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Posted: 3/15/2010 7:50:25 PM EDT
I saw on Drudge that C-Span now has all of their archive footage up on a web site.  Since there has always been controversy over the Hughes amendment and its voice vote adoption to the FOPA, I thought I would take a look and see if I could find the footage.  I am having a hard time finding the date the amendment was passed; but so far I have found this.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=556712038
I pretty sure he is talking about the machine gun amendment or the bill itself on that day.
Only problem is the video doesn't work yet.  Since they are still in the beta stages they might not have uploaded all the footage yet.

Keep an eye on it.

https://secure.nraila.org/Contact.aspx

(800) 392-VOTE (8683)
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 7:57:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Tag.
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 7:58:41 PM EDT
[#2]



Quoted:


Tag.


yep



 
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:00:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Tag.

yep
 


In.

Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:00:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Hughes, judiciary subcommittee, April 10th, I think. I wonder if the "let it go" is still on the tape.
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:01:29 PM EDT
[#5]
t..a... to the g..
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:03:59 PM EDT
[#6]
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:05:55 PM EDT
[#7]
subscribe
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:13:15 PM EDT
[#8]
I think Rangel(sp) NYC, was the chair of the committee. I recorded it on a beta tape and can't find it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:34:48 PM EDT
[#9]
I can't get any video or transcript, is the site working?
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:36:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 8:38:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?


That's precisely what I was thinking.

I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.
Link Posted: 3/15/2010 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#12]
tag
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 4:25:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Anybody find the video of the committee meeting? The session was only of the house meeting, not the judiciary committee.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 5:40:49 PM EDT
[#14]
The archive starts in 1987. :(

If anyone has video of it from CSPAN, regardless of the format, I will either convert it or pay to convert it to get it online.

I've been looking for this video for at least 5 years.  I had just turned 2 when it aired.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 5:45:00 PM EDT
[#15]
You won't find the footage. I've scoured the internet plenty of times, to no avail.


I'm sure plenty of people recorded it on VHS, but I've yet to see anyone upload their copy.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 5:48:26 PM EDT
[#16]
In.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 5:54:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Tag...
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 6:02:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Using post 6000 to say, fuck charlie rangel, fuck the democrats, and fuck obama.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 6:03:38 PM EDT
[#19]
nice


ETA: I guess i'll be burning post 5000 to do the same as the poster above me.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 6:07:51 PM EDT
[#20]
I will burn post 1444
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 6:41:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Tagged and stuff....
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 6:43:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Tagged and stuff....


Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:09:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I think Rangel(sp) NYC, was the chair of the committee. I recorded it on a beta tape and can't find it.


Find it, send it to me.  I'll get it converted and post it to YouTube.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:11:16 PM EDT
[#24]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?



What a can of worms that would open...




Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  



Is there a lawyer in the house?




That's precisely what I was thinking.



I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


To have standing, I think you'd have to prove that you actually tried to register a post '86 gun and were denied.





 
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:13:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Nothing - it's moot.




Quoted:


I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?



What a can of worms that would open...






 
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:15:59 PM EDT
[#26]




Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:



Quoted:

I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?



What a can of worms that would open...




Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.



Is there a lawyer in the house?




That's precisely what I was thinking.



I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


To have standing, I think you'd have to prove that you actually tried to register a post '86 gun and were denied.





That's rather easy. Fill out the form and send it in. When they reject it, you have standing. You never have to actually have a post '86 gun in your posession or anything illegal.

Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:31:55 PM EDT
[#27]
And I'm in.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 8:33:27 PM EDT
[#28]
I am pre-tagging this for when I remember to renew my membership.
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 10:16:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
The archive starts in 1987. :(

If anyone has video of it from CSPAN, regardless of the format, I will either convert it or pay to convert it to get it online.

I've been looking for this video for at least 5 years.  I had just turned 2 when it aired.


I'm in for $100 of the cost if it gets expensive. PM me if you ever find it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 5:28:15 PM EDT
[#30]
If we never find it, is there such a thing as one of the Arfcom family having a CSPAN connection?

As I remember it, there were a few people in the hearing room, with rangel in front facing the camera and everyone else with their backs to the camera. It only took a short time to bring the hughes amendment up. rangel asked for the yeas and there were a few voices. He then asked for the nays and there were a few shouts 'NO!'. The usual 'the yeas have it' and a whisper in the background (one of our guys!) saying, 'let it go'.

Then it was on to the next business.

They 'let it go'. A handful of people, maybe less than a dozen, lost the right.

The whole bill went to reagan and he signed it.

Rumor has it that ted kennedy (rot in hell **^*(%^%$&#&%^$) had a pile of MGs.

