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Posted: 6/20/2005 1:55:38 PM EDT
Does anyone use this caliber anymore? I find it harder and harder to find ammo for it. ANyone carry it? Or just use it for fun at the range?
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 2:01:29 PM EDT
Unless you are just trying to piss off the person you shoot don't buy it. My cousin got shot twice with a .25 and still beat the piss out of the guy who shot him.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 2:40:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2005 2:41:51 PM EDT by M4-guy]
I have a Beretta 950 Jetfire in 25ACP. Haven't used it in years.
I think the round is slowly dying, as I haven't seen any new handguns built for it in a long time. (Though, admittedly, I haven't been looking at handguns much since the onset of BRD.)

The round just doesn't seem to have much going for it, especially going against 22 rimfire magnums, which are still less expensive.

.....................................Wt.......V........ E
25 ACP.......................45.......815........66.3
22 LR Fed RN..............40.......1255.....139.7
22 WMR Fed FMJ........40.........1910.....323.6

From here.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 2:45:54 PM EDT


just another useless caliber imo--where the ammo costs too much not that available (compared to .22lr) and teh power sucks
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 2:49:25 PM EDT
Only thing it has over a .22 rimfire is more dependable ignition. How many times have ya ran across .22 rounds that take multiple attempts to fire compared to the same thing with centerfire rounds? Rimfire priming just isn't as dependable.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 2:50:17 PM EDT
I have a Beretta Jetfire too. It's my pocket gun. I realize it's an anemic round but it still has a purpose.

Mouse guns beat the hell out of foul language.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 4:23:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Unless you are just trying to piss off the person you shoot don't buy it. My cousin got shot twice with a .25 and still beat the piss out of the guy who shot him.





Let ME shoot you twice with a .25acp & see how well you beat up anyone, much less me.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 6:23:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2005 6:23:49 PM EDT by Sukebe]
I saw a guy who took a .25 square to the forehead from inside the room range. It broke the skin and left a nasty goose egg. Otherwise, he was fine.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 8:06:31 PM EDT
I personally know two people who died shortly after single .25 acp hits to the head. YMMV.
Link Posted: 6/20/2005 8:13:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-guy:
I have a Beretta 950 Jetfire in 25ACP. Haven't used it in years.
I think the round is slowly dying, as I haven't seen any new handguns built for it in a long time. (Though, admittedly, I haven't been looking at handguns much since the onset of BRD.)

The round just doesn't seem to have much going for it, especially going against 22 rimfire magnums, which are still less expensive.

.....................................Wt.......V........ E
25 ACP.......................45.......815........66.3
22 LR Fed RN..............40.......1255.....139.7
22 WMR Fed FMJ........40.........1910.....323.6

From here.



66.3 my ass! I have Federal Hp ammo that is rated the same as 9x19mm.
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 8:19:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2005 8:22:43 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
Problem with those energy charts is that they're comparing the .25 from a 2" bbl to .22 LR and Mag from a rifle barrel. I just sold my pre-68 satin nickled Baby Browning recently and then hadn't used it in years. With the down sizing of DAO 32 guns it cut into the 25s area. Now mid sized 32 aren't avaible but you can get .40 and 9x19 in that size gun. JMB designed the 25 in what 1906 or so and its did its job for a small pocket pistol at the time but now his earlier .32 is killing it (Seecamps/Keltecs/NAA)

CD
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 8:27:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 455SD:
I personally know two people who died shortly after single .25 acp hits to the head. YMMV.



Yeah, you and about a gazillion other people either saw that same thing happen or they have a friend or a friend of a friend or a distant cousin twice removed who saw it with their own eyes.

No really.
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 1:52:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 4:25:42 PM EDT
Responded on a call last summer where a guy was hit once in the chest with a 25acp, he was DRT we didnt even code him. saw it with my own two eyes.
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 6:12:06 PM EDT
your more "affordable" firearm makers still turn out plenty of blowback operated zinc-cast slide .25s. Some have lasers!
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 7:38:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By 455SD:
I personally know two people who died shortly after single .25 acp hits to the head. YMMV.



Yeah, you and about a gazillion other people either saw that same thing happen or they have a friend or a friend of a friend or a distant cousin twice removed who saw it with their own eyes.

No really.



Believe what you want, but I attended both of the funerals.

