Looks like S&W is screwing the pooch on the M&P 15/22 safety debacle

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Looks like S&W is screwing the pooch on the M&P 15/22 safety debacle (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:38:12 PM EDT

The Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation just sent out this email banning the S&W M&P 15 from their events. Seems they have had a few recent issues identical to the Appleseed problems including a runaway gun and out of battery firing.

UPDATE: Important Equipment Safety Concern

****UPDATE: SAFETY CONCERN****

Additional information on the safety concern posted previously. First, we thank everyone who has reached out to us and have explained the issues they have personally witnessed. If I had known all this information earlier, this action would have been taken a quite a while ago. As I now understand it there are three issues our teams and coaches have witnessed.

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

2. The bolt space issue subject to the safety alert we shared from S&W. When the alert was released we spoke to the company and were advised this would correct the out of battery issue, as well as an issue with the firearm firing repeatedly as the bolt closes.

3. Firearm firing out of battery.

Plan of action to address concerns:

1. This was witnessed by a coach at an SASP practice. It is my understanding that if we required anti walk trigger pins, this issue would be resolved.

2. It is my understanding that the repeated fire will be fixed by confirming that the spacing is proper with the gauge provided by S&W.

3. Although we were informed this would have been corrected by checking the space with the gauge, it has not. At a SASP State match, a S&W M&P 15-22 fired out of battery, luckily only causing very minor injury to a safety officer. That firearm had, and has again been checked, and passes inspection with the gauge. We have reached out multiple times and left messages with multiple people at S&W to contact us. After no responses from S&W, for the safety of everyone in our program, we sent out the directive to temporarily stop using the firearm in our program. Staff reached out twice on Friday to S&W Customer Service and both times, after a little over 20 minutes on hold, our call was disconnected by S&W without us being able to speak to anyone.

At this point, until we can be assured by S&W that this safety issue is something specific to this one firearm, under no circumstance is this firearm allowed to be used in ANY SASP practice or events.

At no time will SASP compromise when it comes to the safety of the participants in our program.

Respectfully,

Rick Leach
National Director, SASP
About the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation

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I'm trying to wrap my head around the arrogance that chooses to do the bare minimum (spacer gauge) when there clearly is more going on with the M&P 15/22 than just a headspace problem.

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:42:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Mine’s a champ. [shrug]

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:44:08 PM EDT

[#2]

What do they expect from a $400 gun?

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:46:05 PM EDT

[#3]

So this issue is only with the .22?

I was thinking about getting one for practice since a half dozen of my pistols are s&w. But I was already leaning towards the Ruger sr22.....

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:50:14 PM EDT

[#4]

I had not had any of these issues. I just got my bolt gauge yesterday and will check it tomorrow. Thousands of rounds down range from mine.

Posted: 4/7/2019 11:52:51 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

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Pull trigger go boom
Not pull trigger no boom

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:02:06 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

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A gun that doesn’t randomly go full auto or fire out of battery is a lot to ask for?

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:03:20 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
So this issue is only with the .22?

I was thinking about getting one for practice since a half dozen of my pistols are s&w. But I was already leaning towards the Ruger sr22.....

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Yes the .22 version. I’ll edit the title.

I’d suggest building your own upper instead.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:07:36 AM EDT

[#8]

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

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I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:10:20 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

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Quoted:

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:11:27 AM EDT

[#10]

So with the huge numbers of people using this site, SOMEBODY has to personally had an M&P15-22 go berserk on them.
Will that person please chime in?

Why is it always some Fuddy group that experiences this? The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:11:51 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Pull trigger go boom
Not pull trigger no boom

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Quoted:

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

Pull trigger go boom
Not pull trigger no boom

Except this issue is boom, boom, boom with one pull. I bought one a week ago. Mines ok, but I kinda want one of the faulty bolts for it too.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:18:27 AM EDT

[#12]

More disappointed with the existing jams than the potential full auto

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:19:02 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
So with the huge numbers of people using this site, SOMEBODY has to personally had an M&P15-22 go berserk on them.
Will that person please chime in?

Why is it always some Fuddy group that experiences this? The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

View Quote

I had one of the earlier versions, before they changed the recoil springs IIRC, bought around 2014.

