Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 12/17/2002 4:01:21 PM EST
I recently (as in Friday) purchased a Norinco M14 and I want to put a scope on it. I usually have these things pre-planned in absurdum, so I normally know exactly what parts I want for a firearm project. However, this time I've come to a stand still. I don't know what scope I want to put on this rifle!

I built a HB AR15 over the summer, and I have a Leupold VX-II Tactical 3-9x40 on it. I built a Remington 700 in a sniper getup with a huge Springfield Armory on top of it. But for this one I don't know. I do have a "left over" Aimpoint XD...

Any ideas?
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:05:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By skullworks:
I recently (as in Friday) purchased a Norinco M14 and I want to put a scope on it. I usually have these things pre-planned in absurdum, so I normally know exactly what parts I want for a firearm project. However, this time I've come to a stand still. I don't know what scope I want to put on this rifle!

I built a HB AR15 over the summer, and I have a Leupold VX-II Tactical 3-9x40 on it. I built a Remington 700 in a sniper getup with a huge
\one I don't know. I do have a "left over" Aimpoint XD...

Any ideas?




How about on of thowse Springfield scopes
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:09:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 4:14:51 PM EST by skullworks]

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By skullworks:
Any ideas?

How about on of thowse Springfield scopes

Well, that would be easy. The thought has crossed my mind, but I don't know how durable the Springfield scopes are for extended use on a semi-automatic rifle as opposed to on a heavy su'mbitch sniper rifle.
Also, their prices are getting higher and higher.

Maybe I should rephrase my question:
Any ideas and/or any experience worth sharing? Fixed vs variable magnification, etc.?
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 5:48:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
I just nounted a 10x56 Valdadal
/ior/

Chech\k them out http://www.cactustactical.com/valdada.html#topofpage

Pretty pricey. I've actually never heard anything about them; I've seen them around, but never heard anything.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 10:46:42 PM EST
Nikon Monarchs are pretty good scopes; equal to Leupold, IMHO.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 2:12:20 AM EST
Leupold 3.5-10x40 L/R M3

Link Posted: 12/18/2002 4:44:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By GI_Brat:
Leupold 3.5-10x40 L/R M3

Perdy, real perdy!
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 4:45:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By skullworks:

Originally Posted By W-W:

Originally Posted By skullworks:
Any ideas?

How about on of thowse Springfield scopes

Well, that would be easy. The thought has crossed my mind, but I don't know how durable the Springfield scopes are for extended use on a semi-automatic rifle as opposed to on a heavy su'mbitch sniper rifle.
Also, their prices are getting higher and higher.

Maybe I should rephrase my question:
Any ideas and/or any experience worth sharing? Fixed vs variable magnification, etc.?

http://www.cactustactical.com/valdada/10x56tact.html

Ask the guys at www.swfa.com for their evaluation!

The scope would cost me more than the rifle did though. I'm trying to get away from that.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 5:13:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
That reminds me of what was said in Africa...You can always tell an American-He's the one with the thousand dollar rifle and the 50 dollar scope.

Well, so far the scopes have been about 50 cents to the dollar of the rifles. So yeah, if I had paid $1000 for a Norinco M14 the IOR would have been a nice fit.

I've been thinking more and more about getting a fixed 4x or 6x scope.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:40:28 AM EST
I like fixed power. Less Glass means better light transmission, lighter and less to break
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 9:55:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
I like fixed power. Less Glass means better light transmission, lighter and less to break

Exactly, plus that there are less moving parts to impact with the recoil of the rifle. Not that modern scopes are not designed to withstand that kind of abuse, but it allows for more Murphy leeway and Bubba factor.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 5:14:48 PM EST
I would first ascertain the inherent accuracy of the rifle as-is. Then determine what a scope will get you beyond that. Maybe you should upgrade the barrel and gas system first.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:29:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kissel:
I would first ascertain the inherent accuracy of the rifle as-is. Then determine what a scope will get you beyond that. Maybe you should upgrade the barrel and gas system first.