One was a guy who got caught with another man's wife and took one in the temple. The other was my brother's best friend who was carjacked and shot once in the back of the head. Both died on the scene.
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 1:21:14 AM EDT
What is with this site in the past few months. I post a real question and bring it here to keep that shit in GD. Guys take your crap elsewhere. THanks
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 3:13:02 PM EDT
I personally wouldn't think of carrying a .25 ACP, or a .32 although i do occasionally put a little .380 ACP in my pocket when i'm not armed. The point being that there are better choices nowadays.

Yes you can die from a .25 ACP, hell you can probably die from a Wrist Rocket too...but i digress.

Nope I don't carry one. I would like to get a post-war berretta though if i could figure out what model Bond carried. I think it might be a fun plinker if i could find ammo cheaply enough, i sure wouldn't want to reload for it.
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 8:28:40 PM EDT
Curt,

Believe Bond carried a 950 Beretta. But I'm no Bond expert.

CD
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 8:45:50 PM EDT
Every gun ever made is a compromise on something. The same goes for every caliber.

A .25 ACP is a puny round, but it's still a goddamned gun. Better than a knife in most cases.

Shoot someone with a 40mm in the foot, and they'll probably live. Shoot someone with a .25ACP in the eye or ear, and they'll probably die. Everything depends on all sorts of shit.

Even a .45ACP is a compromise and a poor choice for self defense compared to other things. Dont try to make this guy feel like a retard for having a .25

Link Posted: 6/23/2005 3:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DonkeyKongSucked:
A .25 ACP is a puny round, but it's still a goddamned gun. Better than a knife in most cases.






I would disagree, at anything from contact idistance to say 20 feet (tueller drill) my bet would be on a knife wielder, providing he knows how to use it. At anything beyond that i doubt you could score a solid enough hit on a moving target before he was on you.
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 7:58:45 AM EDT
On rare occasions I will pack my Beretta 21A .25 pistol. It has 9 shots in total ( w/one in the chamber) .

It is a great deep cover gun . And is pretty accurate out to 10 yards .

"I would disagree, at anything from contact idistance to say 20 feet (tueller drill) my bet would be on a knife wielder, providing he knows how to use it. At anything beyond that i doubt you could score a solid enough hit on a moving target before he was on you."

Curt , I think your drill is more towards a Cop pulling his gun and firing . If I have my .25 in my hand and some rushes me they will be full of little holes before they get on me.

If its holstered or hidden on your person then yeah A knife attacker would get you probably .

I think the .25 is attributed to more firearms deaths in this country than any other caliber. Except maybe the .22. I think I read that somewhere once . Anyone back me up ?

I call my Beretta my 8 in the face gun .
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 6:39:49 PM EDT
Bond carried a .32 or .380 Beretta in the beginning of "Dr. No".

It's WAY to big to be a 950.
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 8:41:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chuckles5492:
Bond carried a .32 or .380 Beretta in the beginning of "Dr. No".

It's WAY to big to be a 950.


Really? I thought he always carried a PPK?
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 9:50:32 PM EDT
In the first Bond film (Dr. No) Q replaced Bond's Beretta 950 with a Walther PPK.
Link Posted: 6/24/2005 4:22:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Curt,

Believe Bond carried a 950 Beretta. But I'm no Bond expert.

CD



By jove I believe you're right! The 950 was originally produced in 1950 so that would have been about the time that fleming was writing the Bond Books. Thanks!

I have a WWII PPK in .32 ACP,,just need to get a Burns-Martin speed holster.
Link Posted: 6/24/2005 5:15:00 AM EDT
I will assume you are familar with the .25acp and its limitations so I will not add my .02
The wall marts and the like in my area usually have win white box.
Ammoman has soup to nuts on the 25 as do most net outfits-Sportsmans Guide,Cheeper than Dirt,Natchez,Midway or whatever. Usually the ammo guy at the gunshow will have something laying around.
I wouldn't bother paying extra for the top shelf bullets (can be pricey)One way to think on the 25acp is that even for self defence Full metal jacket is the way to go because penetration is so weak as is you don't want to reduce what little it has.

I likely have 5 or 6 boxes laying around and I haven't ever owned one.(bought at tag sales or whatever when grabbing boxes or buckets of stuff that was a good deal.

