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Posted: 9/3/2008 8:02:34 PM EDT
what is the army's problem with this thing? everyone who tests it says its superior.... I guess they won't take it because its just too damn expensive?

I wish I could buy it
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 8:07:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 8:08:00 PM EDT by FDC]
Not again...

BLUF:  Too heavy, and it fails when you shoot at it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 8:29:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 8:32:12 PM EDT by Dawg180]
"Everyone who tests it says it is superior" is a completely false statement, and is in fact media spin in part by the company owner.  Several reputable labs have tested it and it fails to pass the NIJ standards.  There is an *extensive* thread with testing results over at Lightfighter.com.

In short, the plates would shift and drop to the bottom of the vest over time creating chinks that bullets could slide right through or even completely unprotected areas, and shots from a low angle could actaully get deflected from a lower plate underneath an upper plate.

That combined with the fact that it weighed almost 30 pounds for a vest and the owner/developer was caught outright committing fraud and lying under oath during some investigations pretty much killed it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 11:31:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
"Everyone who tests it says it is superior" is a completely false statement, and is in fact media spin in part by the company owner.  Several reputable labs have tested it and it fails to pass the NIJ standards.  There is an *extensive* thread with testing results over at Lightfighter.com.

In short, the plates would shift and drop to the bottom of the vest over time creating chinks that bullets could slide right through or even completely unprotected areas, and shots from a low angle could actaully get deflected from a lower plate underneath an upper plate.

That combined with the fact that it weighed almost 30 pounds for a vest and the owner/developer was caught outright committing fraud and lying under oath during some investigations pretty much killed it.


I wonder why the general from the Army doesn't mention any of that...

also funny how the inventor of interceptor says he'd use the dragon skin over his stuff any day
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 2:27:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By taseal:
*Snip*
also funny how the inventor of interceptor says he'd use the dragon skin over his stuff any day


link?
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 3:07:51 AM EDT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vetyGCqJ_rU

you gotta go to like 2.30... there is a weird guy that talks about it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 5:41:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By taseal:

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
"Everyone who tests it says it is superior" is a completely false statement, and is in fact media spin in part by the company owner.  Several reputable labs have tested it and it fails to pass the NIJ standards.  There is an *extensive* thread with testing results over at Lightfighter.com.

In short, the plates would shift and drop to the bottom of the vest over time creating chinks that bullets could slide right through or even completely unprotected areas, and shots from a low angle could actaully get deflected from a lower plate underneath an upper plate.

That combined with the fact that it weighed almost 30 pounds for a vest and the owner/developer was caught outright committing fraud and lying under oath during some investigations pretty much killed it.


I wonder why the general from the Army doesn't mention any of that...

also funny how the inventor of interceptor says he'd use the dragon skin over his stuff any day


Everything I have said can be verified in the Lightfighter thread with references.  No offense, but when it comes to body armor would take lindependent laboratory ballistc testing over the untested word of one or two guys any day.

Link Posted: 9/4/2008 11:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By taseal:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vetyGCqJ_rU

you gotta go to like 2.30... there is a weird guy that talks about it.


We all know that MSNBC and other news outlets are known for their full and honest reporting techniques.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 11:53:05 AM EDT
The funniest part of the whole Dragon Skin debacle is that the Army paid Pinnacle Armor to develop the Dragon Skin body armor through the SBIR (Small Bussiness Inovative Research) program.  I am not saying that the Dragon Skin is ready for prime time but I also do not think it is purely a performance issue that is keeping Dragon Skin and Pinnacle Armor from advancing this flexible armor technology.  I would be willing to bet it is as much politics and the money trail as it is the technical short coming of the armor.  Never underestimate greed to fubar a promising technology.

mcb

Link Posted: 9/4/2008 12:55:56 PM EDT
It often fails in the desert heat, weighs a ton, costs as much as 10 IBAs, and generally just isn't ready for combat use.

The companies failure to provide the Army with test samples sealed their fate. They made all sorts of claims about its performance but refused to provide vests to test so that their claims could be confirmed, which resulted in the Army banning DragonSkin for use by soldiers.  
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 4:21:58 PM EDT
taseal


what is the army's problem with this thing? everyone who tests it says its superior.... I guess they won't take it because its just too damn expensive?

I wish I could buy it


Boy.. Did you walk into the theater halfway thru this movie....

Spend a few nights and actually read all of the threads associated with it and you will find that Murray Neal from Pinnacle produced a product that did not meet  the test protocol and failed the HP White laboratory Independent testing.

His Armor was not the magical suit of Armor that it was touted as ...
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 7:32:00 PM EDT
So I was having a discussion with a buddy, and he is convinced DS is absolutely amazing. Yeah... he gets this way. Anyhoo, I sent him to the Lightfighter thread, and he probably read three posts and decided


Checked the thread... youtube clips, personal opinions, statement. Nope...no statistical data, all anecdote and opinion.


Well, I'm kinda busy, so I wondering if you guys could shoot me some

I want tests, ballistics, research
. Any links to those independent lab tests? Photos?  Hook a brotha up!

Thanks guys... back to my research paper
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 6:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AndrewDwight:
So I was having a discussion with a buddy, and he is convinced DS is absolutely amazing. Yeah... he gets this way. Anyhoo, I sent him to the Lightfighter thread, and he probably read three posts and decided


Checked the thread... youtube clips, personal opinions, statement. Nope...no statistical data, all anecdote and opinion.


Well, I'm kinda busy, so I wondering if you guys could shoot me some

I want tests, ballistics, research
. Any links to those independent lab tests? Photos?  Hook a brotha up!

Thanks guys... back to my research paper


Let me guess, he saw this on one of those cheeseball shows on the Military Channel...
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 6:18:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 10:41:55 AM EDT
They didnt need to test it for me to make a decision, when I found out it weighed twice as much as a IBA with SAPIS the thought of owning Dragonskin threw itself away.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 10:56:10 AM EDT
It is easily penetrated by projectiles striking from oblique angles (anything other than straight on)
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 1:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markdl000:
www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/briefingslide\304\070521-D-6570C-001.pdf


Thanks buddy. Exactly what I needed.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 2:39:47 PM EDT
you got it boss.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 3:58:48 PM EDT
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