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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:49:56 PM EDT
I was looking for a M39 online from the vendor list here.

I saw one vendor selling M39's and they were listed in both the C&R section and Antique section of the website.  Of course I realize the C&R ones require 03 FFL but why are some of the same rifles listed as Antiques and do no require anything except a driver's licence to purchase?

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:05:54 PM EDT

Quoted:
I was looking for a M39 online from the vendor list here.

I saw one vendor selling M39's and they were listed in both the C&R section and Antique section of the website.  Of course I realize the C&R ones require 03 FFL but why are some of the same rifles listed as Antiques and do no require anything except a driver's licence to purchase?



The date cut off for antiques is January 1, 1899. Anything prior to that date is an antique.

If you have a 03 FFL then you also have the various firearms books sent by the BATF. In one of them you'll find the Gun Control Act of 1968. Within the text of CGA68 you'll find the definition of antique and modern and curio-relic firearms. If you don't have a 03FFL then read on.....

Mosin-Nagant rifles were manufactured from 1891 into the 1950s in carbine form. Those manufactured prior to January 1, 1899 would be classified as antiques and require no 4473 for transfer. How do you tell when it was manufactured you ask?  Most have a date stamped on the underside of the rear receiver tang such as 898r which means the year 1898.

Dutch
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:54:07 PM EDT
I wish the GunsandAmmo.com website was working.

The question came out of visiting their website.  They had many Finnish M39's listed on their website.  Most of them are dated in the 1940's as far as I could tell.  For some reason some of them fall in their C&R section while others fall in the Antique section.

Thanks for the input.  I was just wondering if GunsandAmmo.com had it listed correctly.

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:12:10 PM EDT
Some are also antiqued based on obsolescence of their calibers too.
Not antiqued but rather classified as non-guns. Which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:10:56 PM EDT

Quoted:
Some are also antiqued based on obsolescence of their calibers too.
Not antiqued but rather classified as non-guns. Which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing.


No. Antique is based purely on Jan. 1, 1899. Nothing else. And even if antiques fire an obsolescent caliber they are _never_ classified as "non-guns". There is no such thing as a "non-gun" in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Read the Gun Control Act entirely and you'll clear this up.

Dutch
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:19:23 PM EDT

Quoted:
They had many Finnish M39's listed on their website.  Most of them are dated in the 1940's



You're confusing receiver manufacture date with the barrel date. They aren't the same thing. The dates on Mosin barrels do not always reflect the date the rifle was built, especially for Finn Mosins which is what we're talking about.

A Finn m/39 can have a receiver that was originally manufactured in 1895 in Imperial Russia but the Finns captured it in 1940 during the Winter War and rebuilt it as a m/39 and the barrel has 1942 on it. As far as BATF is concerned the rifle's age is dated to 1895 because the receiver is the controlling part when date of manufacture is determined. As long as that 1895r or 895r is on the underside of the receiver tang its an antique. If there's no date there then you can't prove its an antique.

The whole big deal about this is antiques do not require a 4473 for transfer of ownership. That's it. BFD .

Dutch
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 4:50:03 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Some are also antiqued based on obsolescence of their calibers too.
Not antiqued but rather classified as non-guns. Which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing.


No. Antique is based purely on Jan. 1, 1899. Nothing else. And even if antiques fire an obsolescent caliber they are _never_ classified as "non-guns". There is no such thing as a "non-gun" in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Read the Gun Control Act entirely and you'll clear this up.

Dutch

The obsolete caliber is replicas of pre-1899 firearms, thus they are not antiqued based on manufacture date, but rather obsolete caliber.  They are a non-gun as in not defined by being Title 1 or Title 2.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 8:53:50 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Some are also antiqued based on obsolescence of their calibers too.
Not antiqued but rather classified as non-guns. Which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing.


No. Antique is based purely on Jan. 1, 1899. Nothing else. And even if antiques fire an obsolescent caliber they are _never_ classified as "non-guns". There is no such thing as a "non-gun" in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Read the Gun Control Act entirely and you'll clear this up.

Dutch

Not true. Antiques can also include firearms chambered for a caliber which is "not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." If you recall, Sportsman's Guide used to sell Martini's that were made in the 1930's, but were deemed antique because the proprietary 14 gauge cartridge they used was no longer available.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 9:05:40 AM EDT
You guys are right.  I took a look at the website again.  The Antiques are pre 1898 receivers.

Wow...  What a difference.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 8:58:45 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Some are also antiqued based on obsolescence of their calibers too.
Not antiqued but rather classified as non-guns. Which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing.


No. Antique is based purely on Jan. 1, 1899. Nothing else. And even if antiques fire an obsolescent caliber they are _never_ classified as "non-guns". There is no such thing as a "non-gun" in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Read the Gun Control Act entirely and you'll clear this up.

Dutch

Not true. Antiques can also include firearms chambered for a caliber which is "not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade." If you recall, Sportsman's Guide used to sell Martini's that were made in the 1930's, but were deemed antique because the proprietary 14 gauge cartridge they used was no longer available.


Duth,

That is true only for replicas of antique firearms, which the Martinis were.  Replicas using obsolete cartridges are included in the antique firearm definition.
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