I have a buddy who only shoots rimfire now and then (very crazy schedual,claims no free time) who owns a real nice baby browning that I can't get him to shoot.He thinks it is too collectable (his grandfather or someone in the family gave it to him). It isn't pristine,just in real nice shape,and I keep telling him that as long as he is carefull not to abuse it it will not hurt the value.He claims he wouldn't be able to shoot it as well as his buckmark and I tell him the point is to have fun shooting grandpa's gun because it is such a cool little piece. I still hold out hope-----.
Link Posted: 6/24/2005 2:36:57 PM EDT
I have a .25 Haenel Suhl Schmeisser. Well made, six shot, 1920s era. An uncle got it from a German paratrooper in Italy. I have it and his gravity knife. The gun is reliable, accurate, and I don't like to carry it cause of the age and safety set up. Just am not comfortable with an eighty year old gun loaded in my pocket. Would not be in my first round of choices but would prefer it to a rock.

rk
Link Posted: 6/24/2005 10:40:55 PM EDT
I was shot by a .25ACP when I was 18 ( a couple wanabe gangstas playing around ) and didn't know I was shot at first. A few minutes later, I noticed my arm was itching and then found a little streak of dried up blood on it. The closest healing experience to it I can think of was when I stepped on a nail and walked around with an itching foot for a week and a half.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 6:28:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 10:22:39 PM EDT
That's a good way to look at it.
I personally can't find any advantages the .25ACP may have over the .22LR.
BTW.
I also met a man in Liuesiana who was shot between the eyes at point blank range ( over the counter ) by a Lorcin L-380 and had the bullet bounce off his fourhead.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 2:49:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
A .25 ACP can certainly kill, and has done so many times. But a caliber/gun combo should not be selected based on how often it works, but by how often it FAILS to work. .25 ACP has a poor history when you look at it that way.

Given the modern, tiny .32s and .380s on the market, there's very little call for a .25 ACP anymore.

-Troy



I agree, i'd go on to also include the times that a guy died after messing up the guy who shot him. In a self defense situation your not trying to kill the guy..eventually, you're trying to STOP him NOW.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 7:55:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 44-Canon:
That's a good way to look at it.
I personally can't find any advantages the .25ACP may have over the .22LR.
BTW.
I also met a man in Liuesiana who was shot between the eyes at point blank range ( over the counter ) by a Lorcin L-380 and had the bullet bounce off his fourhead.



The advantage of the .25 over the .22 is in igintion reliablilty and feeding. Centerfire FMJ vs. rimfire softnose. .22 LR from the same less then 2" bbl won't expand either (lighter weight and faster buller vs. heavier/slower).

CD
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 8:07:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2005 8:08:05 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Troy:
... Given the modern, tiny .32s and .380s on the market, there's very little call for a .25 ACP anymore.

-Troy



Bingo. Why carry a .25 when there are .32s/.380s as small as the traditional .25s were? Marginally better is still better, especially in "pocket guns" IMHO. Similarly, many who carried .380s for years have now switched to 9mms as small as their .380s used to be.

I actually used to carry a .25 (mostly as back-up to a larger pistol) when it was the most comfortable thing for me to have in my pocket all-day, every-day - those days are past. And I personally saw more than one person die from .22 & .25 wounds* when I was working my way through undergrad in an ER/Trauma Unit in north Birmingham, but neither would be my first choice for a pocket-pistol today.

(* FTR, I also saw one very stout fellow survive 5 rounds to the back (all upper torso hits) from a .357 at close range - shot by a relative at a family reunion, no less. He was discharged a few weeks later. )
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 8:11:37 AM EDT
I like my collection of Raven 25s
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 8:42:21 AM EDT
While I'm no advocate of the .25 it's better than a .22 lr in the same size gun.

The stats listed above for the .22's are for rifle-length barrls.

I've personally chrono'd .25's & .22's side by side -

.25: 50 grain bullet @ 850 fps.

.22 lr HV: 40 gr bullet @ 750 - 800 fps.

Add in the more reliable centerfire ignition & deeper penetrating FMJ bullet & the .25 wins hands down.

