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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/6/2005 7:59:28 PM EDT
My friend wants to get a low priced possibly even used bird hunting gun
he wants a 12 gauge.
I am not too knowledgeable in the bird gunting or trap portion of shotguns so i am relying on my fellow Ar15.comers for advice and brands/models to look at
or even places to look online for a new purchase.
i will direct him towards CDNN for used and new to get some prices once he finds what one he wants...
possibly even classifieds on gun forums for used ones.
so what should i tell him would be a good bird gun?
thanks
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:20:10 PM EDT
Academy puts Mossberg Maverick 88's on sale for $138 regularly. I use for waterfowling. Excellent cheapo shotguns, has never failed me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:31:02 PM EDT
i think the BEST low priced birdguns right now are the Beretta automatic sporting shotguns. A303 and A390. you can find a used one for around $400. the turkish import Khan shotguns are suprisingly good quality with beautiful wood and horrible metal finishes. i think they are a good solid choice for a beginner over/under. expect to pay around $400 brand new.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:58:42 AM EDT
Totally subjective,
Bottom line is that the gun needs to fit him or he will not hit anything with it (just short of contorting to the shotguns POI over his POA).
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:03:27 AM EDT
i have a mossberg 500 with a 26 in barrel that i bought new from walmart for $120 but it was on sale at the time and i've shot at least 30 ducks a year with over th last 3 yrs
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:10:22 PM EDT
This is going to be a little long but stick with me par0thead151 and save your frind from making expen$ive mi$take$. Buying a shotgun for wingshooting can't be approached with the "what's the cheapest I can get" attitude. He'll NEVER get the full measure of enjoyment from birdhunting if his gun isn't right for him and on this point Dano523 is absolutely correct, the gun's GOT to fit him or he's gonna be blowin' holes in the sky! First off, what sort of birds does he want to shoot, waterfowl, upland birds like quail or pheasant, doves? It's hard for one gun to do it all really well. For example, for ducks and geese a 3" or 3 1/2" chambered long barreled tight choked auto or pump is probably going to be the best value. If quail or pheasant are the target, a quick swinging over and under makes a fine choice. Doves are quite profficient at making the otherwise accomplished wingshooter humble and can provide every type of shooting imaginable. That said, a well balanced moderately heavy gun that smoothes out ones tendancy to "over-swing-then-stop" is usually best on a dove hunt. This might be a single (auto or pump), or a double (O/U or SxS). You also mentioned trapshooting might be desired (best not to confuse this with hunting though). Screw chokes have gone a long way toward downsizing today's birdgun arsenal requirements since one (or two) barrels can accomodate many different chokes for different types of conditions or different ammo. Speaking of ammo, PLEASE don't fall into the trap of buying the cheapest budget birdshot that all the big retailers bring in by the pallet every year at the end of August. This stuff is CRAP! You're beter off in the long run using quality fodder in a scattergun, your hit per dollar ratio is going to be way better shooting the good stuff especially when you factor in the rest of the cost of a hunting trip. "Low priced" is a relative concept. I was drooling over a couple of Krieghoffs last weekend at Cabella's that carried price tags over $30,000 each! That makes a $1100 Red Label seem low priced by comparison. Admittedly, I am addicted to bird hunting myself and personally own an even dozen shotguns in all the aforementioned styles, ten 12 gauges and two 20 gauges and I still want more (please somebody stop me)! Here's my pick for the best value in a do-it-all-for-less bird gun. A Remington 12ga 11-87 with a 28" Remchoke barrel. Here's why, as the all time best selling auto-loading design (including 1100s) there's more of these around than most others combined. They don't break very often and when they do any smith can fix'em plus parts are plentiful and should remain so for decades to come. If you just have to have a longer or shorter barrel, there's plenty around. I know an 870 is cheaper and it's my second pick but for an adult learning to hit birds for the first time it'll just be one less thing to learn (life's short). Used ones go for $400 and up with new ones for $500 and up. Used shotguns aren't as risky as used rifles or pistols though and once you decide on a particular model, get someone to show you how to take it down and inspect it. They're pretty basic. When he finally locates a gun at a price he's comfortable with, your friend needs to get the stock adjusted to fit his length of pull. This is the most critical measurement of a stock and is the distance from the contact surface of the trigger to the center of the recoil pad. This is also a good time to select a new recoil pad, more bucks but believe me it's money well spent (the factory pad's probably junk). Get a Pachmayr Decelerator of the thickness needed to get the correct length if more length is needed. If less length is desired then pad thickness can be whatever you want and material will need to be removed from the stock. A pad runs $20-25 and shouldn't be more than $50-75 for installation (cutting the stock at this time doesn't usually cost any more if you're buying the pad from the smith). At the very least your friend should go somewhere where they have a try-stock or a pull and drop gauge to see what HIS length of pull measures and who knows, maybe a factory stock will fit right out of the box. There's no doubt that some shooters are excellent shots and have never modified their guns in any way. But the vast majority of us need to have a gun that fits us correctly before we can maximize our proficiency. So a good used 11-87 with a 3" chambered 28" screw-choked barrel for smooth swings on doves and a little more reach for "high flyers". It'll also be at home hunting flushing birds over dogs or at the skeet range. It'll handle all but the heaviest 3 1/2" ammo from steel mags to AA light trap. Finally, if he ever decides to replace it, he can turn it into a badass tactical shotgun!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:22:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJAX15:
This is going to be a little long but stick with me par0thead151 and save your frind from making expen$ive mi$take$.