And yes, I'm still looking for the tape.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:07:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Was the hughes amendment passed via reconciliation similar to what they are trying to do with this healthcare bill?  I wasn't alive at the time.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:18:57 PM EDT
[#32]
tag
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:39:03 PM EDT
[#33]
No, it was part of a committee (house judiciary) meeting to work on the stuff that was going into the bill. Some stuff made it, unfortunately.

The house had been run by the demos since forever, however..
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?


That's precisely what I was thinking.

I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


It won't have any effect. The courts will not "look behind" the legilative process as a matter of separation of powers. Once the Vice President (or president pro tem) and the Speaker of the House certify that the respective bodies each passed a bill that's it. If the President then signs the bill it becomes law whether there was a procedural irregularity or not.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:50:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?


That's precisely what I was thinking.

I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


It won't have any effect. The courts will not "look behind" the legilative process as a matter of separation of powers. Once the Vice President (or president pro tem) and the Speaker of the House certify that the respective bodies each passed a bill that's it. If the President then signs the bill it becomes law whether there was a procedural irregularity or not.


Perhaps a minor irregularity but this is a Constitutional question, so I would be surprised if they did not take it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 6:57:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?


That's precisely what I was thinking.

I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


It won't have any effect. The courts will not "look behind" the legilative process as a matter of separation of powers. Once the Vice President (or president pro tem) and the Speaker of the House certify that the respective bodies each passed a bill that's it. If the President then signs the bill it becomes law whether there was a procedural irregularity or not.


Nah, that doesn't make any sense.  What you just said is that 3 people could write and pass any bill they want, all by themselves, regardless of what anybody else says about it, and SCOTUS wouldn't even be the slightest bit interested.

Not likely.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 7:08:51 PM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?



What a can of worms that would open...




Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  



Is there a lawyer in the house?




That's precisely what I was thinking.



I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.




It won't have any effect. The courts will not "look behind" the legilative process as a matter of separation of powers. Once the Vice President (or president pro tem) and the Speaker of the House certify that the respective bodies each passed a bill that's it. If the President then signs the bill it becomes law whether there was a procedural irregularity or not.




Nah, that doesn't make any sense.  What you just said is that 3 people could write and pass any bill they want, all by themselves, regardless of what anybody else says about it, and SCOTUS wouldn't even be the slightest bit interested.



Not likely.


I wonder.  



As a layman, it seems to me that the court is charged with deciding constitutional matters.  Something like this doesn't sound like a "procedural irregularity," it sounds like a cut and dry constitutional issue that the court would have a clear right to decide on.  I don't see it as a separation of powers issue I see it as the SCOTUS doing their damn job.





 
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 7:13:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder, hypothetically, what would happen if someone could prove the amendment did not pass?

What a can of worms that would open...


Might be a novel argument for the defense in an illegal mg case.  

Is there a lawyer in the house?


That's precisely what I was thinking.

I'm sure it would have to go to SCOTUS though.


It won't have any effect. The courts will not "look behind" the legilative process as a matter of separation of powers. Once the Vice President (or president pro tem) and the Speaker of the House certify that the respective bodies each passed a bill that's it. If the President then signs the bill it becomes law whether there was a procedural irregularity or not.


Nah, that doesn't make any sense.  What you just said is that 3 people could write and pass any bill they want, all by themselves, regardless of what anybody else says about it, and SCOTUS wouldn't even be the slightest bit interested.

Not likely.

I wonder.  

As a layman, it seems to me that the court is charged with deciding constitutional matters.  Something like this doesn't sound like a "procedural irregularity," it sounds like a cut and dry constitutional issue that the court would have a clear right to decide on.  I don't see it as a separation of powers issue I see it as the SCOTUS doing their damn job.

 


Exactly.  If the law wasn't passed, then no matter who "says" it was passed, or who signed it, it can't be a law –– at least not in any way I can imagine.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 7:21:25 PM EDT
[#39]
The issue came up a few years ago when the Dems sued because the Reps used "deem and pass" on a bill the Dems didn't like. They claimed "deem and pass" was unconstitutional. The Court of Appeals refused to rule that the law was passed unconsitiutionally for the exact reason given. The SCOTUS refused to take the case.
Like it or not, there is something called "separation of powers". The courts won't pass judgment on how a law was passed.
Link Posted: 3/19/2010 7:26:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:

Nah, that doesn't make any sense.  


Your problem is that you're attempting to apply logic to the law. You'll never get anywhere trying that. In the first place, lawyers don't think the way "laymen" do. In the second place, logic doesn't count for much.

As it was put decades ago: "The life of the law is not logic, but experience."

Link Posted: 3/19/2010 7:32:09 PM EDT
[#41]



Quoted:


The issue came up a few years ago when the Dems sued because the Reps used "deem and pass" on a bill the Dems didn't like. They claimed "deem and pass" was unconstitutional. The Court of Appeals refused to rule that the law was passed unconsitiutionally for the exact reason given. The SCOTUS refused to take the case.

