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Posted: 9/4/2005 6:29:28 PM EDT
What do you think makes a good trunk gun? What is a good trunk gun? What is your trunk gun?

Pistol, rifle, or both?

Would a Mosin-Nagant rifle make a good trunk rifle?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:30:25 PM EDT
AK- it's not going to get any uglier, it'll run under the worst conditions and it wasn't too expensive. Throw in a handful of magazines and you're good to go.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:40:14 PM EDT
An Ar of course.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:05:30 PM EDT
AK in 7.62x39; any good, RELIABLE combat/battle rifle, perferably in semi-auto and hi-cap; rommy WASR with hi-caps

Rifle, and sometimes a pistol as backup

better than nothing, but i think that a nice SKS would be better for roughly the same price
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:10:59 PM EDT
My behind the seat gun in my pickup is a Colt 6520 Govt Carbine
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:14:27 PM EDT
I always thought that cheaper guns were more suitable trunk guns. Is there any reason why the AR is better?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 8:56:56 PM EDT by NH_AR_Shooter]

Originally Posted By spork:
I always thought that cheaper guns were more suitable trunk guns. Is there any reason why the AR is better?



No, your trunk gun should be something you wont be too upset over having stolen or confiscated.

So ask yourself, $80.00 milsurp or $800.00 AR, which would you feel safer leaving in your car.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:36:53 PM EDT
A Mosin Nagant M44. A yard sale .30-30 lever action. A police trade in 870. Any robust, reliable, inexpensive long gun with commonly available ammo.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:37:48 PM EDT
So why a rifle over a pistol? Wouldn't a pistol be more practical?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 12:06:54 AM EDT
SKS, of course. Cant beat having a rock-solid reliable semi-automatic carbine for under $200
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 2:01:13 AM EDT
Answer to your first question, my choices:
Choice #1: commie rifle, SKS or AK. AK is easier/quicker to reload, but otherwise you get nothing more for the extra $200 that the AK costs. (With the savings between SKS and AK, you can purchase a MoJo aperature sight, which I highly recommend, and a case of ammo and still have some bucks for gas.) Further, the SKS in standard trim is less worrisome to gendarmes, should an occasion arise for them to see it. Ammo commonly available.

Choice #2: Tie. Mosin Nagant M38/44 for $100 or less (splurge for the MoJo -- another $55). Or, if you're sick of the People's guns, a Winchester 94/Marlin 336 in 30/30 bought used (one more time, get a good aperature sight, lke a Williams, for cheap)


Answer to your last question:
If it's a trunk gun, that means it's not at your side at all times. The fact that you're willing to make a trip around to the boot of the car means that the size and lack of ready accessibility/concealability is OK. Pistols are the choice only if a rifle isn't practical.

What do I do?
SKS, MoJo peep
50 rds of Lapua soft point in strippers and (in a readily-accessible bag in the spare tire well) and 200 rds in vacuum-sealed bag. (Expensive ammo, but well worth the difference as most Eastern-mfg projectiles show insufficient tissue upset. Practice with whatever, carry something that'll save your buttocks.)

In less than a minute, you can be in business.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:30:49 AM EDT
For rifles, I'd say a 10-22 with a Butler Creek folding stock. Fairly cheap and compact and 25 rd mags are $20 @ Academy all day long. For pistols, probably a 357 revovler. Can stay under your seat long term and you don't have to worry about the mag spring getting weak, of course some son't woory about that anyway.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:18:57 AM EDT
Would a Mosin-Nagant rifle make a good trunk gun, or is it better to use the SKS?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:40:45 AM EDT
SKS

cheap. effective. IF it rusts or get stolen, an new one can be had for a C-note.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:48:53 AM EDT
If you're like me and your trunk is the inside of your pickup, a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm folding rifle is pretty handy. I keep one with a full Glock magazine and another G18 magazine held on the forearm with rubberbands. That's 60 rounds of ammunition, stored on or in the weapon. The little thing is kind of funky, but it works well, shoots +P Gold Dot hollow points without a hitch, is cheap, and you'll never find a rifle that folds into a smaller package.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:49:41 AM EDT
a mosin would make a great trunk gun. it is the only caliber mentioned above able to kill all the game in my state of MN. most trunk guns around here get used for dispatching animals hit by vehicles. i would shudder to think what a po'd/car struck moose would do when popped with a .223/.22/7.62x39.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:53:36 AM EDT
Ma Duece with tripod.