·
Buying a shotgun for wingshooting can't be approached with the "what's the cheapest I can get" attitude. He'll NEVER get the full measure of enjoyment from birdhunting if his gun isn't right for him and on this point Dano523 is absolutely correct, the gun's GOT to fit him or he's gonna be blowin' holes in the sky!
·
First off, what sort of birds does he want to shoot, waterfowl, upland birds like quail or pheasant, doves? It's hard for one gun to do it all really well. For example, for ducks and geese a 3" or 3 1/2" chambered long barreled tight choked auto or pump is probably going to be the best value. If quail or pheasant are the target, a quick swinging over and under makes a fine choice. Doves are quite profficient at making the otherwise accomplished wingshooter humble and can provide every type of shooting imaginable.
·
That said, a well balanced moderately heavy gun that smoothes out ones tendancy to "over-swing-then-stop" is usually best on a dove hunt. This might be a single (auto or pump), or a double (O/U or SxS). You also mentioned trapshooting might be desired (best not to confuse this with hunting though).
·
Screw chokes have gone a long way toward downsizing today's birdgun arsenal requirements since one (or two) barrels can accomodate many different chokes for different types of conditions or different ammo.
·
Speaking of ammo, PLEASE don't fall into the trap of buying the cheapest budget birdshot that all the big retailers bring in by the pallet every year at the end of August. This stuff is CRAP! You're beter off in the long run using quality fodder in a scattergun, your hit per dollar ratio is going to be way better shooting the good stuff especially when you factor in the rest of the cost of a hunting trip. "Low priced" is a relative concept. I was drooling over a couple of Krieghoffs last weekend at Cabella's that carried price tags over $30,000 each! That makes a $1100 Red Label seem low priced by comparison. Admittedly, I am addicted to bird hunting myself and personally own an even dozen shotguns in all the aforementioned styles, ten 12 gauges and two 20 gauges and I still want more (please somebody stop me)!
·
Here's my pick for the best value in a do-it-all-for-less bird gun. A Remington 12ga 11-87 with a 28" Remchoke barrel. Here's why, as the all time best selling auto-loading design (including 1100s) there's more of these around than most others combined. They don't break very often and when they do any smith can fix'em plus parts are plentiful and should remain so for decades to come. If you just have to have a longer or shorter barrel, there's plenty around.
·
I know an 870 is cheaper and it's my second pick but for an adult learning to hit birds for the first time it'll just be one less thing to learn (life's short). Used ones go for $400 and up with new ones for $500 and up. Used shotguns aren't as risky as used rifles or pistols though and once you decide on a particular model, get someone to show you how to take it down and inspect it. They're pretty basic.
·
When he finally locates a gun at a price he's comfortable with, your friend needs to get the stock adjusted to fit his length of pull. This is the most critical measurement of a stock and is the distance from the contact surface of the trigger to the center of the recoil pad. This is also a good time to select a new recoil pad, more bucks but believe me it's money well spent (the factory pad's probably junk). Get a Pachmayr Decelerator of the thickness needed to get the correct length if more length is needed. If less length is desired then pad thickness can be whatever you want and material will need to be removed from the stock. A pad runs $20-25 and shouldn't be more than $50-75 for installation (cutting the stock at this time doesn't usually cost any more if you're buying the pad from the smith).
·
At the very least your friend should go somewhere where they have a try-stock or a pull and drop gauge to see what HIS length of pull measures and who knows, maybe a factory stock will fit right out of the box.
·
There's no doubt that some shooters are excellent shots and have never modified their guns in any way. But the vast majority of us need to have a gun that fits us correctly before we can maximize our proficiency. So a good used 11-87 with a 3" chambered 28" screw-choked barrel for smooth swings on doves and a little more reach for "high flyers". It'll also be at home hunting flushing birds over dogs or at the skeet range. It'll handle all but the heaviest 3 1/2" ammo from steel mags to AA light trap. Finally, if he ever decides to replace it, he can turn it into a badass tactical shotgun!



Helped for some of us how have to take breaks every once in a while to at least let us catch our breaths (got to sound out the words), or for us even older folks who may to take few pee breaks while absorbing this much information.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:41:50 PM EDT
Guess the rest of'em must still be readin' it huh Dano? So how often ya gotta piss during a 900 word essay anyway. Had a coupla brewskis while writin'it and it wuz no problemo.
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