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Posted: 4/18/2016 6:34:54 PM EDT
Hi guys...

I've got a Chrony. Its a piece of shit. Readings are highly inconsistent (as in 2660 this shot, 2815 next, than 2490 the shot after) and error readings compromise about 20% of shots fired. Unless you are a meteorologist, and can shoot under exactly the same cloud cover, and at the same time of day every time, the readings are so inconsistent they are meaningless.

So, I'm looking for something that actually works. Has anyone tried a ProChrono? I'm not expecting NASA level precision from a $125 unit, but it would be nice to get some reasonably consistent unit of measure.

Feedback appreciated.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:03:02 PM EDT
Just out of curiosity, what distance are you setting your chrono from your muzzle? Odds are that you are right and it is a piece of shit, but muzzle blast can be a frequent cause of false or improper readings. Although that often gives ridiculous numbers, not plausible but highly unlikely numbers like you mention.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:04:55 PM EDT
How close to the muzzle is the chronograph? Muzzle blast can throw readings off. I use 15 feet when testing and even that is too close for large magnum handguns. I place a sheet of cardboard between the muzzle and chronograph with a small window to shoot through. This deflects most of the muzzle blast and insures good performance.

Try making a plastic tent, a couple of sheets thick over the top of the sky screens. This will diffuse bright sunlight allowing the chronograph to more easily see the bullets. Bright sunlight causes more trouble than any other weather factor when it comes to getting consistent readings.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:10:26 PM EDT
The ProChrono Digital has been my first and only chronograph, and have zero complaints.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:55:56 PM EDT
The muzzle blast including the actual shock waves can really screw up optical sensors.

Really weird readings or (for lower velocity rounds) reading the speed of sound on shot after shot are indicators.

Using a built in IR light source can help a lot.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:16:11 PM EDT by Bearcat24]
Spend the money on a labradar. Worth every penny. No more waiting for range to go cold to make changes. No more accidentally shooting your chrono. No more waiting on the perfect weather. It sits next to you. Works in all weather environments.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:20:13 PM EDT
Magnetospeed has been dead on for me. Using to use and very accurate.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:32:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Magnetospeed has been dead on for me. Using to use and very accurate.
View Quote

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:44:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:46:46 PM EDT by Twoboxer]
If adjusting the distance to your chrono and ensuring you shoot at the same angle and distance over both sensors don't fix the issue . . .

If your budget permits . . . if you have firearms that will allow attachment of a bayonet . . . if you don't mind your POI changing when the bayonet is attached to a barrel . . . look into MagnetoSpeed. Positives: small, light, sets up while the range is hot, works in any weather and in any light or even no light, doesn't miss a shot. While with great effort it can be done, MagnetoSpeeds are hard to shoot :)

If your budget REALLY permits, LabRadar has all the positives of the MagnetoSpeed. It does not attach to your firearm's barrel (sits alongside), so it can be used with any firearm (tested up to 3900fps) and doesn't change the POI.

If tight on budget, you can try another optical chrono.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:27:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bearcat24:
Spend the money on a labradar. Worth every penny. No more waiting for range to go cold to make changes. No more accidentally shooting your chrono. No more waiting on the perfect weather. It sits next to you. Works in all weather environments.
View Quote


I hope so. Mine shipped today.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:17:50 PM EDT
I have the Prochrono Digital and have been very happy with it. Almost zero errors... Very consistent. Does not seem excessively sensitive to lighting conditions.

I spent a few extra bucks and got their wireless digilink system... Love it. Run everything through my iPad or iPhone, no more resetting strings or calling the range cold and email myself the data from the range...no more hand written notes.... Worth every penny.

Good buy in my book.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:51:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 10:52:31 PM EDT by drfroglegs]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Poop3rscoop3r:

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.
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Originally Posted By Poop3rscoop3r:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Magnetospeed has been dead on for me. Using to use and very accurate.

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.


This. I'll never use a traditional Chrony again. Absolutely obsessed with my v3 magnetospeed.

I regularly see less than 10 fps variations in my precision reloads (which is what I expect).