Helps if you have a passenger to feed you the belt.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:02:38 AM EDT
I like the idea of the SKS however I would opt for putting a folding stock on it to reduce the overall size and increase the length of pull.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:47:50 AM EDT
The Ideal trunk gun would be definatly something that is reliable and durable with a minimal amount of maitnance. An AK would be an excellent trunk gun, as they are very affordible as are thery magazines and ammuntion. An AK from Century with 7 loaded magazines would certainly be adequate for a trunk gun. In an emergency, this would almost certainly provide you with a chance to get home from work/school to get your "party bag". For a trunk AK you would most certainly want it chambered in 7.62 M43. If it is in a trunk, there is a high probability that you may face a vehicular threat, and this round is very, very, very effective against a car, much more so than 5.45 or 5.56. An SKS with an integral 20 round magazine or one that is compatible with AK magazines would also be an excellent trunk gun. An SKS with a non detachible magazine will

handicap your reloading times, however with some practice you could probably fill a 20 round magazine almost instantly with stripper clips. The only concern about both of these weapons, mainly the AK, is they are the "weapon of the enemy" and are reputed to be a criminals weapon and you may be acosted by the publice or LEO's. My current "truck gun" is my LEO Mini 14 GB with 7 Ruger LEO 20 round magazines loaded with XM193 and a paratrooper bag with another 700 rounds, 6 Beretta magazines with BH 124grn +P Gold Dots and my Kabar. A Mini 14 or M1 Carbine is a reasonable choice as it will certainly attract less attention and having it out may be less threatening to people watching or fleeing. I would also rather explain a Mini 14 than a loaded AK clunking around the back of my vehicle. AK just screams bad gun, unfortunatly. An affordible FAL would also be an excellent choice, however I am personally a little leary of having something that looks too much like an assault rifle as I try not to inflame the ingnorant...its a very valid concern.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:57:30 AM EDT
I use a Marlin 1894S in 44 Mag. Bought it dirt cheap from a guy that just didn't like it. It stays behind the seat of the truck with a 50 rd box of ammo.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:13:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
SKS

cheap. effective. IF it rusts or get stolen, an new one can be had for a C-note.



Yep. I keep a beat up Norinco SKS with AK sling and 100 round bandolier in my trunk.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:36:55 AM EDT
SKS or AK. That way if it is beat up or stolen I won't be too bitter.

Max
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 12:05:44 PM EDT
I have to say +1 for a good ole lever action 30-30 pretty PC and an all around good gun.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 2:36:46 PM EDT
I'd go with a cheap Romanian WASR. I think its a great gun the current price they are at.
The last posters idea of a 30/30 lever gun is very valid however. The 30/30 is balistically
similair to the 7.62 x 39 and it wouldn't raise as many eyebrows as an AK. Of course, you
won't you use that trunk gun until a real emergency/SHTF occurs so at that time-who cares?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:31:22 PM EDT
california=sks

America=akm
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:37:29 PM EDT
How about trawling the pawn shops for a cheap Rem 870 beater. Chop to 18.25" and add a folding stock... voila, the perfect trunk clunker.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:00:54 PM EDT
I use a shotgun or a Kel Tec 9MM carbine. Sometimes both. That should cover me for most things I'd run into here in Iowa.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:44:16 PM EDT
AK Underfolder

Rifle caliber
Compact
Dependable
Cheap to shoot
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:03:36 PM EDT
Ideal would be cheap enough that you are not out 1500.00 when/if stolen and two.....one that you wont get scaulded in court if you have to use it.....think public image at the lowest jury member common denominator....they cant get you too bad for simply using a old beat up .30-30, but a "horrible automatic assault gun, like used on the very streets of bagdad ! ladies and gentleman of the court" is just one more scoop of poop you will have to eat in a shooting aftermath. That is if you choose something that looks remotely military to suzy homemaker.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:47:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 9:52:06 AM EDT by DevL]
I have never had a rifle stolen and do not buy guns on the premise of the guns being stolen. I do not buy guns based on replacement cost. I buy the best gun for the job. I had to ask myself why get the expensive AR and train with it if I am going to use a cheap Romanian AK for defense in real life? I sold the AK and carry my AR which cost several grand in my trunk. If my life will depend on my weapon why select an inferior weapon to defend yourself with and have a superior weapon to never be used? Do the police keep the M4s at the station and carry AKs in the trunk? Of course not. And so it should be for everyone IMO.

