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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:42:30 AM EST
hi, to make a long story short, i have a bowers cac9 can for which i no longer have an smg for it. i would like to keep it. can the internals be gutted to another caliber since its the tube that is registered?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:29:51 PM EST
Only by a SOT....

Thank to some dumb ass that wrote a letter, simple gut change, bore to allow more clearance for bullet to pass (reduce strike ability) now constitute "NEW" suppressor. so another $200 registration-transfer tax.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 2:26:45 PM EST
does this mean another set of prints, photos, form whatever, and another 3 to 6 mth wait. the 200 bucks does not bother me that much just the other bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:26:38 AM EST
You cant change the caliber, you need to buy a new suppressor.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 3:34:22 PM EST
If you want to go up in size then there's really nothing to stop you from "polishing" the insides. Example, it's officially still a 9mm suppressor but happens to work fine in .45acp.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 3:37:36 PM EST
Regardless of calling it "polishing" or however you describe it, the ATF has said it is not acceptable:
ATF Suppressor letter
Q5: May a repair change the dimensions or caliber of a silencer?
A: If alterations to a silencer would increase the overall length or change the diameter or caliber
of a silencer, this is the making of a new silencer, as opposed to a repair. The new silencer must
be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. Alterations to a
registered silencer that result in a minimal reduction in the overall length for purposes of
rethreading are permissible as repairs. However, the reduction in length may not result in the
removal, obliteration, or alteration of the existing serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C.
§ 922(k). If such a repair is necessary, the damaged silencer should be destroyed or returned to
the registrant. If it is destroyed, destruction should be reported to the NFA Branch. Any
replacement silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the
GCA. See Q2 and Q3 for further information on repairs.


Kharn
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:26:18 PM EST
"Polishing" does not increase length, does not increase diameter, does not change caliber. Fully in compliance.

I shoot .22 thru a 9mm can. Is that a caliber change? No; so fully in compliance.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:44:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 1:45:34 AM EST by Kharn]
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
"Polishing" does not increase length, does not increase diameter, does not change caliber. Fully in compliance.
If you're making a .38" hole into a .48" hole you most certainly are increasing the caliber, regardless of what you call the machining operation you want to perform.

I shoot .22 thru a 9mm can. Is that a caliber change? No; so fully in compliance.
Last time I looked at a ruler, .22" was smaller than 9mm. The ATF letter says you may not increase the caliber without making a new suppressor, which means you cant make the hole through the baffles and front endcap larger.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:05:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kharn:
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
"Polishing" does not increase length, does not increase diameter, does not change caliber. Fully in compliance.
If you're making a .38" hole into a .48" hole you most certainly are increasing the caliber, regardless of what you call the machining operation you want to perform.

I shoot .22 thru a 9mm can. Is that a caliber change? No; so fully in compliance.
Last time I looked at a ruler, .22" was smaller than 9mm. The ATF letter says you may not increase the caliber without making a new suppressor, which means you cant make the hole through the baffles and front endcap larger.

Kharn

no it does not

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:35:12 AM EST
If alterations to a silencer would increase the overall length or change the diameter or caliber
of a silencer, this is the making of a new silencer, as opposed to a repair.

Making a new silencer: an SOT would engrave the tube with the new manufacturer's name & info and transfer it back to the owner by Form 4. If its the owner doing it, they must get a Form 1 and engrave the can with their info.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:29:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kharn:
The ATF letter says you may not increase the caliber without making a new suppressor,
Kharn


The ATF letter does not say this; it's only you.


The letter only mentions caliber change. Is 9mm the same caliber as .22?? No. So, if I shoot .22 thru a suppressor marked on the tube as 9mm, I've effectively changed calibers and violated ...???

If you read the letter really carefully, it only mentions changing the diameter but does not specify which diameter. This could mean the diameter of the tube, the diameter of the baffle, the diameter of the bore, or the diameter of the endcaps. People just ASSuME that they mean the diameter of the bore of the individual baffles. They really have a serious problem here because every time you fire a round, you've effectively changed the diameter of the baffle bores. Normal wear and tear will enlarge the bore enough. I've seen a 9mm AWC MK9 that has over 80k+ rounds thru it and with lots of baffle strikes, the holes are large enough to run .45. I've also seen a .223 can made by a small time C2 where the blast baffle will pass a 308, and this one only has 5k rounds.


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:51:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 5:56:11 PM EST by Kharn]
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Originally Posted By Kharn:
The ATF letter says you may not increase the caliber without making a new suppressor,
Kharn


The ATF letter does not say this; it's only you.


The letter only mentions caliber change. Is 9mm the same caliber as .22?? No. So, if I shoot .22 thru a suppressor marked on the tube as 9mm, I've effectively changed calibers and violated ...???
Using 22 through a 9mm does not require you machine the baffle stack to make it fit.

If you read the letter really carefully, it only mentions changing the diameter but does not specify which diameter.
It specifically states 'diameter or caliber'
This could mean the diameter of the tube, the diameter of the baffle, the diameter of the bore, or the diameter of the endcaps.
Diameter of the tube is 'diameter', the internal diameter of the front end cap and the bafflestack are 'caliber', rear endcap is an iffy subject due to multiple mount designs.
People just ASSuME that they mean the diameter of the bore of the individual baffles.
I've never heard the OD of a suppressor referred to as the caliber of the suppressor.
They really have a serious problem here because every time you fire a round, you've effectively changed the diameter of the baffle bores. Normal wear and tear will enlarge the bore enough. I've seen a 9mm AWC MK9 that has over 80k+ rounds thru it and with lots of baffle strikes, the holes are large enough to run .45. I've also seen a .223 can made by a small time C2 where the blast baffle will pass a 308, and this one only has 5k rounds.
The ATF accepts baffle clearance from the manufacturer, some 223 cans will pass a 9mm and some 308 cans will pass a 45. Using 9mm in such a can is not an issue, as that does not require intentional modification, but if you take an EDM to your baffle stack and modify a very narrow 223 can with minimal clearance to have enough clearance to use with 6.8 or .30Whisper you're asking for trouble. Wear and tear on a suppressor is normal and to be expected, chucking the suppressor into a lathe or an EDM is not.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:58:33 PM EST
Good luck with that Hail Mary
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