To this day the magnetospeed has not missed a single reading.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 11:43:30 PM EDT
ProChrono is good to go from my experience. It's sometimes a little sensitive to sunlight, but not near as bad as what you described. I sometimes get dups, but not that often. Im very happy with mine.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 11:45:41 PM EDT
I just decided to click into this thread and see what's up. I now have a V3 on the way.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 11:56:32 PM EDT
I just got my Magnetospeed V3 today. Anybody want to buy a Caldwell? Only used once
and the biggest POS I ever seen. It was damn lucky to get a ride home. A few years ago, I would
have shot that thing to pieces. Couldn't find a Labradar so I ordered the V3. Two days later I get an
email saying the Labradar is back in stock! I am sure the V3 will be good enough
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 2:02:50 AM EDT
Honestly, chronographs are over-rated in their utility for the reloader. They are a fun adjunct to the hobby but are in no way necessary. I just felt it was important to put that out there.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:41:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Honestly, chronographs are over-rated in their utility for the reloader. They are a fun adjunct to the hobby but are in no way necessary. I just felt it was important to put that out there.
View Quote


Nothing could be further from the truth.

A chronograph is nothing more than a tool and a tool is only as good as the person using it. You have to ask the right questions to be able to get the right answers. I've used /owned chrongraphs for 25+ years now and have learned a few things along the way. The main 2 times when using a chronograph is an absolute must for me is when:

The 1st time I take a firearm to the range.
I use a known lot of ammo that has been tested in other firearms and a baseline sd & es has been established. If the firearm being tested doesn't fall within those spec then I know there's a mechanical problem with that firearm. If 3 other firearms have a sd of 24 and a es of 47 with a specific lot of ammo and the new firearm is running a sd of 36 and a es of 89. It tells me there's a problem. Without a chronograph I would of never known and would keep thinking that firearm is extremely picky about what ammo/reloads it likes. I also use a chronograph to fine tune a firearm specifically targeting consistent ignition. If you don't have a good solid consistent firing pin hit it will show up on your targets. An excellent example of this is with rimfires. A rimefire is allot more sensitive to fp (firing pin) hits. Consistent ignition ='s consistent ammo which ='s consistent accuracy. Have a cz luz that I really like, it shot ok, 1/4" 5-shot groups @ 25yds and 1/2" 5-shot groups @ 50yds pretty consistently. Basically it was up to me pulling the trigger. I wanted more out of the luz so I stripped the bolt down and polished everything, re-shaped the fp and put an extra power fp spring (striker spring) in it. I used the same lot of test ammo and would do 1 thing to the bolt and go out and test the lux over a chronograph looking for improvements in the sd & es. The more I worked on the bolt the lower those sd's & es's got. I never would of know there was a problem with the lux's ignition if it wasn't for a chronograph. I would of just figured it didn't like the ammo I was testing. After the tuning/rework of the bolt, same ammo that shot 1/4" 5-shot groups @25yds. The initial tests were done in august (80*+) when tested. In january (31*) is when the work was done and the lux was re-tested, 5-shot groups @25yds with the same ammo.



Took the lux out later that year (above 65*) after the bolt work and played around @50yds. The lux used to do 1/2"/.500" @ 50yds. This time it did a 4 5-shot groups/20shots and averaged under .3" with the same ammo. That a 40% reduction in group size. Using a chronograph as a tool to test the mechanical consistency of a firearm is simply another way to use a chronograph.



And yes a chronograph can pick up on simple things like adjusting the torque on your action screws. If you ask the right questions you get the right answers.



When working up new loads:
When I work up loads for a firearm I'll do simple ladder tests with the powder weight and oal. When I find something that looks promising I load more of them to do more testing. If those look good then I'll break out the chronograph and fine tune the load. Crimps, oals, bullet diameters will make a difference with both jacketed and lead bullets and both will be seen on the target and the chronograph. The final thing I do with my reloads when loading lead bullets is test different alloys (harder/softer) looking for an increase in velocity. What that increase is telling me is that my bullet is using the powder more efficiently which in turn makes the load more consistent. Consistency ='s accuracy and without a chronograph I would of been hard pressed to know which alloy is the best for that load. I'd be going old school with allot of trial and error or simply deciding that that's all my reloads/firearms have in them. Rifles and jacketed bullets are the easiest to shoot/reload for. Pistols/revolvers and lead bullets on the other hand take a little more skill and a chonograph will take you to the promised land if you are smart enough to let it take you there. I've showed these loads before, they were line tuned with a chronograph and are now 1000's of them are being loaded/shot proving me with countless hours of quality range time.