If you are concerned about having your rifle stolen I suggest getting a way to secure it better inyour vehilce or sell ALL your guns becasue they COULD be stolen from your home. You get a safe for home right? Get a rifle rack that locks for your trunk. Dont approach the problem backwards and come up with a backwards idea about what your trunk gun should be.

A "trunk gun" is "your gun" and it just so happens to be located in your trunk. Decide what your gun is... what you will use for training, for classes, what you shoot the most and best with, and put it in your trunk. THAT is your "trunk gun."
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:53:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
I have never had a rifle stolen. I had to ask myself why get the expensive AR and train with it if I am going to use a cheap Romanian AK for defense in real life? I sold the AK and carry my AR which cost several grand in my trunk. If my life will depend on my weapon why select an inferior weapon to defend yourself with and have a superior weapon to never be used? Do the police keep the M4s at the station and carry AKs in the trunk? Of course not. And so it should be for everyone IMO.

If you are concerned about having your rifle stolen I suggest getting a way to secure it better inyour vehilce or sell ALL your guns becasue they COULD be stolen from your home. You get a safe for home right? Get a rifle rack that locks for your trunk. Dont approach the problem backwards and come up with a backwards idea about what your trunk gun should be.

A "trunk gun" is "your gun" and it just so happens to be located in your trunk. Decide what your gun is... what you will use for training, for classes, what you shoot the most and best with, and put it in your trunk. THAT is your "trunk gun."



Amen - beat me to it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:19:40 PM EDT
I started carrying an SKS with eight extra stripper clips in a bandoleer after the Tyler, TX tragedy.

The previous post may make me rethink that.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:37:18 PM EDT
If the SKS is reliable and you shoot well with it, keep it in the trunk. It is not a weapon to be laughed at.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:48:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pillbox:
Ideal would be cheap enough that you are not out 1500.00 when/if stolen and two.....one that you wont get scaulded in court if you have to use it.....think public image at the lowest jury member common denominator....they cant get you too bad for simply using a old beat up .30-30, but a "horrible automatic assault gun, like used on the very streets of bagdad ! ladies and gentleman of the court" is just one more scoop of poop you will have to eat in a shooting aftermath. That is if you choose something that looks remotely military to suzy homemaker.



I hate to say it but I agree. You will be ripped to shreds in court if you're out about town minding your own business, when some guy goes apeshit and starts firing into crowds, and you drop him with your AK/AR/generic EBR.
Now if someone breaks into my apartment, hell yes they're going to see the business end of my AR/AK/whichever. Totally different situation. Like others have said it has to be disposable (re: cheap). I as far as "commonly available ammunition" goes, I don't see the need. Say you have your Marlin 30-30 in the back with a box of 20 shells... what are the odds you'll expend all 20 shells and need to acquire more "on site" during a crisis? Very few instances. If you're shooting more than 20 rounds in self defense, you need to get into your truck (where you keep your gun) and drive away from danger
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
I have never had a rifle stolen and do not buy guns on the premise of the guns being stolen. I do not buy guns based on replacement cost. I buy the best gun for the job. I had to ask myself why get the expensive AR and train with it if I am going to use a cheap Romanian AK for defense in real life? I sold the AK and carry my AR which cost several grand in my trunk. If my life will depend on my weapon why select an inferior weapon to defend yourself with and have a superior weapon to never be used? Do the police keep the M4s at the station and carry AKs in the trunk? Of course not. And so it should be for everyone IMO.

If you are concerned about having your rifle stolen I suggest getting a way to secure it better inyour vehilce or sell ALL your guns becasue they COULD be stolen from your home. You get a safe for home right? Get a rifle rack that locks for your trunk. Dont approach the problem backwards and come up with a backwards idea about what your trunk gun should be.

A "trunk gun" is "your gun" and it just so happens to be located in your trunk. Decide what your gun is... what you will use for training, for classes, what you shoot the most and best with, and put it in your trunk. THAT is your "trunk gun."



