state in the nation with a biometric-based firearms license and sales application, Flynn said. Biometrics are physical identifiers, such as facial photographs and fingerprints.

Gun owners have long complained that the process of getting a license is cumbersome and time-consuming, often taking weeks or months.

Under the old system, individual police departments are the licensing authority. They have to take a fingerprint manually and paste a photograph onto a gun license.

Under the new system, local police will still be the licensing authority, but fingerprints and photographs will be taken electronically and stored in the statewide system. The license will be produced by the state's Criminal History Systems Board and fit into a wallet, much like a driver's license.

Philip Mahoney, police chief in Woburn, one of the first communities in the state to test the system, said one of the biggest benefits is knowing immediately if a person licensed through that city has become ineligible. Under the old system, a person's criminal history would only be updated after the license expired, or if police happened to learn of an arrest.

``Until he came in for renewal, we would not have had any knowledge of that,'' Mahoney said. ``Now it would be an automatic suspension.''

That would also show up at a gun shop. For example, if a restraining order is issued at midnight against someone with a gun license, that license record would be updated. If that person tried to buy a weapon the next day, he would be denied.

It also eliminates paperwork for gun-shop owners, who now have to pay 50 cents per form per gun, and alert the state of each sale.

``You hit the button. Before the customer leaves the store, the state knows they purchased that firearm,'' said Carl Ingrao, owner of Four Seasons Firearms in Woburn.

The new electronic system is in addition to a federal instant check that is conducted by telephone before a weapon sale is completed. The state is working with federal authorities to further streamline that process.

Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League, said the state had not involved gun owners in the development of the technology. But he was looking forward to Flynn's demonstration and hopeful the system would cut down on the wait and paperwork for licensing.

``We don't support licensing anyway, but it's a fact of life here in Massachusetts,'' Wallace said, ``and if you're going to mandate it, you better provide it.''
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:11:29 AM EDT

Thank god I escaped two years
ago. They can keep their liberal
utopia...
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:11:30 AM EDT
GATTACA.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:15:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
They can keep their liberal
utopia...

+1
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:45:22 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:49:20 AM EDT
Lived in Boston for 6 months - felt like i was escaping the bowels of Liberal HELL when I hit 95 South back to NC...hooorah
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:25:51 AM EDT
Lived in Mass for 13 years. I feel sorry for those who stay.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:27:02 AM EDT
Simple, move to a free state....that's what everyone tells me.

Only losers stay and fight for what they believe in.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:33:15 AM EDT
Part of me is appalled, but part of me knows this will drive some liberal types mad!

[DU]OMGWTF??!!! The right wing nuts can walk into the death-dealer and pick up any evil, baby/bunny killing, Al Pacino-Gun-From-Heat, fully automatic, assault weapon they want. Then just put their finger on a pad, swipe their debit card, and walk right out!!! It will be chaos and just like the old west!!!! Let's riot in the streets!!!![/DU]
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:37:18 AM EDT
And I'm sure they passed it saying that it would only be used to make sure that criminals didn't buy guns and the data would be destroyed after a certain amount of time.


This is why gun owners are so freaking leery of supporting these kinds of measures. They are ALWAYS abused by the government.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:38:56 AM EDT
oh brother, i have a sick feeling that this will be on its way to new jersey soon.

7 to 10 to go and i not only retire but move south where it is warmer and free.

be well
maxwell
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:47:49 AM EDT
I grew up there but moved about 7-8 yrs ago.

I left before it go too nutty I guess. I had an FID at 15 and a LTC all lawful purposes at 19 or 20.

I was shocked to see and hear how the new LTC's were and having certain pistol rules and all that crap.

Im meeting a bud at a local pit/range here at 12. We will both have our M4geries and glocks and he has a sig pro. The only thing I have to worry about is not getting a ticket on the way there or back.

Life is too short, Move somewhere where you can enjoy it.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 7:16:22 AM EDT
They have it here in Maryland. It's expensive and does not good at all. Reason number 9,998 to hate Democrats.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 7:19:32 AM EDT
great googly moogly...


Something like that would be OK with me.... If EVERYONE had to have their thumbprint on file, not just gun buyers, and if there was no record of purchases made by people.

