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Posted: 4/30/2015 3:47:40 PM EDT
Got any recommendations to start with?
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 4:36:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2015 4:50:34 PM EDT by MonkTx]
Way too much info to go on.
Bullet/powder combo?  Or are we making a shopping list for you? If that's the case, I'm partial to 46 grains of BL-C(2) and hornady 150's.



 
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 8:03:00 PM EDT
buy some pulls like the 147's from longdayjake on the EE here and whatever powder you can come up with. they are good bullets for the price with hardly any evidence of being pulled

I load with Varget but that is pretty much unavailable now.

or these, 175gr SMK look a likes

these are new bullets and my 308 AR with a 1in 10 barrel loves them with 43.5 grains of Varget

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_114/1358295_Bulk_Newly_Manufactured__308_175_grain_BTHP_Match_bullets__250_for_1000_shipped.html
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 10:17:12 PM EDT
I wouldn't waste my time, powder or barrel life on fmj ball bullets, pulled or otherwise.

Buy a bulk box of 1000 Nosler 168 grain Custom Competition bullets for $232.00 and live happily ever after. Around .25 cents a bullet delivered to your door beats the pants off any fmj on the market.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 10:20:16 PM EDT
For what it's worth, .308 brass can't be loaded blindly without regards to head stamps, internal cases capacity and empty case weights.

Weigh your empty unprimed brass and keep them separated when developing load data. Heavy cases get the lightest powder charges.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 10:59:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I wouldn't waste my time, powder or barrel life on fmj ball bullets, pulled or otherwise.

Buy a bulk box of 1000 Nosler 168 grain Custom Competition bullets for $232.00 and live happily ever after. Around .25 cents a bullet delivered to your door beats the pants off any fmj on the market.
View Quote



Right here, but I like 155gr CC with 44gr. of IMR 4064.  It meters like crap, but I've got a bunch of it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 9:43:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I wouldn't waste my time, powder or barrel life on fmj ball bullets, pulled or otherwise.

Buy a bulk box of 1000 Nosler 168 grain Custom Competition bullets for $232.00 and live happily ever after. Around .25 cents a bullet delivered to your door beats the pants off any fmj on the market.
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I wouldn't waste my time, powder or barrel life on fmj ball bullets, pulled or otherwise.

Buy a bulk box of 1000 Nosler 168 grain Custom Competition bullets for $232.00 and live happily ever after. Around .25 cents a bullet delivered to your door beats the pants off any fmj on the market.


Not everybody wants to spend that kind of money on projectiles that are punching paper at 100 yards.  I've got a ton of ammo I made extra cheap so that I can take friends and gun newbs out shooting with and not bust my budget letting them waste ammo.  While not currently available,  I'm still sitting on a few more 147gr pulled projectiles that I paid ~ 9¢ a piece for.  I have some bulk 175gr bullets too for when I want to make a nice load for sailing out a distance,  but that's a different stash.  Yes,  you've got nicer bullets,  but I think OP was looking for a cheap shooting option.

Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
For what it's worth, .308 brass can't be loaded blindly without regards to head stamps, internal cases capacity and empty case weights.

Weigh your empty unprimed brass and keep them separated when developing load data. Heavy cases get the lightest powder charges.


While this is the best way to create a precision load,  I again disagree with the subject at hand.  As long as you aren't getting close to max load with powder,  I have not seen any reason to sort by head stamp and year for make 100 yard killing an afternoon rounds.  They aren't dangerous to shoot,  just not as accurate.  

I've got rounds that cost over $2 each to load in my garage and rounds that cost 13¢ a piece.  I can shoot both in the same range trip,  but don't blindly let somebody blast away $20 worth of ammo to have fun.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 12:36:32 PM EDT
I'm currently using 147gr fmjs (not pulled) and WC-844 powder. They are less than 2MOA from a M1A "Loaded"

I don't think you could do better for the same money.

Motor1
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 1:27:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Motor1:
I'm currently using 147gr fmjs (not pulled) and WC-844 powder. They are less than 2MOA from a M1A "Loaded"

I don't think you could do better for the same money.

Motor1
View Quote


How much do they cost? My experience with full metal jackets has been a disappointment. If I routinely shot 2 moa at 100 I could live with them, I get closer to 3" or 4" as a rule.

Most of the full metal jacket 147 grain bullets I see for sale are closer to .16 or .17 cents apiece. For a little more money 1 moa or less is the norm, not an anomaly. Money well spent in my book.