A 38spl load that was worked up for shooting 12ga shotgun shells on the bowling pin table instead of bowling pins and shot at 50ft instead of 25ft. This is a cast lead 158gr hp load doing 900fps, 6-shot groups @50ft.



A 9mm target load for a nm 1911 for nra targets. This is a cast lead 125gr hp load doing 1100fps+, 10-shot group @50ft.



A 45acp target load for a nm 1911 for nra targets. This is a cast lead 200gr swc load doing 770fps, 10-shot group @50ft.



Was looking for a plinking load for the 44mag that would do minute of goldball/10-ring on nra targets/1 1/2" @25yds. Tested 6 different bullets/7 different powder combos looking for loads for a beater/truck gun/629. Managed to come up with 13 of them and quit testing.



A chronograph has been a huge help to me in tracking down firearms issues and fine tuning them mechanically along with refining load development. I've used the chrony brand chronograph for years and switched over to the Prochrono brand to give it a try. The Prochrono chronograph is allot less sensitive the the chrony chronographs. I highly recommend the prochrono brand, it's not much $$$ and it isn't a sensitive to muzzle blast and different light conditions as the chrony brand.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 9:29:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Honestly, chronographs are over-rated in their utility for the reloader. They are a fun adjunct to the hobby but are in no way necessary. I just felt it was important to put that out there.
View Quote


I don't mean to be a dick, but honestly, you're completely in the dark if you handload without a chronograph.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:09:24 AM EDT
I've got a CED M2 that has been working pretty well for me. I like being able to have the "brains" and readout screen right on the bench
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:12:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Poop3rscoop3r:

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.
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Originally Posted By Poop3rscoop3r:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Magnetospeed has been dead on for me. Using to use and very accurate.

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.

Between that and Lab Radar, it's the salad days of chronos.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:57:17 PM EDT
HOw often are you guys using your chronograph? I backed off my V3 deal I was gonna get because I couldn't imagine using it more than a couple times. Once I get the info I need..then what? I'm sure as hell not gonna let everyone else who's too cheap to get one use it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:05:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AR-Bossman:
HOw often are you guys using your chronograph? I backed off my V3 deal I was gonna get because I couldn't imagine using it more than a couple times. Once I get the info I need..then what? I'm sure as hell not gonna let everyone else who's too cheap to get one use it.
View Quote


Then you buy another gun in a different caliber and start it all over again!
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:13:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR-Bossman:
HOw often are you guys using your chronograph? I backed off my V3 deal I was gonna get because I couldn't imagine using it more than a couple times. Once I get the info I need..then what? I'm sure as hell not gonna let everyone else who's too cheap to get one use it.
View Quote


I use my Oehler more often than not, I'll go as far as to say I use it on over 90% of my shooting days. The data it provides is invaluable to the kind of experimenting/shooting I do.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:18:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 11:22:52 PM EDT by Trollslayer]
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Originally Posted By colt933:


I don't mean to be a dick, but honestly, you're completely in the dark if you handload without a chronograph.
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Originally Posted By colt933:
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Honestly, chronographs are over-rated in their utility for the reloader. They are a fun adjunct to the hobby but are in no way necessary. I just felt it was important to put that out there.


I don't mean to be a dick, but honestly, you're completely in the dark if you handload without a chronograph.



You're not in the dark in any way.

Notice in 3221's long post above, the pictures were all of group sizes. The metric used to tune was group size.

No chronograph can tell you anything about on-target performance. You have to shoot and analyze your targets for that. You have to shoot at distance, too, not just 100 yards (or 50 yards for bullseye pistol).

Chronos are fun but non-essential.

IMO, as a class, handloaders would be better served by pressure measurements than velocity. I say that because pressure is a safety issue.