Stick to FMJ's in these calibers. Anything else has inadequate penetration (actually so does FMJ, but it's still more than the HP's).
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 8:46:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By curt:

Originally Posted By DonkeyKongSucked:
A .25 ACP is a puny round, but it's still a goddamned gun. Better than a knife in most cases.






I would disagree, at anything from contact idistance to say 20 feet (tueller drill) my bet would be on a knife wielder, providing he knows how to use it. At anything beyond that i doubt you could score a solid enough hit on a moving target before he was on you.



Well, how about, since we're adding quantifiers, the guy with the .25ACP was Merlin, and he magick'd that bullet into the left eyeball, and around the brain, and out the right eye socket?

Link Posted: 6/28/2005 10:41:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2005 10:42:11 AM EDT by TxLewis]
I had a .25 semi auto

Took it too my buddies place.

We shot it at a tree.

He went to where the bullet hit.

Pulled the bullet out of the tree with his fingertips (it was sticking halfway out, from the entryside)

He took the gun from me.

We drove to a gunstore.

He bought me a ruger 9mm that day.

Told me he did not want me pissing anyone off by shooting them with the .25

Still have that gun, it still shoots great. (the ruger p85, not the .25)

TXL
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 2:57:26 PM EDT
Bee-sting caliber.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 3:11:59 PM EDT
I've said it here before, but I don't mind repeating the story.

My brother and a crippled man he was taking care of were the victims of a home invasion robbery back in "85". The first thing they did was shoot the crippled man in the face and neck several times, then in the process of trying to get more money they put my brother on his knees and shot him "Muzzle-to-Meat" in the back of the head, my brother fell over and played dead. Really though the bullet had just fragmented and slid under the skin on his skull down into his neck, it's still there.

The Crippled guy also survived and later died in a nursing home from complications from the fact that he was a quadraplegic.


Yes, Maybe some people get killed by .25 ACP's but I won't carry one.
Link Posted: 6/28/2005 3:22:16 PM EDT
I only have 9mm's.

I got rid of my .45, .38, and .40's

Link Posted: 6/28/2005 5:23:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 5:23:31 AM EDT
Yes, Bond did have a 950. What ever film was in Jamaica. Dr. No?
The 950 in .25 is much more reliable than a .22lr. It’s single action with a tip-up barrel takes a little getting use to if you have been shooting modern autos like Glock or Sig. Also 8 rounds in the mag is sufficient. Winchester makes a personal defense round in .25 and you can pick up Blazer practice ammo for $5 a box. If you need a mouse gun the 950 is great.
Link Posted: 6/30/2005 5:39:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By M4-guy:
I have a Beretta 950 Jetfire in 25ACP. Haven't used it in years.
I think the round is slowly dying, as I haven't seen any new handguns built for it in a long time. (Though, admittedly, I haven't been looking at handguns much since the onset of BRD.)

The round just doesn't seem to have much going for it, especially going against 22 rimfire magnums, which are still less expensive.

.....................................Wt.......V........ E
25 ACP.......................45.......815........66.3
22 LR Fed RN..............40.......1255.....139.7
22 WMR Fed FMJ........40.........1910.....323.6

From here.



66.3 my ass! I have Federal Hp ammo that is rated the same as 9x19mm.



What 9x19 would that be?
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 12:28:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 9:17:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-guy:
In the first Bond film (Dr. No) Q replaced Bond's Beretta 950 with a Walther PPK.



I believe Q mentions that the Beretta "is a fine gun. . . for a ladies handbag"

/just sayin
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 10:46:35 AM EDT
Of course he also says that the 7.65 mm PPK packs a punch like a brick through a plate glass window or something to that effect
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 3:13:38 PM EDT
Bond used a PPK, I think it was in .380, though in the last movie he switched to the Walther P-99....
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 8:48:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:54:48 AM EDT
A .25 would not be my first or second or even third choice for a self defense round but since the majority of "incidents" end as soon as a weapon is presented and even if shots are fired there is the off chance a .25 will get the job done I would have to say a mouse gun like that would be far better than a harsh word or foul language.

A .25 vs. carrying a sharp rock? I think that might be a toss up.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 6:32:14 PM EDT
I'v had my .25 in my front pocket all day. I carry what I have. I have been puting money away for a nice keltec in 380 apc. I also have not been more than 30 feet away from a REAL gun all day also. A 9mm in the house and a SKS in the garage.
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