Link Posted: 5/1/2015 1:32:14 PM EDT
A full 2.0 grain reduction is needed when loaded Lake City, IMI (Israeli) or IVI (Canadian) 7.62x51mm brass. I never load "blasting" ammo. I shoot for groups. Every outing is an accuracy experiment for me.

A much lower standard is acceptable for fmj's.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 2:16:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:


How much do they cost? My experience with full metal jackets has been a disappointment. If I routinely shot 2 moa at 100 I could live with them, I get closer to 3" or 4" as a rule.

Most of the full metal jacket 147 grain bullets I see for sale are closer to .16 or .17 cents apiece. For a little more money 1 moa or less is the norm, not an anomaly. Money well spent in my book.


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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Originally Posted By Motor1:
I'm currently using 147gr fmjs (not pulled) and WC-844 powder. They are less than 2MOA from a M1A "Loaded"

I don't think you could do better for the same money.

Motor1


How much do they cost? My experience with full metal jackets has been a disappointment. If I routinely shot 2 moa at 100 I could live with them, I get closer to 3" or 4" as a rule.

Most of the full metal jacket 147 grain bullets I see for sale are closer to .16 or .17 cents apiece. For a little more money 1 moa or less is the norm, not an anomaly. Money well spent in my book.




I got lucky with the fmjs. They were new but not in their original boxes. I got them on gunbroker.

I agree most pulled bullets are a mixed bag. I also agree it's probably worth it to spend a little more if buying new to get a better bullet.

I wish I knew what brand the ones I have are.

I don't know what the current price is for WC-844 either but I do know it works very well in 4 different rifles in 3 different calibers.

Motor1
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 10:25:12 PM EDT
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165163765/hornady-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-150-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-with-cannelure
40 to 42 grains of 4064 in LC brass. I don't use the cannule as my oal is 2.800. Better accuracy. 20 cents per round.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 12:09:58 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bearcat24:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165163765/hornady-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-150-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-with-cannelure
40 to 42 grains of 4064 in LC brass. I don't use the cannule as my oal is 2.800. Better accuracy. 20 cents per round.
View Quote


My plinking load is 42 grains of 4064 under the Hornady 150 gr fmjbt's as well.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 2:58:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Way too much info to go on.

Bullet/powder combo?  Or are we making a shopping list for you? If that's the case, I'm partial to 46 grains of BL-C(2) and hornady 150's.
 
View Quote


No specific combo, just curious as to what the folks here use.


Thanks for the replies folks.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 7:27:52 AM EDT
I use once fired LC brass, 147gr FMJ pulls, and IMR4895 loaded to mag length for my M1A. I'm still working on a load for my AR10 since it does it like the lighter bullets as much.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 1:47:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bearcat24:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165163765/hornady-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-150-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-with-cannelure
40 to 42 grains of 4064 in LC brass. I don't use the cannule as my oal is 2.800. Better accuracy. 20 cents per round.
View Quote


Even in bulk, these are ~20c each + shipping.
You can get RMR branded 175grs for 25c/each shipped, and can sometimes find sales on Hornady BTHPs or Nosler Custom Comp bullets in the same range.
I'm with border patrol here - false economy in this case, IMO.  You'll have to trust me when I say I'm a cheapskate on components - I keep a spreadsheet on hand of the various pistol bullet companies prices by the case including shipping, and have dropped my per bullet cost in 9mm from 9.8x c/each using Montana Gold (great bullets) down to 6.x c/rd using Bayou HiTek coated by the case...but in the case of .308, I'd rather spend a couple more cents, although I'm sure the Hornady's above are decent...as far as FMJs go.
Some other options:
Hornady 155gr BTHP Match
Hornady 168gr BTHP Match
Nosler 155gr BTHP
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 1:26:55 PM EDT
Another option, perhaps of interest if you want a reduced recoil load:












"The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot"








By C.E. Harris, Revised 2-16-94








My success in economizing by using up leftover shotshell powder has changed my



approach to handloading.  I had a caddy of Red Dot, and no longer reloaded



shotshells, so asked myself, "what can I do with it?"  My shooting is now



mostly high-power rifle. I needed several hundred rounds a week to practice



offhand, reloading, and working the bolt in sitting and prone rapid, but didn't



want to burn out my barrel or my wallet.  Powder used to be cheap, but today is



$20/lb. (or more), so cost is a factor in component choice.








I used to ignore pistol or shotgun powders in reduced rifle loads for the usual



reasons: the risk of accidental double-charges, fears of erratic ignition, and



concerns with maintaining accuracy, and reduced utility with a low-power load.