True. I have a GenIII mount on the way, so I guess I could use my leftover Aimpoint to check for grouping (I don't like the ironsights to begin with.)
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:00:48 PM EST
Once you read the instructions for mounting the SA gen 3 mount, you'll really wish you had gotten an ARMS mount, trust me. (unless you really want to take a hammer and pound the shit out of your rifle, I mean)
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:11:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
Once you read the instructions for mounting the SA gen 3 mount, you'll really wish you had gotten an ARMS mount, trust me. (unless you really want to take a hammer and pound the shit out of your rifle, I mean)

Do I detect a certain level sarcasm? I guess I'm in for a nasty surprise then? Actually I don't think the mount is an SA. Too soon to tell what kind of hell I have created for myself.

As for the scope issue, I think I'll buy a matte Leupold 4x33 from SWFA.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 11:31:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 11:34:07 PM EST by Zardoz]
Actually, I mean the "take a hammer and pound the shit out of your rifle" thing quite litterally..........

In their instructions, SA tells you that to mate the rails of the 3rd gen mount to the receiver, you should tighten the front screw as tight as you ca get it finger-tight, then "hit it with a hammer on either side". You are supposed to keep tightening and hitting, until the mounts' (which is made of aluminum) rails are smashed into the grooves in the receiver enough so that they are "mated" to each other, for return-to-zero purposes. I tried it, and hat to use a 2lb hammer, and had to really beat the shit out it to get it to cooperate. The problem (other than those assholes charging so much for a POS scope mount, then wanting me to beat up on my rifle), is that it doesn't mate up as well as it should, and that it's made of a too-soft alloy, and under recoil the mount won't hold up. Once it deforms to the point where the rails won't mate up well (only a few rounds was my experience), the mount is ruined.

P.S. Don't get me wrong---I really like Springfiled rifles, but whoever designed that mount is a f*cking moron (probably the same idiot who designed Leupold's magnetic boresighter)
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:00:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2002 1:02:24 PM EST by skullworks]

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
Actually, I mean the "take a hammer and pound the shit out of your rifle" thing quite litterally..........

I was afraid you'd say that.


You are supposed to keep tightening and hitting, until the mounts' (which is made of aluminum) rails are smashed into the grooves in the receiver enough so that they are "mated" to each other, for return-to-zero purposes... ..The problem, is that it doesn't mate up as well as it should, and that it's made of a too-soft alloy, and under recoil the mount won't hold up.
I never like alloy parts to begin with, at least not for rings and bases. If you try to hold somthing worth (on average) $400 to something that is worth about twice that, you'd want to use something that is not easily mallable. I use GG&G rings and bases on my Remington 700, and they're of eavy duty design in steel. The description of the scopemount I have on the way said it is steel. I'll be pissed if it's not.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:09:59 PM EST
Amen Zardoz. I hunt w/ my M1A. I also (at least in the past) regularly removed my SA 3rd gen mount for storage in my dinky little gun cabinet. This year, I sight in at 200 meters (SA 1st gen scope) and am dead-on-dick. When I get up north (WI), I go to mount the mount/scope assembly and lo! -- can hardly tighten the second screw (stripper clip guide anchor) at all. Dirty threads you ask? Nope. Sumbitch just won't tighten down w/o serious force, which I don't want to use because of my zero. Hunted the first morning w/o a scope at all (during which time I'm thanking the same moron who designed the POS that you described above). Early p.m. I say what the hell, mount the thing using excessive force, and shoot 2" left at 40 yards.

So, I call SA when I get back. As always, their service is excellent (I mean that seriously). The guy suggests I send in my entire rifle so they can remount the mount, using a stripper clip guide anchor that they will manufacture just for my rifle. The problem he diagnosed w/ my existing setup: the tolerances are such that the stripper clip guide anchor screw hole center can be off enough so that the mount has to be torqued on by Hulk Hogan to get it to go on at all. In short, if you want it right, you have to have the mount customized to your rifle.