Put at least several bricks through it, not even a FTF, much less an OOB. I wish I had kept the damn thing now.

IDK what’s going on but I hope they get it resolved as I want to buy a couple of new ones. Fun little guns, no doubt, and excellent trainers for young shooters because the similarity with its full size brethren.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:19:22 AM EDT

[#14]

never happened with my own S&W M&P 15-22 nor any of the others owned by my friends

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:19:44 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

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Quote History

Quoted:

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

It's not a trigger pin issue. It's the bolt face being so shallow/tight that the exctractor actually sets off the rim. Now I just want an AR-180.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:25:02 AM EDT

[#16]

You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a problem with a 15/22.
But checking it would be a prudent idea.
Mine has had a few thousand rounds through it, I’m not worried

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:26:10 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
A gun that doesn’t randomly go full auto or fire out of battery is a lot to ask for?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

A gun that doesn’t randomly go full auto or fire out of battery is a lot to ask for?

Seems like a pretty reasonable ask. Heck, Mossberg can do it in the exact same platform for half the price

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:34:28 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

Seems like a pretty reasonable ask. Heck, Mossberg can do it in the exact same platform for half the price

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LOL this turd?

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:34:33 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a problem with a 15/22.
But checking it would be a prudent idea.
Mine has had a few thousand rounds through it, I’m not worried

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Agreed. Already have 800 rounds through mine in a week. No cleaning, no issues. There are probably a few dozen that are faulty.

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:44:29 AM EDT

[#20]

I’ve yet to clean mine in the two years and a dozen bricks through it. It checks fine with little gauge they sent. I love it and need more mags since the dozen I have run dry too quick

Posted: 4/8/2019 12:48:04 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
So with the huge numbers of people using this site, SOMEBODY has to personally had an M&P15-22 go berserk on them.
Will that person please chime in?

Why is it always some Fuddy group that experiences this? The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

View Quote

Appleseed isn’t exactly Pat Mac but they’re a long ways away from Fuddy and SSF does everything from traditional shotgun (Fudd stuff) to more modern steel challenge’ish events.

I’ve never had a trigger pin walk out but I did have a hammer pin break in half at the groove and start doubling before I figured out what was causing it.

On top of walking pins blowback .22’s are susceptible to doubling (or more) from a bolt traveling back just far enough to extract the empty and feed a fresh round but not reset the hammer so the hammer follows the bolt forward and slam fires.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:12:14 AM EDT

[#22]

Meh. I've got a newer blue spring model and it has been fine. Bolt face gauged fine as well.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:15:10 AM EDT

[#23]

Have an old quad rail handguard model for years with thousands upon thousands of rounds through it and never an issue to speak of. Been more reliable than my friends 10-22 models.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:26:33 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Agreed.

Already have 800 rounds through mine in a week. No cleaning, no issues. There are probably a few dozen that are faulty.

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Have several 1000 rounds thu my 15-22 -- every brand we could find as a test --- Remington Golden Bullets, Remington Thunderbolts, Remington Yellow Jacket, CCI Mini Mags, CCI Standard Velocity, CCI Tactical, CCI Stinger, CCI Velocitor, Federal Ultra Match, Federal Walmart Value packs, Federal Automatch, Aguila Standard vel., Aguila high vel, and Aguila hyper vel, and Winchester Super-X, ,

Every one has been 100% reliable. No problems with feeding, extracting or ignition. My 15-22 is 6-7 years old. Will test it withh the gauge when it arrives. Only problem I have is periodically cleaning the wax and crud/residue off the bolf face every 1000 rounds.t

CCI Tactical (40 grain slightly slower than MiniMag) and Aguila are the two most accurate rounds in my 15-22.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:38:09 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a problem with a 15/22.

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My brother has been struck

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:43:23 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
So with the huge numbers of people using this site, SOMEBODY has to personally had an M&P15-22 go berserk on them.
Will that person please chime in?

Why is it always some Fuddy group that experiences this? The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

View Quote

Sadly if thst person were to step forward and the ATF saw that they MIGHT go after that user for a unregistered machinegun. I belive my Aunts step uncle knew a guy who's sisters boyfriend went to prison for that.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:43:29 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

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Something that works or at least isn't dangerous.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:48:42 AM EDT

[#28]

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:53:54 AM EDT

[#29]

Received my gauge a week ago and mine checked out fine. Never had an issue all these years.