Iconoclasm seems to be my specialty. BTW, I own two chromos and have used several others. It is, after all, a hobby.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:23:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AR-Bossman:
HOw often are you guys using your chronograph? I backed off my V3 deal I was gonna get because I couldn't imagine using it more than a couple times. Once I get the info I need..then what? I'm sure as hell not gonna let everyone else who's too cheap to get one use it.
View Quote



See, he gets it, too.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:33:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 12:09:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AJE:

I've seen those on rifles but I've never messed with one... I'm guessing you can't use them for pistols?

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Originally Posted By AJE:
Originally Posted By Poop3rscoop3r:
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
Magnetospeed has been dead on for me. Using to use and very accurate.

I had a chance to try out a Magnetospeed V3 sporter and I'll never use a traditional chronograph again.

I've seen those on rifles but I've never messed with one... I'm guessing you can't use them for pistols?


The only one I've used is the cheaper sporter version, which would work well for me. But no, I don't think they make one that will work on anything but a 6"+ barreled revolver. But I would be surprised if they didn't come out with a rail mount some day.

I need to chronograph some 300WSM loads since I ball parked a load based on similar powders and found an extremely accurate load, but have no idea what the speed is. I asked to borrow the Magnetospeed again rather than drag out my RCBS chrony.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 1:36:43 AM EDT
I have a PACT (w/ ir sensors) and a magnettospeed v3. the PACT hasn't been out of the box since I got the V3.

also I have used the V3 on my full sized glocks. they have a pistol rail adapter you can use for it (http://www.magnetospeed.com/collections/magnetospeed-accessories/products/v3-rail-adapter)
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:05:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kxlexus:
I just got my Magnetospeed V3 today. Anybody want to buy a Caldwell? Only used once
and the biggest POS I ever seen. It was damn lucky to get a ride home. A few years ago, I would
have shot that thing to pieces. Couldn't find a Labradar so I ordered the V3. Two days later I get an
email saying the Labradar is back in stock! I am sure the V3 will be good enough
View Quote


I've got a Caldwell and it's great.

I've used for thousands and thousands of rounds with great success. I've checked it against several other chronographs and it has proven to be accurate, repeatable, reliable, robust, and inexpensive.

It hardly ever misses recording a round and it's easy to set up.

I have no complaints with my Caldwell.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 6:29:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:



You're not in the dark in any way.

Notice in 3221's long post above, the pictures were all of group sizes. The metric used to tune was group size.
Again nothing could be further from the truth. That target was converted to metric for a "13MM" game on another website. Everyone says they can shoot 1/2" groups all day long with there $50 22lr and blammo ammo. They did a game where you had to shoot 4 5-shot groups with all of them less than 13mm (larger than 1/2"). For some odd reason the list of people/firearms that did make the 13mm club isn't very long.

No chronograph can tell you anything about on-target performance. You have to shoot and analyze your targets for that. You have to shoot at distance, too, not just 100 yards (or 50 yards for bullseye pistol).
That's why I use a chronograph and you don't. Hate to break it to you but you work up a load for the distance you are competing/shooting at.
Chronos are fun but non-essential.

IMO, as a class, handloaders would be better served by pressure measurements than velocity. I say that because pressure is a safety issue.

Iconoclasm seems to be my specialty. BTW, I own two chromos and have used several others. It is, after all, a hobby.
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Originally Posted By colt933:
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
Honestly, chronographs are over-rated in their utility for the reloader. They are a fun adjunct to the hobby but are in no way necessary. I just felt it was important to put that out there.


I don't mean to be a dick, but honestly, you're completely in the dark if you handload without a chronograph.



You're not in the dark in any way.

Notice in 3221's long post above, the pictures were all of group sizes. The metric used to tune was group size.
Again nothing could be further from the truth. That target was converted to metric for a "13MM" game on another website. Everyone says they can shoot 1/2" groups all day long with there $50 22lr and blammo ammo. They did a game where you had to shoot 4 5-shot groups with all of them less than 13mm (larger than 1/2"). For some odd reason the list of people/firearms that did make the 13mm club isn't very long.