As for the "mating" of the mount issue, I told him the vertical receiver-mate line on my mount was mashed and he told me that was good, it's supposed to do that. I somehow don't think it's as good as he says. Once mashed, the metal can be mashed easier the second time, etc. How is weakening the mount when mounting it GOOD for accuracy?

While I appreciate the thought, and probably will have the work done when I go down to Geneseo next month (keeping the mount as a backup), this (long) story apparently is not uncommon.

I'm looking for a good deal on an ARMS #18/19 setup right now. The cost for two hunks of metal is going to be ungodly.

As for the original question, I love my SA scope. Posters on other boards (GB in particular) crap all over them for reliability, but mine has worked fine since day one, and the built-in ballistic accuracy is reliable at distance. (I use Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168 grain ammo for sighting and hunting, which requires virtually no rezero over HP match ammo.)

For what it's worth.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 10:02:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rifleman308:
For what it's worth.

Well, I'm getting seriously disillusionized about the scope mount. I have a Springfield 6-20x56 on a Rem700 I built, and it's been working fine for me so far. I've been comparing prices online, and it seems as though the Leupolds over at SWFA are the best way to go for what I'm looking for.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 4:24:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
SNIP

P.S. Don't get me wrong---I really like Springfiled rifles, but whoever designed that mount is a f*cking moron (probably the same idiot who designed Leupold's magnetic boresighter)



That Boresight issuch a POS Leupold should refund my money!
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 10:55:00 AM EST
Well, I received the scopemount today, and it's a total letdown. It's a two screw aluminum POS with oversized screwholes. No markings as to who manufactured this crap. It's really dinged up too, though it doesn't look like any rings were ever mounted to it nor does it look like it's been on a rifle.

Well, I shall be in contact with the seller ASAP.

Rifleman308, if you learn of a good source of an ARMS #18 please give me a holler.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 1:47:09 PM EST
Wilco on that. I'm currently looking at sableco.com because, when I asked for best prices on this board, everyone came up w/ his name (Donnie). His prices are right out of the ARMS catalog, but he's offered free shipping. I'm also looking at having fulton-armory.com send me the #18 itself, because they sell em for 159.95.

Good luck. Sorry about your POS. Actually, who cares if your scope is properly mounted or sighted. Just use a high capacity magazine and keep firing until your target falls down. heavy.gif
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 2:48:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2002 2:51:31 PM EST by skullworks]

Originally Posted By Rifleman308:
Wilco on that. I'm currently looking at sableco.com because, when I asked for best prices on this board, everyone came up w/ his name (Donnie). His prices are right out of the ARMS catalog, but he's offered free shipping. I'm also looking at having fulton-armory.com send me the #18 itself, because they sell em for 159.95.

So far Fulton Armory and SWFA have the best price (159.95). Fulton Armory are temporarily sold out. Not that there's a snowball's chance in hell that I'd get the mount before early January anyway (regardless of where I bought it).


Good luck. Sorry about your POS. Actually, who cares if your scope is properly mounted or sighted. Just use a high capacity magazine and keep firing until your target falls down.
Thanks for the sympathy. The rifle did come with a grenadier's sight too, so elevated spray and pray should do the trick.

Edited to add SWFA.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 1:33:11 PM EST
Definitely go with www.sableco.net/ for the ARMS #18..........

Sorry 'bout the POS mount you got stuck with; that sucks!
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 2:19:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
Sorry 'bout the POS mount you got stuck with; that sucks!

It does, but I e-mailed the seller and he apologized and offered to replace it at no cost to me.

Since I've dealt with the guy before I had full trust in him coming through to rectify the situation. He said that he suspected that one of his employees sent out a base that had been returned to them. Doesn't really matter, he's trying to do the right thing so I can't complain.

