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Posted: 1/5/2003 7:57:24 PM EST
Tired of hearing that the only reason the Israeli's use the M-16 is because they get them free?
Check out the official Israeli Army web site.
Hint: it ain't because their free.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/m16vsak47.htm
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:00:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:24:23 PM EST
Thats a good website. Take the time to check out all the weapons listed there.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:54:50 PM EST
I find it weird that Israelis don't use HK MP5 smg. Any reason for this? Because Israeli Jews are against buying German products?
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 9:09:30 PM EST
Probably because the abundance of UZI's there and its was the Israel who designed the UZI

They dont mind buying German weapons, the IDF main battle tank is German.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 9:56:03 PM EST
Good read. I was surprised that in a shootout between the IMI Galil and the M16, the M16 won out. But I think cost is still a factor, consider:

Let's review the situation today. The IDF no longer receives M16 for free. instead Israel receives from the U.S. few billion dollars per year of Foreign Military Support (FMS). However, the catch is that most of this money must be spent in Dollars back in the U.S. Also, for several reasons most of the IDF orders are registered as U.S. Army orders. This allows the IDF to largely enjoy from the quantity discounts the U.S. Army receives on its large orders.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 10:09:08 PM EST
That was a good site i will have to spend more time there.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 12:09:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2003 2:15:06 AM EST by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
They dont mind buying German weapons, the IDF main battle tank is German.



Must have mis-read that somewhere M4. The Merkava series of Main Battle Tanks are completely designed and manufactured in Israel. The Merkava II and III models are armed with a copy of the German 120mm smoothbore tank gun.

Graffiti,
Israel was cranking out Uzi's in the 50's before the MP5 existed. The gun works, and works reliably in the desert. They had no reason to pay the germans to obtain a good submachinegun.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 2:01:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Graffiti:
I find it weird that Israelis don't use HK MP5 smg. Any reason for this? Because Israeli Jews are against buying German products?



As many have pointed out, the Israelis had plenty of functional Uzis. They. like many militaries, have moved away from 9mm subguns towards short 5.56 carbine/SMGs.

What is really interesting is that the West Germans used the Uzi; it was the firing port weapon for the Marder IFV and was produced under license by companies in Germany and by FN for that purpose. My memory is a little rusty, but I think the basis of issue was something like 8 Uzis per Marder, which was the standard IFV for West German Panzer Grenadier units. I don't know if they still use them, but it was a standard up into the early 1990s, at least.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 11:06:29 AM EST
I still don't see any evidence that Israeli's don't use the M16 because they get a lot of them for free/cheap. They had a ton of free M16's and they had a lot of Galil's they had made and free AKs - so they picked the better of the two systems they had laying around.

It does not make clear that they evaluated lots of other assault rifles - only that they chose the free/cheap american design over their own free Galil's or free AKs. Did they consider the HK rifle or the SIG rifle? Probably not, because they had so many cheap/free alternatives.

Nothing wrong with choosing something cost-effective - but it's still not clear that they chose the M-16 because it is the best system available.

Link Posted: 1/6/2003 9:28:20 PM EST
i think its largely a cost issue. Govt replacement cost for an M16 is right around $400. israel cannot possibly produce galils on the scale that the US produces M16s. economies of scale. also the galil is a hoss. i wouldnt want to hump one around in the desert. while in israel the only galils i saw were micro models issued as PDWs for armomr crews and i saw not ONE SINGLE orlite mag.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 11:54:16 PM EST
thanks for the link, i was just in a debate on that subject.

-Mark
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:02:16 AM EST
The word I get from Israel is that the M16 is far more popular than the Galil with the troops in the field, particularly the various carbine or M4 types they are switching to. Easier to carry, easier to shoot, and sexier looking (and yes that counts, too). Very few M16A1s or 2s left in service. They gave most or all of the A1s to the Palestinian police, as part of the arrangement Clinton brokered.

Most of the remaining Galils in service seem to be w/units in the north of the country, though that may well be part of a phasing out by unit plan.

As I long time owner of a Galil, an AR15, an M4gery, and an XM177E2 clone, I can tell you that if I had to go into the field again, I'd take the Galil ONLY if I was in a partisan type situation w/no possibility of repair or replacement of my weapon. As a regular grunt in an organized unit, give me an AR
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:27:41 AM EST

Let's review the situation today. The IDF no longer receives M16 for free. instead Israel receives from the U.S. few billion dollars per year of Foreign Military Support (FMS). However, the catch is that most of this money must be spent in Dollars back in the U.S.


I love this part. We don't give them M-16s for "free". We just give them billions of dollars of which most of it they have to spend in America. So what is the fucking difference ?
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:50:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 7:53:29 AM EST by TimJ]



I love this part. We don't give them M-16s for "free". We just give them billions of dollars of which most of it they have to spend in America. So what is the fucking difference ?



You and I are paying for them.

I wonder.....if Barret is making the Tavor, can Israel buy Tavors from Barret using that money?????????
Those clever bastiges.

Edit-Whoops, I see that very thing is suggested on the referred page. Guess I'm not that clever.
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