Still, the caddy of Red Dot kept "looking at me" from the corner. Would it



work? Looking at data in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No. 1 and the Lyman Cast



Bullet Handbook suggested it would, so I tried it, much to my delight!  Red Dot



is bulky, compared to the usual rifle powders used in .30-'06-size cases. It



occupies more powder space in typical charges than common "reduced load" rifle



powders, such as #2400, IMR4227, IMR4198 or RL-7. The lower bulk density of Red



Dot adequately addresses my safety concerns because it makes an accidental



double charge far less likely.








After considerable experimentation, my friends and I found "The Load" IS 13



grains of Hercules Red Dot, in any FULL SIZED rifle case of .30 cal. or larger.



"The Load" has distinct advantages over more expensive alternatives, within



certain limitations, which are:








1. The case must be LARGER than the .300 Savage or .35 Remington.








2. The rifle must be of MODERN (post 1898) design, suitable for smokeless



powder, with a bore size of .30 cal. or larger.








3. The bullet weight must be within the NORMAL range for the given cartridge.








4. Inert fillers such as Dacron, kapok or are NOT RECOMMENDED! (Nor are they



necessary).








Within these restrictions I have now engraved in stone, "The Load" works! The



bullet may be either jacketed or cast. Gaschecked cast bullets required in the



.30 cals., otherwise you will get leading, but plainbased ones work fine in the



8mm Mauser or larger.








"The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65



Argentine, .308 Win., 7.62x54R Russian, .30-'06, 8x57 and .45-70



(strong-actioned rifles such as the 1886 Winchester or 1895 Marlin -- 12 grs.



is maximum for 400 gr. bullets in the Trapdoor Springfield -- Ed.) Though I



have not tried it, I have no doubt that "The Load" would work well in other



cartridges fitting these parameters, such as the .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester,



.375 H&H or .444 Marlin, based on RCBS and Lyman published data.








"The Load" fills 50% or more of a .308 Win or .30-'06 case. The risk of an



accidental double charge is greatly reduced, because the blunder is immediately



obvious if you visually check, powder fill on EVERY CASE, as you should



whenever handloading!  A bulky powder measures more uniformly, because normal



variation in the measured volume represents a smaller percentage of the charge



weight.








Red Dot's granulation is somewhat less coarse than other flake powders of



similar burning rate, such as 700-X, which aids metering.  Its porous, uncoated



flakes are easily ignited with standard primers.  So-called "magnum" primers do



no harm in cases larger than the .30-'06, but are neither necessary nor



recommended in smaller ones. I DO NOT recommend pistol primers in reduced rifle



loads, because weak primers may cause erratic ignition, and their thinner cups



can perforate more easily, causing gas leakage and risk of personal injury!








The velocities obtained with 13 grs. of Red Dot appear mild, but "The Load" is



no pipsqueak!  In a case like the .308 or .30-'06, you get (from a 24" sporter



barrel) about 1450 f.p.s. with a 200- gr. cast bullet, 1500 with a 170-gr., or



1600 with a 150-gr. cast load.  "The Load" is fully comparable to "yesterday's



deer rifle", the .32-40, and provides good expansion of cheap, soft alloys



(10-13 BHN) at woods ranges.  Jacketed bullet velocities with "The Load" are



about 120-150 f.p.s. less than a lubricated lead bullet of the same weight.








Longer-barreled military rifles pick up a few feet per second, but "The Load"



starts to slow down in barrels over 28", such as the M91 Moisin-Nagant and long



Krags or 98a Mausers.








My preferred alloy in the .30 cals. is a mixture of 3-5 lbs. of .22 backstop



scrap to 1 lb. of salvaged linotype.  Wheelweights also work well, as do soft



"Scheutzen" alloys such as 1:25 tin/lead. in bores of 8 mm or larger.  "The



Load" drives soft- cast .30-cal. to 8 mm bullets fast enough to get expansion,



but without fragmenting. These out-penetrate factory .30-30 softpoints, and



kill medium game up to 150 lbs. well at short ranges up to 100 yards, when



placed accurately. In medium and large bores like the .375 H&H or .45-70, "The



Load" gives typical black powder ballistics for the bore. A 255-265 gr. cast



bullet in the .375 H&H approximates the .38-55 at 1330 f.p.s. Soft 300- 405-gr.



cast bullets are pushed at 1300-1350 f.p.s. from a 22" barrel .45-70, sporter



are very effective on deer at woods ranges.  Cast bullets over .35 cal. do not



have to expand appreciably to work well on game if blunt and heavy for their



caliber.