Though we expect perfect service from businesses, the true measure of their quality can be seen when they try to straighten out something that went wrong. How often haven't you heard about some company that was great to deal with until they screwed up and they turned into a bunch of pricks?
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 2:01:22 PM EST
I have never found a mount to work satisfactory on the M1A M14 series. I have used B-square, Springfield Armory, and Brookefield Precision steel. Sure they work fine for your everyday plinking but as soon as you try an "end of the world drill" and start dumping 400 to 500+ rounds in a session it all comes loose. I even tried locktite on the threads.(thought about welding)... (joke).When the zombies and goblins are comming the M1A is an iron sight beast cause the mounts will let you down.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 2:19:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By jedi_rifleman:
I even tried locktite on the threads.(thought about welding)... (joke).When the zombies and goblins are comming the M1A is an iron sight beast cause the mounts will let you down.

I remember reading some article about how some Marine (could be wrong on what branch he belonged to) armorer was welding the mounts to the receivers of their rifles. For obvious reasons the mounts would rarely end up parallel to the bore.

The guy who wrote the article proclaimed the armorer to be a class A moron who should never be allowed near anything that could even be mistaken for a firearm. I think the article was in an issue of Tactical Shooter back in late '99 early '00.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 6:08:36 PM EST
mmmmmmmm........ well, I guess I'll see how mine does.... when ever I get some time to shoot it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:19:03 PM EST
Jedi: While it's not perfect, the U.S. military is usually a good yardstick for adopting weaponry and accessories that will stand up in heated confrontations. Uncle Sam likes the ARMS unit for the M14. My woes w/ my SA are already posted on this thread. I suggest going w/ ARMS and then reporting back after one of your 500+ round sessions.

BTW: What's the purpose of your "end of the world drill"? It sounds like an equipment test more than anything else, and will substantially shorten your barrel life if done with any frequency. How hot do you think your barrel gets after shooting 500 rounds in one sitting? Even w/ chrome lining, what do you think it does to your rifling? Your M1A will hold up, but that's gotta be a real honey to play with toward the end of your sessions. I wonder how you rate your bore.

For what it's worth.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:31:35 PM EST
It dosen't matter to me. I have at least 2 of every rifle and pistol that I own. This even goes for my deer rifles. I use 1 for hammering and testing purposes and 1 gets tested and sighted and stored as a backup. I basically do the same with ammo. I buy cases and then test for accuracy and functional reliability. Real good stuff gets stored and not so good stuff gets used up in the EOTW drills. Once barrels get "burned" I just call Clint and order a new 1 or send it to him and let him twist a new 1 on. No big deal. The confidence I get from the guns, mounts, scopes, accesories, and ammo that pass testing are well worth it to me.(You should see the looks I get when I rapid fire and fast reload 5 mags then grab a handfull of snow and cool "LU LU BELLE" off in a big hiss and a cloud of steam and then get right back at it.)
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:44:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By jedi_rifleman:
It dosen't matter to me. I have at least 2 of every rifle and pistol that I own. This even goes for my deer rifles. I use 1 for hammering and testing purposes and 1 gets tested and sighted and stored as a backup. I basically do the same with ammo. I buy cases and then test for accuracy and functional reliability. Real good stuff gets stored and not so good stuff gets used up in the EOTW drills. Once barrels get "burned" I just call Clint and order a new 1 or send it to him and let him twist a new 1 on. No big deal. The confidence I get from the guns, mounts, scopes, accesories, and ammo that pass testing are well worth it to me.(You should see the looks I get when I rapid fire and fast reload 5 mags then grab a handfull of snow and cool "LU LU BELLE" off in a big hiss and a cloud of steam and then get right back at it.)

And what do you do for a living?
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:05:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 11:07:56 PM EST by Morpheus]
Dude, why don't you be a REAL man and at least TRY the iron sights first. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Really though, just experiment with the iron sights a bit before you dump a lot of money on a mount and scope. The iron sights are actually "calibrated" for distance.