To each his own.

A: No locking car/truck gun rack or safe is thief proof.

B: Your car could be stolen, your rifle along with it.

C: Your car could be wrecked, or catch fire, goodbye rifle.

D: Your gun could be confiscated or taken as evidence in the event you actually have to use it. Guns taken as evidence are often never returned.

You are taking a risk if you leave a weapon in a car or truck, its your choice as to how much gun you want to place at risk. But don't pretend there is no risk.

Lastly, it is the man that matters more than the weapon, I'm just as effective with my SKS as I am with my AR-15, as far as defense is concerned.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:58:51 PM EDT
A cheap SKS you bought at the gun show, with a little elbow grease and care to make it reliable.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:13:07 PM EDT
Cheap answer: SKS
My ideal answer: M1 carbine.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:47:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NattyGuard:
Cheap answer: SKS
My ideal answer: M1 carbine.



Many years ago, when carbines were dirt cheap, they were the quintessential trunk/truck gun.

30cal Carbines and 30-30 lever guns....
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:17:56 PM EDT
derringer .22
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:18:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 11:19:31 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By spork:
So why a rifle over a pistol? Wouldn't a pistol be more practical?




Most of the rest of the country gets to carry their pistol on them


No one takes a handgun to a fight with enthusiasm.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:46:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sic_ness:
... You will be ripped to shreds in court if you're out about town minding your own business, when some guy goes apeshit and starts firing into crowds, and you drop him with your AK/AR/generic EBR...



Really? Cite one case where someone was convicted of an otherwise justifiable shooting because of weapon type...



Originally Posted By sic_ness:
... Now if someone breaks into my apartment, hell yes they're going to see the business end of my AR/AK/whichever. Totally different situation...



How, exactly, is that a "Totally different situation"??? (Unless it is illegal where you live to have a long-arm in a vehicle, of course - in which case it would be different.)



Originally Posted By sic_ness:
... Like others have said it has to be disposable (re: cheap)...



How much is your life (or those of your loved ones) worth to you?...



Originally Posted By sic_ness:
... I as far as "commonly available ammunition" goes, I don't see the need. Say you have your Marlin 30-30 in the back with a box of 20 shells... what are the odds you'll expend all 20 shells and need to acquire more "on site" during a crisis? Very few instances. If you're shooting more than 20 rounds in self defense, you need to get into your truck (where you keep your gun) and drive away from danger



It ain't the odds - its the stakes!

Most SD shootings are over in one or two shots, but I don't want to be the exception that proves the rule... how about you?


No flame or disrespect intended - I just disagree with every point in your post above. But opinions vary, of course...
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:31:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NH_AR_Shooter:

Originally Posted By NattyGuard:
Cheap answer: SKS
My ideal answer: M1 carbine.



Many years ago, when carbines were dirt cheap, they were the quintessential trunk/truck gun.

30cal Carbines and 30-30 lever guns....



That was exactly what I carried....I sure miss that little bugger!!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:29:01 AM EDT
Ok lets envision an scenario here

I'm out at Panera getting a cup of soup and bread, and some guy next door opens fire on Toys R Us, so I run ot my car, grab my SAR2, and rush in to confront him.
*POW POW* two shots, he's down and out.
His family sues. A poor, mentally unstable man who didn't know what he was doing when he comitted the crime, was gunned down by a psycho AK-toting gun fanatic, who scared a bunch of little children with his "terrorist" gun. "ladies and gentelmen of the jury, the defendant kept an semiautomatic AK47 assault rifle in his car, JUST WAITING for an excuse to open fire in our city!!"

This whole thread is a moral "what-if" and I'm sure we can both imagine scenarios where we'd be screwed if we shot someone in self defense out in the streets.

Would I be making concessions to the squeamish public by carrying a "deer rifle" in stead of an "assaullt rifle"? Hell yes. Offhand I can't cite any court instances where an EBR toting civillian got jailed for defending himself solely on the basis of what weapon he used, but I don't want to be the first. Maybe it's this foolishly liberal college atmosphere, but it really puts things into perspective how closed-minded and wimpy some people are.