Even then... it's still a little too 'big brother'...
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 8:51:42 AM EDT
Coming to a gun store near you.

All in the name of:

Safety
National Security
The Children
Stopping Gun Violence

Pick one.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 8:54:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dinkydow:
GATTACA.



+1

You can bet it will be here in MD before long.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 8:57:25 AM EDT
what if someone from Mass crosses the border into a free state?

Are they not allowed to buy firearms outside of Mass?
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 9:00:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stillie:
Part of me is appalled, but part of me knows this will drive some liberal types mad!

[DU]OMGWTF??!!! The right wing nuts can walk into the death-dealer and pick up any evil, baby/bunny killing, Al Pacino-Gun-From-Heat, fully automatic, assault weapon they want. Then just put their finger on a pad, swipe their debit card, and walk right out!!! It will be chaos and just like the old west!!!! Let's riot in the streets!!!![/DU]




No they can't. mass gun list is very limited. Currently they can't buy glocks - only the older ones.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 9:01:37 AM EDT
Wow, and to think, it's gone THIS far and our brothers in MA HAVN'T taken up arms yet?

HINT: "Boston Tea Party".

Incrementalism: Kicking Law Abiding American asses since <Insert date for YOUR state here>.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 9:04:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin:
what if someone from Mass crosses the border into a free state?

Are they not allowed to buy firearms outside of Mass?



The guns Mass. residents can buy are very limited. And no, they must buy firearms in their state. Well, they can buy a firearm in another state but an FFL must send it to an instate FFL where they will then still need to do the fingerprint id. I was in my local trading post in maine, and a couple wanted to buy a glock. Not only could they not buy the glock (because it was on the list of Mass. Banned guns) but if they bought the weapon they could not walk out with it - it had to be sent to a mass. ffl.

Mass is teh sux
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:06:30 AM EDT
For long guns we can still buy outside the state , we have 7 days to register the weapon with the state Via an FA-10 form. as ANY state you cannot buy a pistol in another state it must be transfered.
(That is FEDERAL Law.) But in the case cited above if the weapon is not on the 2 mass approved lists it will not be transferred. Get it right folks. If they tie this to the requirements with the feds (instant check)
then it at least cuts one agency out of the loop. and If this allows the license renewals to happen faster that is a good thing too.

Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:18:58 AM EDT
Thankfully I left MA in October. Those that say "Stay and fight" need to take a look at the MA government. The Republican governor would be a liberal Democrat in most states, the Senate and House are both controlled by massive leftist Democrat majorities, and the majority of citizens dislike guns and gun owners. It is a lost cause.

Boston, nice place to visit, glad I no longer live there.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:24:18 AM EDT
I have not, nor will I ever, reside in a state where I must request permission to own a firearm. MA == Stepford.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:28:35 AM EDT
It's an especially rich and sad irony that Massachusetts was the home of the American revolution.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:31:36 AM EDT

You hit the button. Before the customer leaves the store, the state knows they purchased that firearm.
Federal or sate Gov't? Isn't this fingerprint thing a NICS simplification? Isn't the NICS supposed to NOT be a registry? Am I horribly confused? Does anyone else find that statement Orwellian?



This will be a nationwide thing within a few years.


I can't wait to get out of this fucking state.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 12:16:55 PM EDT
I read about this the other day; glad I left, unhappy about having to move back for a (hopefully) short stint. I don't have any $$ to pick up anything new, the only plus is that my truck insurance will be half of what it was in NH.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 12:25:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 12:26:56 PM EDT
What is it that happened in every nation in the world that required its people to register their weapons? Oh yeah, confiscation. I remember now.

Anyone remember the scene in Red Dawn where they went to gunstores and police departments to find out who owned guns and then killed them?



If the government wants to find out what kind of guns I'm buying, they can politely ask me. They should keep in mind though that when it comes to information requests, I follow the same policy they do: All information is given on a need-to-know basis. And nobody needs to know.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 12:57:19 PM EDT
It is a STATE registry. we have had it here in Mass since 1968 (I think thats when it started)
All firearms in state are supposed to be registered. Once the system is in place it should preempt the federal system in mass so no Nics.