Shooting an M1A off a bench with a big scope and a bipod does not make you a better rifleman, it only tests the capability of the rifle, not the shooter. You should do your patriotic duty and become a true rifleman. Who knows, you might even enjoy yourself in the process. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with pegging the 300 yard gong with iron sights in the offhand position.

Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:22:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Morpheus:
Dude, why don't you be a REAL man and at least TRY the iron sights first. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Really though, just experiment with the iron sights a bit before you dump a lot of money on a mount and scope. The iron sights are actually "calibrated" for distance.

As stated before, I just don't like the design of the iron sights. If they were globed as on the HK G/MP series I'd be in good shape.


Shooting an M1A off a bench with a big scope and a bipod does not make you a better rifleman, it only tests the capability of the rifle, not the shooter. You should do your patriotic duty and become a true rifleman. Who knows, you might even enjoy yourself in the process. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with pegging the 300 yard gong with iron sights in the offhand position.
Also, I'm not looking for a big scope. I have a big scope (SA 6-20x56) on my Rem700, where it belongs. I'm looking for something more "scout like" for this rifle.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:28:52 PM EST
Here's a picture of the Norinco M14 in it's present condition, and one of its little (but older) brother the Bushmaster.



Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:31:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 1:36:11 AM EST by jedi_rifleman]

Originally Posted By skullworks:

Originally Posted By jedi_rifleman:
It dosen't matter to me. I have at least 2 of every rifle and pistol that I own. This even goes for my deer rifles. I use 1 for hammering and testing purposes and 1 gets tested and sighted and stored as a backup. I basically do the same with ammo. I buy cases and then test for accuracy and functional reliability. Real good stuff gets stored and not so good stuff gets used up in the EOTW drills. Once barrels get "burned" I just call Clint and order a new 1 or send it to him and let him twist a new 1 on. No big deal. The confidence I get from the guns, mounts, scopes, accesories, and ammo that pass testing are well worth it to me.(You should see the looks I get when I rapid fire and fast reload 5 mags then grab a handfull of snow and cool "LU LU BELLE" off in a big hiss and a cloud of steam and then get right back at it.)

And what do you do for a living?

I have been a full time weapons tester for a major firearms manufacturer since 1988. jedi_rifleman
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 2:35:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By jedi_rifleman:

Originally Posted By skullworks:
And what do you do for a living?

I have been a full time weapons tester for a major firearms manufacturer since 1988. jedi_rifleman

Talk about cake job! That's what I need.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 2:51:18 AM EST
Here is a good address for ordering Arms stuff:

FSottile@SWBell.Net

Give Frank an e-mail and he'll send you his price list - best prices I've seen.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 3:52:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Markwhiz:
Here is a good address for ordering Arms stuff:

FSottile@SWBell.Net

Give Frank an e-mail and he'll send you his price list - best prices I've seen.

Does he have a website? Don't know how he might react when he gets an e-mail from a complete stranger without advertising.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 8:00:30 PM EST

As stated before, I just don't like the design of the iron sights. If they were globed as on the HK G/MP series I'd be in good shape.
In the Brownells catalog (or on their website), they have a globe front sight designed just for the M1A.......
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 8:47:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zardoz:

As stated before, I just don't like the design of the iron sights. If they were globed as on the HK G/MP series I'd be in good shape.
In the Brownells catalog (or on their website), they have a globe front sight designed just for the M1A.......

Well then...
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 8:45:47 PM EST
Thought i would share my good fortune with you all.

I just picked up an arms #18 mount new, still sealed in the factory package on ebay for 134.00 including shipping.

You all shoud keep your peeps open for deals. Got to love the internet.

Link Posted: 1/4/2003 10:14:52 PM EST
I have a BPT and Arms 18, to mount on my NM. Not sure which one will be mounted at this time though? I'm on the prowl for the "right" scope.
Top Top