Posted: 4/8/2019 1:54:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

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Considering I've had it happen with an AR, I'd say it's plausible.

Posted: 4/8/2019 2:04:54 AM EDT

[#31]

My 15-22 ran great for a few hundred rounds then went “binary” never dumped a mag luckily. I sent it back and they installed a new bolt and its been trouble free for a few 1000 round bricks so idk...not exactly apples to apples but its a real life example. Im not sure if going binary was a precursor to full auto or not all i know is it works fine now and i love mine

Posted: 4/8/2019 2:24:55 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

A gun that doesn’t randomly go full auto or fire out of battery is a lot to ask for?

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usually you have to pay more for that

Posted: 4/8/2019 2:35:19 AM EDT

[#33]

Got my bolt gauge Friday and mine is fine. No big deal if it wasn't - I'd get a new bolt from S&W.

They aren't the first, nor will they be the last company to issue a safety recall.

Wanna bitch about safety issues? Talk to the NTSB about automaker recalls and some of those very deadly fuckups.

Posted: 4/8/2019 2:37:50 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
More disappointed with the existing jams than the potential full auto

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I followed this guy’s advice and it stopped all the jams.

S&W M&P 15-22 .22 LR Failure To Eject Repair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8XRh8-8Ts

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:13:10 PM EDT

[#35]

Anyone on arf have problems? Appleseed had a handful before they banned it and the SSF had at least one.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:17:35 PM EDT

[#36]

Half the assholes with these problems, can't figure out why their gun doesn't work right, after modifying/"bubba smithing"!

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:25:14 PM EDT

[#37]

Attached File

My son with his.

We've had it for a while and put 1000s of rounds through it, no problems. Bought it used from Cabelas.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:25:34 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

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For the gun not to mag dump on full auto or fire out of battery? Basically everybody else’s .22 semi autos can do that much at least for even less. Ruger doesn’t have that problem.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:28:58 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

Adjust rolling on the floor?...

...dafuq is this? I'm so confused

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:29:23 PM EDT

[#40]

What's weird is my LGS said peeps are bringing in 5.56 S&W carbines and getting shed of them thinking they are unsafe. They have bought 12 in the last few days and sold them cheap despite the LGS telling the customers it's the .22 version that has some issues.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:32:03 PM EDT

[#41]

Looks like S&W hasn't screwed the pooch despite the internet hysteria.

Debacle.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:35:09 PM EDT

[#42]

Bought mine in 2010; we’ll over 10k rounds. Never went full retard on me.

My question is how many 15-22’s have been sold and how many have actually had this issue? I bet the persentage is somewhere in thousandths decimal range.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:37:52 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Adjust rolling on the floor?...

...dafuq is this? I'm so confused

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Quote History

Quoted:

1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.

I've only heard at gun shows that filing the firing pin makes the gun go full auto.

Hmm, a new market for a trigger pin with a little knob to...adjust ROF?

Adjust rolling on the floor?...

...dafuq is this? I'm so confused

Given the context, rate of fire makes sense, yes?

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:38:53 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
What do they expect from a $400 gun?

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I always pronounce your username: A-po-clip-toe, like Kristin Wigg as the Target cashier from when SNL was actually funny.

BTW, Bryci is a nice avatar.

Posted: 4/8/2019 7:55:24 PM EDT

[#45]

Bought mine for son to take Appleseed course years ago, oh well it runs fine.

Posted: 4/8/2019 8:29:32 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Anyone on arf have problems? Appleseed had a handful before they banned it and the SSF had at least one.

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Nope.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/MandP-15-22-CONSUMER-SAFETY-ALERT/118-737953/?page=1&anc=7867863#i7867863

Posted: 4/8/2019 8:30:47 PM EDT

[#47]

10k thru mine without issue

Posted: 4/8/2019 8:42:21 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
So with the huge numbers of people using this site, SOMEBODY has to personally had an M&P15-22 go berserk on them.
Will that person please chime in?

Why is it always some Fuddy group that experiences this? The trigger pin walked and it went full auto? Ok...

View Quote

Sadly (in light of this post) mine works perfectly.