Do the Mass firearms laws suck? Of course they do but unfortunetly I have Family obligations that are part of being a man and cannot leave at this time. So I obey the laws until they become unbearable then either sell all the guns or leave the state, hopefully I will be leaving in the next 5 years or so.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 1:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wildweasel:
It is a STATE registry. we have had it here in Mass since 1968 (I think thats when it started)
All firearms in state are supposed to be registered. Once the system is in place it should preempt the federal system in mass so no Nics.

Do the Mass firearms laws suck? Of course they do but unfortunetly I have Family obligations that are part of being a man and cannot leave at this time. So I obey the laws until they become unbearable then either sell all the guns or leave the state, hopefully I will be leaving in the next 5 years or so.


I am in the same boat brother. I want out now and I'm in the market for a house so I hope I can get my sorry ass into VT or NH ASAP!!!
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 1:52:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2004 1:53:10 PM EDT by SDavid]

Originally Posted By Wildweasel:

All firearms in state are supposed to be registered.



Not entirely true; new purchases and F2F transfers need to registered as a "Transfer of Ownership." Granted it becomes that same thing, however any purchases prior to moving into MA need not be registered.



Once the system is in place it should preempt the federal system in mass so no Nics.




One can only hope.

edit for board code
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 2:33:00 PM EDT
$7Mil? Don't ya think they could find something better and more useful to spend all that money on than useless crap like "gun control"? Didn't Canada, or some LE branch admit that all the money they spent on "gun control" was a waste?
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:02:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
and a couple wanted to buy a glock. Not only could they not buy the glock (because it was on the list of Mass. Banned guns) but if they bought the weapon they could not walk out with it - it had to be sent to a mass. ffl.

Mass is teh sux



Why are glocks banned in MA? Please excuse my free-stater ignorance. Why they would ban them is beyond me.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:07:45 PM EDT
God knows they couldn't fund my back pay! (3 year contract that expired in july and they have only funded the last 6 months of it. ) Yes I am an evil State worker. other than the fact I likly saved the state 10 times what I made last year in preventing lost grants due to missed deadlines by keeping the depts computer network/computers humming right along....
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:10:50 PM EDT
Damn, they started this at Four Seasons? That's my favorite gun shop! At least im leaving this liberal utopia in a few months
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 4:52:33 PM EDT
I moved out of that lib shithole 16 years ago. Back then all you needed was a carry permit for pistols and ARs were ok. But there were the big "warning" signs at the borders that you got 1 year in jail for exercising your constitutional rights without the commonwealths approval....

Of course now Colorado is turning into a Kalifornistan lib refuge..... looks like time to move again soon.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:03:35 PM EDT
For all that WASTED effort and technology, criminals will still obtain most of their firearms the same way they always have...by illegal methods or by methods that are below the radar. Just buy them on the street.

Those liberal assheads just don't get it, do they?


CJ
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2004 5:35:45 PM EDT by FunYun1983]
This isan't as bad as it is made out to be. The only fingerprinting is done when you get your license, and its nothing new. It is done electronicly so now you will know instantly if you can get the license your applying for. You used to wait as long as 2 months. This also keeps you from buying guns when you can't. Even if you wern't stopped from buying one, you will more than likely charged with illegaly purchasing a firearm when they find out.

Though I must say that the rest of the gun laws are bullshit. The pistols that are not allowed are that way because they've been deemed "unsafe". If there "unsafe" then why do all all the cops use them in the state? Also the Attorney General has his own personal list of firearms he sees unfit for us to use, but neglects to publish the list. Great place isan't it?


LoL... $7mil is nothing compared to that sewer they dug under the city.
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:36:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Thank god I escaped two years
ago. They can keep their liberal
utopia...



And Vermont is not a liberal utopia?
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 5:45:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree:
Damn, they started this at Four Seasons? That's my favorite gun shop! At least im leaving this liberal utopia in a few months


Carl @ Four Seasons is the nicest, most honest gun dealer I have ever met. Although, he did separate me from several weeks months wages over the years.

Mike

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