No chronograph can tell you anything about on-target performance. You have to shoot and analyze your targets for that. You have to shoot at distance, too, not just 100 yards (or 50 yards for bullseye pistol).
That's why I use a chronograph and you don't. Hate to break it to you but you work up a load for the distance you are competing/shooting at.
Chronos are fun but non-essential.

IMO, as a class, handloaders would be better served by pressure measurements than velocity. I say that because pressure is a safety issue.

Iconoclasm seems to be my specialty. BTW, I own two chromos and have used several others. It is, after all, a hobby.


I do find it interesting that you'd read someone putting a metric measurement on a target as "TUNING" something. When I take my hard earned $$$ and buy a firearm I want it to be the best/tuned as it can be providing me with quality range time. When I spend my hard earned $$$ on reloading components, equipment, molds I want the best reloads I can make. I want to take the guess work out testing firearms and loads saving time and $$$. A chronograph does just that.

Like I said, if you ask the right questions you'll get the right answers. Like my pappy used to say at christmas time. "You got to be smarter than the box you're trying to open".
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 6:42:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bconawayjr:
I have the Prochrono Digital and have been very happy with it. Almost zero errors... Very consistent. Does not seem excessively sensitive to lighting conditions.

I spent a few extra bucks and got their wireless digilink system... Love it. Run everything through my iPad or iPhone, no more resetting strings or calling the range cold and email myself the data from the range...no more hand written notes.... Worth every penny.

Good buy in my book.
View Quote


I have the same setup and am also happy with it. For the limited amount of load development I do, it's all I need at a price I was able to afford.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:09:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 11:16:39 AM EDT by Trollslayer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 3221:
Notice in 3221's long post above, the pictures were all of group sizes. The metric used to tune was group size.

Again nothing could be further from the truth. That target was converted to metric for a "13MM" game on another website.


3221, when I used the term "metric", it means a thing you measure. It does not refer to millimeters or the metric system of units.

In your efforts to develop a load, you tune your load such that it minimizes group size. Group size is your metric (the thing you measure). You don't tune for a particular velocity. Although one could try to replicate factory ammo's velocity, in general, reloaders are better served trying to minimize group size. If you are after a velocity, then chrono velocity would be your metric.




... you work up a load for the distance you are competing/shooting at.

Yes, we agree on this, no matter the distance or sport - pistol or rifle.



I do find it interesting that you'd read someone putting a metric measurement on a target as "TUNING" something.

Again, you seem to have misunderstood my use of the term metric. Tuning is a process. Group size is the metric used when tuning.
View Quote



This discussion seems argumentative and counter-productive, to me. I will pursue it no further. Enjoy your sport and your recreational time and be safe.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 9:58:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mozella:


I've got a Caldwell and it's great.

I've used for thousands and thousands of rounds with great success. I've checked it against several other chronographs and it has proven to be accurate, repeatable, reliable, robust, and inexpensive.

It hardly ever misses recording a round and it's easy to set up.

I have no complaints with my Caldwell.
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Originally Posted By Mozella:
Originally Posted By kxlexus:
I just got my Magnetospeed V3 today. Anybody want to buy a Caldwell? Only used once
and the biggest POS I ever seen. It was damn lucky to get a ride home. A few years ago, I would
have shot that thing to pieces. Couldn't find a Labradar so I ordered the V3. Two days later I get an
email saying the Labradar is back in stock! I am sure the V3 will be good enough


I've got a Caldwell and it's great.

I've used for thousands and thousands of rounds with great success. I've checked it against several other chronographs and it has proven to be accurate, repeatable, reliable, robust, and inexpensive.

It hardly ever misses recording a round and it's easy to set up.

I have no complaints with my Caldwell.

Want to buy another?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:32:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:17:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Don't know if your joking or not, but want to sell is not allowed in threads.

Conduct code and all. You can sell in the EE, equipment exchange.
View Quote

No, I couldn't unload that POS on anybody and sleep good at night
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:26:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:51:24 PM EDT
Whatever, you took the whole thing wrong.but if it makes you feel powerful...
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:56:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:56:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:56:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 10:56:59 PM EDT by dryflash3]
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