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Posted: 7/24/2013 2:50:48 AM EST
After lubing and sizing the brass, is it nessesary to delube the cases? Keep in mind im using one shot lube and have been told that is one of the advantages of using it. However, ive also heard otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:09:05 AM EST
I use One Shot and have tried it both ways. All rounds fired whether the One Shot was tumbled off or not. This was a test of .223 rounds.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:15:57 AM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:55:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1100tac:
Yes.
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I agree. I did shoot a bucket of ammo where I left the lube on... and it really didn't do anything bad that I could tell.

But in theory, you're altering your cases ability to grip the chamber wall at peak pressure.... and could be increasing the stress on your bolt and extension by allowing the case to slip backwards in the chamber.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:02:49 AM EST
Yes, but you don't need to go crazy. I don't delube my .223 until after it is loaded(I load it on a RL550B)

As I put each round on a stripper clip I give them a quick wipe with a rag.

Leaving lube on your cases can result in a dangerous pressure level and cause damage to your firearm. Remember, liquids are not compressible.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:09:28 AM EST
The other downside is the lube makes dirt stick to the ammo.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 5:36:02 AM EST
OF COURSE delubing is mandatory. This is the biggest thing that keeps me from using a progressive press.
Upon firing, the case expands and grips the chamber wall. This is essential to limiting back thrust on the bolt locking lugs. It is precisely why H&K uses a fluted chamber in some of their guns. The fluting provides more surface area to grip the case.
If you fail to delube, you're inviting sheared bolt lugs.
In short, YES, you DO have to do this the right way. If you find that to be too much work, reloading is NOT for you.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:41:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 6:43:43 AM EST by Trollslayer]
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:

But in theory, you're altering your cases ability to grip the chamber wall at peak pressure.... and could be increasing the stress on your bolt and extension by allowing the case to slip backwards in the chamber.
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:
Originally Posted By 1100tac:
Yes.

But in theory, you're altering your cases ability to grip the chamber wall at peak pressure.... and could be increasing the stress on your bolt and extension by allowing the case to slip backwards in the chamber.



I think the bolt thrust argument is entirely bogus.

The internal pressure bears directly to the rear onto the bolt face through the head of the case. The bolt thrust is a force which is the internal pressure times the case diameter. The locking lugs react this force and keep things together. Note - the bolt thrust has nothing to do with case lubrication or friction on the case walls.

In all modern autoloaders, the pressure has dropped dramatically before the lugs unlock.



Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:
The other downside is the lube makes dirt stick to the ammo.



I think this is a very valid argument. Not only will your ammo accumulate dust and dirt but it will accumulate in your rifle and gum things up if you aren't careful.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:49:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 6:49:45 AM EST by Trollslayer]
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Originally Posted By Invalid:
OF COURSE delubing is mandatory. This is the biggest thing that keeps me from using a progressive press.

You could de-lube after loading, unless you believe tumbling loaded rounds is a problem.



Upon firing, the case expands and grips the chamber wall. This is essential to limiting back thrust on the bolt locking lugs.

I believe this is bogus. See post above.


It is precisely why H&K uses a fluted chamber in some of their guns. The fluting provides more surface area to grip the case.

Baloney!


If you fail to delube, you're inviting sheared bolt lugs.

Baloney!


In short, YES, you DO have to do this the right way. If you find that to be too much work, reloading is NOT for you.

Actually, we agree on this. It's just that we get to this conclusion thru very different reasons.
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Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:59:16 AM EST
Im fixing to start loading 223 on my Dillon xl650 was about to ask this question. So far iv only loaded 45acp which iv sprayed with one shot or dcl and threw them in the case feeder and started loading. never cleaned off the lube never had problems.....

Loaded a variety of rifle calibers on a single stage , lubed the cases and went step by step in the loading process there again never cleaned the lube off....good results no problems

I understand what the people above are talking about inside the chamber....makes sense

Hope my input helped

But id also like more clarification like the OP ...... any more reference to this?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:04:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
I think the bolt thrust argument is entirely bogus.
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Very possibly. Like I said... I shot a bucket full like that.

As far as the other guy's post about this being a reason not to use a progressive... I disagree.

I load on my progressive with cleaned, resized, trimmed, and primed brass. No way I'd do it any other way for the volume of 223 I'm running.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:27:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 7:27:47 AM EST by Trollslayer]
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:


Very possibly. Like I said... I shot a bucket full like that.

As far as the other guy's post about this being a reason not to use a progressive... I disagree.

I load on my progressive with cleaned, resized, trimmed, and primed brass. No way I'd do it any other way for the volume of 223 I'm running.
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
I think the bolt thrust argument is entirely bogus.


Very possibly. Like I said... I shot a bucket full like that.

As far as the other guy's post about this being a reason not to use a progressive... I disagree.

I load on my progressive with cleaned, resized, trimmed, and primed brass. No way I'd do it any other way for the volume of 223 I'm running.



And that works, too.