The Load" works well with jacketed bullets, giving somewhat lower velocities



than with cast lead, due to less effective obturation and greater friction in



the bore. The 85-gr. or 100-gr. Hornady or 90-gr. Sierra JHP for the .32 H&R



Mag. revolver, or the Remington 100-gr. .32-20 softpoint bullet become mild,



but destructive varmint loads at 1600 f.p.s. from a .308 or '06.








If you substitute a stiffly jacketed 110-gr. .30 Carbine softpoint bullet,



designed for higher velocities than imparted by "The Load",  you have a



non-destructive "coup de gras", small game or wild turkey load which shoots



close to your deer rifle's normal zero, but at 25 yards! A more accurate and



effective small game or varmint load uses a flat-nosed 150-gr. pr 170-gr.



.30-30 bullet instead.  These don't expand at the 1400-1450 f.p.s. obtained



with "The Load", but their larger frontal area improves killing power compared



to roundnoses or spitzers.








I have use pulled GI .30 caliber Ball, and Match bullets with "The Load" for



cheap 200-yd. NMC boltgun practice. Accuracy is equal to arsenal loads, but I



use my 600-yard sight dope at 200 yards.  I expect 5-6" ten-shot, iron-sight



groups at 200 yards using M2 or M80 pulled bullets and about 3-4" for the M72



or M118 Match bullets. I use these mostly in bolt-action rifles, but they can



be single-loaded for offhand or slow-fire practice ion the Garand as well.



These .30 cal. pulls shoot fine in the .303 British or 7.62x54 Russian, despite



their being a bit small, because the fast-burning Red Dot upsets them into the



deeper grooves. The 173-gr. Match .30 cal. boattail bullets may not shoot as



well at these low velocities as lighter flat bases in the 12" twist .308 Win.



barrels, but they do quite well in ten- inch twist barrels such as in the '06,



7.62 Russian, .303 British and 7.65 Argentine.








The longer bore time of these 1400 f.p.s. (typical 170-180-gr. jacketed load



velocity) practice loads makes errors in follow- through apparent, a great



practice and training aid. The light recoil and lower report of these loads



helps transition Junior tyro shooters from the .22 rimfire to the service rifle



without being intimidated by the noise and recoil.








Zeroing is no problem in the M1 or M14, because "The Load" shoots into the



ten-ring of the reduced SR target at 200 yards from your M1 or M14 rifle at



using your normal 600 yard sight dope!   The somewhat greater wind deflection



blows you into the "8" ring at 200 yards with the same conditions you would



expect to do so at 600 yards with M118 Match ammunition. This provides your



Junior shooters some useful wind-doping practice.








The economy of a lighter charge is obvious.  A full power .30-'06 load using 50



grs. of an IMR powder like 4064 costs 10 cents a pop, just for powder, at 140



rounds per pound (if you are lucky enough to find new powder for $14/lb.).



Substituting 13 grs. of Red Dot gets 538 rounds per pound at a cost of 2.6



cents which is a savings of over $7 per hundred rounds in powder alone! Greater



savings are possible if you get the best price and buy powder by the caddy.








Velocity and point of impact of "The Load" is not noticeably affected by



varying powder position in the case. I shoot them either slow fire, or clip-fed



and flipped through rapid-fire in the boltgun with equal accuracy.  Red Dot is



very clean burning and is economical both on the basis of its lower charge



weight, and its lower basic cost per pound compared to other "rifle" powders.








Best of all, using a shotshell powder I already have reduces the kinds of



powder I keep and eliminates the need for a special "reduced load" powder. This



approach is ideal for rifle shooters who are also shotgunners, since almost



everybody who reloads for 12-ga. probably has a keg of Red Dot already!








I now realize it is foolish to use heavier charges of more expensive powder for



routine practice, varmint or small game loads in my center-fire rifles. I



seldom shoot at over 200 yards, and don't enjoy wearing out expensive target



barrels unnecessarily.  Since I already have good sight dope and need to work



more on technique and save my remaining barrel accuracy life for matches.








I am glad I found the way to get alot more shooting for the dollar. Economical



powder choice IS possible, and my reloading has become less complicated and



more enjoyable simple since I realized I could do most of my rifle shooting



with 13 grains of Red Dot!








~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~~~~~~~~







I just loaded up a bunch of these this past weekend in Hornady .308 brass, with CCI LRPs, and Oregon Trail 165 grain cast bullets sized to .309. A couple weeks ago I loaded 50 rounds, but used .30 M2 Ball projectiles. These will be shot in my Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle.





 
 
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