Like it or not, there is something called "separation of powers". The courts won't pass judgment on how a law was passed.


Interesting.



Food for thought on this topic that applies to current day matters.



http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0310/Is_deem__pass_unconstitutional_It_doesnt_matter.html



 
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:35:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Remember Sandy Froman? She's the NRA past president who has a huge MG collection. She shot some of them on the Dillon movies.

I always vote for her and one or two others who are MG people. There was one other guy this time that had 'NFA owner' in his profile!

I'm going to try to reach her and see if she has the CSPN or if it's in the NRA library.

I'm a lifer at GOA and SAF, so I'll ask them, too.
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:45:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Remember Sandy Froman? She's the NRA past president who has a huge MG collection. She shot some of them on the Dillon movies.

I always vote for her and one or two others who are MG people. There was one other guy this time that had 'NFA owner' in his profile!

I'm going to try to reach her and see if she has the CSPN or if it's in the NRA library.

I'm a lifer at GOA and SAF, so I'll ask them, too.


That would be sweet, get that out there, and watch the back peddling begin
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:10:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I saw on Drudge that C-Span now has all of their archive footage up on a web site.  Since there has always been controversy over the Hughes amendment and its voice vote adoption to the FOPA, I thought I would take a look and see if I could find the footage.  I am having a hard time finding the date the amendment was passed; but so far I have found this.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=556712038
I pretty sure he is talking about the machine gun amendment or the bill itself on that day.
Only problem is the video doesn't work yet.  Since they are still in the beta stages they might not have uploaded all the footage yet.

Keep an eye on it



Having seen it real time when it happened, I can assure you there is no controversy.  The Nay's clearly had it by a very wide margin, and it gaveled it in anyway.

The fix was in.  The American people were screwed over.
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:18:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw on Drudge that C-Span now has all of their archive footage up on a web site.  Since there has always been controversy over the Hughes amendment and its voice vote adoption to the FOPA, I thought I would take a look and see if I could find the footage.  I am having a hard time finding the date the amendment was passed; but so far I have found this.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=556712038
I pretty sure he is talking about the machine gun amendment or the bill itself on that day.
Only problem is the video doesn't work yet.  Since they are still in the beta stages they might not have uploaded all the footage yet.

Keep an eye on it



Having seen it real time when it happened, I can assure you there is no controversy.  The Nay's clearly had it by a very wide margin, and it gaveled it in anyway.

The fix was in.  The American people were screwed over.


I've always heard that, and think it's true.

Let's prove it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:51:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Tagged and stuff....


Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:58:05 PM EDT
[#47]
I would really wonder if this came to the supreme court, if it would be a 5-4 margin for or against allowing MG's again. There are pretty much 5 strict constitutionists and 4 activists on the court at this time. I just wonder how it would play out, and I am kind of surprised no one (ahem NRA) has taken this issue to court. This seems like on of the largest second amendment violations to date in my eyes.
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 7:59:39 PM EDT
[#48]




Quoted:



Quoted:

I saw on Drudge that C-Span now has all of their archive footage up on a web site. Since there has always been controversy over the Hughes amendment and its voice vote adoption to the FOPA, I thought I would take a look and see if I could find the footage. I am having a hard time finding the date the amendment was passed; but so far I have found this.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=556712038

I pretty sure he is talking about the machine gun amendment or the bill itself on that day.

Only problem is the video doesn't work yet. Since they are still in the beta stages they might not have uploaded all the footage yet.



Keep an eye on it






Having seen it real time when it happened, I can assure you there is no controversy. The Nay's clearly had it by a very wide margin, and it gaveled it in anyway.



The fix was in. The American people were screwed over.


I've seen the video a long time ago and I could have sworn that it was online. The "nay's" (majority) were screaming "NO!" when they passed it. Man I wish I remembered where I saw it.



-X



You know what, I thought about it and it might have been just the audio with a still picture shown.  
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 8:00:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I would really wonder if this came to the supreme court, if it would be a 5-4 margin for or against allowing MG's again. There are pretty much 5 strict constitutionists and 4 activists on the court at this time. I just wonder how it would play out, and I am kind of surprised no one (ahem NRA) has taken this issue to court. This seems like on of the largest second amendment violations to date in my eyes.


There are 4 strict constructionists, 4 liberal yahoos, and 1 who waffles back and forth.  MGs aren't going to happen until there's a strict constructionist majority –– and maybe not even then.
Link Posted: 3/20/2010 8:10:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Was the hughes amendment passed via reconciliation similar to what they are trying to do with this healthcare bill?  I wasn't alive at the time.


I think that is the biggest non-second amendment issue that the courts might one day have to consider.

Quite frankly the law is discriminatory to people born after 1968.
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