I really don't buy the arguments Invalid puts forward. I think his arguments are invalid.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 7:32:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
I really don't buy the arguments Invalid puts forward. I think his arguments are invalid.
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At least he pre qualifies his posts with his username.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 9:20:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 9:22:40 AM EST by StealthyBlagga]
I'm not sure I understand why you would want to. If you load in the right way, delubing with a progressive press costs you virtually nothing in terms of time and throughput. Here is what I do on my 650:

1) Tumble brass to get it clean.
2) Apply lube (home made lanolin-in-IPA).
3) Run through the size/decap/trim etc. toolhead.
4) DE-LUBE (10 minutes in the tumbler - also cleans up any swarf from the Dillon trimmer).
5) Run through the prime/powder/bullet/crimp toolhead.

This approach produces very high quality ammo at a fast rate. Every round that comes off the press is clean, dry and ready to shoot. Even if you use some method whereby you end up with loaded rounds covered in lube, where is the harm in tumbling them in clean media for 10 minutes? I do this with 9mm pistol ammo and have never had a problem. Why make life harder or more risky than you need to?
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 9:42:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 9:47:08 AM EST
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I don't use one shot, but if I did, I would tumble the cases before loading.
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One Shot is more likely to get the case stuck in the chamber... like it does in the sizing die.

Could change the name to chamber grip instead.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:39:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:



One Shot is more likely to get the case stuck in the chamber... like it does in the sizing die.

Could change the name to chamber grip instead.
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I don't use one shot, but if I did, I would tumble the cases before loading.



One Shot is more likely to get the case stuck in the chamber... like it does in the sizing die.

Could change the name to chamber grip instead.



But... I've got a bottle of lanolin and 91% al key haul to "roll my own" when I run out of H1S.

My experience is that when used as per the directions, it works. Fail to shake the can and you may get a stuck case.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:06:48 PM EST
I don't tumble lube off, but I wash in a bucket with dawn and lemishine after sizing. They are still a tad waxy, but that is ok.

I imagine the same concern would arise from shooting with ANY amount of cleaning oil in the barrel or chamber, which I know at least a little is left over after a good scrubbing.

There are much more important things to worry about when reloading. Much much more.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:58:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 4:59:31 PM EST by Invalid]
Bolt thrust or back thrust; I don't care which applies (and I'm normally very sticky about nomenclature).
It is a fact that a properly functioning cartridge in a properly made firearm expands upon firing, and it as least partially held in place by the surface tension that is induced by the interface between the brass and steel surface under pressure. Even with steel cased ammo, you rarely see gas intrusion as far back as the cartridge body, because chamber pressure seals that.
What is your version of why H&K uses fluted chambers? Care to provide a link?
The guy who cleans brass after sizing and before priming, charging and seating bullets has a very good procedure.
Tumbling after loading must be OK, because that's what the factories do.
You say that this isn't a problem with .45 ACP. I doubt that you've fired any .45 ACP that developed chamber pressures in excess of 50,000 psi.
It makes zero difference to me if the peanut gallery thinks I'm wrong. Go ahead and leave the lube on your rifle brass, and be sure to carry a few extra eyeballs in your spares kit.
And Rocco- There is nothing more important than keeping your body parts intact while shooting.
Nothing; nothing, nothing.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 5:22:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Invalid:
Bolt thrust or back thrust; I don't care which applies (and I'm normally very sticky about nomenclature).
It is a fact that a properly functioning cartridge in a properly made firearm expands upon firing, and it as least partially held in place by the surface tension that is induced by the interface between the brass and steel surface under pressure. Even with steel cased ammo, you rarely see gas intrusion as far back as the cartridge body, because chamber pressure seals that.
What is your version of why H&K uses fluted chambers? Care to provide a link?
The guy who cleans brass after sizing and before priming, charging and seating bullets has a very good procedure.
Tumbling after loading must be OK, because that's what the factories do.
You say that this isn't a problem with .45 ACP. I doubt that you've fired any .45 ACP that developed chamber pressures in excess of 50,000 psi.
It makes zero difference to me if the peanut gallery thinks I'm wrong. Go ahead and leave the lube on your rifle brass, and be sure to carry a few extra eyeballs in your spares kit.
And Rocco- There is nothing more important than keeping your body parts intact while shooting.
Nothing; nothing, nothing.
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Have you ever seen a kb caused by a lubed case? And can you provide documented proof of that?

This sounds like a box-o-truth worthy test, if painless hasn't done it already.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 6:23:40 PM EST
I'm no expert on reloading but all I have to add is while I haven't tried it yet, I'm just going to start re-tumbling the brass after its loaded.

My body chemistry seems to make brass tarnish very quickly ( I sometimes see tarnish finger prints on them.) I did buy some latex gloves to help prevent that but one day, I accidentally loaded a primer upside down. I don't even know how, cause I swore I watched it in the safety prime cup thing. I put it back on the press and slowly (with my eyes closed and face turned away) de-primed that case. I was expecting to hear a pop but one did not come.

I figure if I could deprime a backwards primer, then there is no way the tumbler is going to set off one of my loads. Plus, bullets not in a chamber/firearm is basically just like popping popcorn. Worst case scenario I needed to buy a new tumbler. So yeah, from now on I'm just going to leave the lube on and retumble my loaded rounds for 10-20 minutes.
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