If someone enters my home, there is a totally different picture to be painted. "I was cornered and had to defend myself!" is alot easier for a liberal fucktard to swallow, whereas "I had to stop the guy shooting at children" could easily be countered with "leave it to the police." I hear this stuff everyday on campus. It's amazing how dependent some people can be.
I'm young, and don't want to be jailed. If I can effectively defend myself and others with a lever action, and avoid public scrutiny, then what else needs to be said? It ain't the gun, it's the user. A poor carpenter balmes his tools.

And if everyone agreed on every issue, life would be boring.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:46:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sic_ness:
... Maybe it's this foolishly liberal college atmosphere, but it really puts things into perspective how closed-minded and wimpy some people are...



And if you concede important matters to them, they win. (And we ALL lose...)

Three degrees here (a BS & 2 Masters), two from a very liberal public university - I haven't budged an inch.

My prayers are with you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:26:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maxell27:
SKS or AK. That way if it is beat up or stolen I won't be too bitter.

Max



I kinda agree....esp with the AK idea, along the lines of an SAR1. I'd also vote for the ever-reliable Winny '94 loaded with 150 gr hollow point .30/.30 rounds. Just my .02
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:34:20 PM EDT
Your house can burn down, flood, be robbed etc. this of course means you should purchase "house guns" based on the fact they need to be inexpensive if you loose them.

Thats about how much sense you guys make. Anyone who will carry a bolt gun or lever action in the trunk to be politically correct is on the other teams side as far as I am concerned. I reccomend not carrying a gun at all to limit the possible negative outcomes.

I give up you can carry what you want. Just dont fool yourself its for any intelligent reason if you own better weapons at home than what are in your trunk. I hope you do all your prefessional training with your trunk guns. If not you are a fool IMO.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:16:42 PM EDT
My AK or Mini-14
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Your house can burn down, flood, be robbed etc. this of course means you should purchase "house guns" based on the fact they need to be inexpensive if you loose them.

Thats about how much sense you guys make. Anyone who will carry a bolt gun or lever action in the trunk to be politically correct is on the other teams side as far as I am concerned. I reccomend not carrying a gun at all to limit the possible negative outcomes.

I give up you can carry what you want. Just dont fool yourself its for any intelligent reason if you own better weapons at home than what are in your trunk. I hope you do all your prefessional training with your trunk guns. If not you are a fool IMO.



Professional training? What are we a swat team now?

Are you only competent with a several thousand dollar AR?

I would feel like a fool if I couldnt shoot as well with my "cheap" guns, SKS, AK, .30carbine, 357mag lever gun....as some mega dollar custom AR.

I think you just don't get it, the shooter is more important than the weapon.

Go ahead keep your several thousand dollar AR in your truck unattended, seems like a silly proposition.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:59:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Seydou:
AK Underfolder

Rifle caliber
Compact
Dependable
Cheap to shoot




+1, This is what I chose.

I am NOT an AK guy, not that I think they are horrible, just not as Ergonomic as my AR or FAL. BUUUT, with underfolder kits at $200, and the rest of the parts for about $100, and building it for free in a friends shop. I just couldn't pass it up for something to ride behind the seat of my truck, It's very compact, I don't care if the finish gets screwed, and I'm pretty sure there is nothing on it that won't take a beating.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 10:43:04 PM EDT by Accomplice]
My worst fear about having to use my trunk gun in public (Krebs KTR-03S in 7.62X39 with Eotech) is getting shot by the first LEO to arrive after I've engaged the bad guy. I think that AK does = 'bad guy' to many people and that AR probably registers slightly more as 'good guy' to some LEOs. But I know that my AKs always go bang so that is my 'go to' gun of choice. The fact that my Krebs is all black with a RAS hand guard helps tone down the AKness of it. That famous curved mag just screams AK though. I've thought of using 20 rd. mags in my trunk gun just to lessen the AK look. I don't think it would put me at too much of a round-count disadvantage just because if I can't solve the problem with 20 rounds then the few seconds spent on a mag change probably won't make much difference. Another option I'm considering for my trunk gun is the 5.45 caliber version of the KTR-03S (with its less curved mag) that will be here Friday. It does give away a bit to the vehicle penetration characteristics of the 7.62X39 but the lighter recoil will likely make for quicker follow up shots. Whatever I use, if I had to do some sort of shoot out with bad guys in public, I would surely lay down the gun as quickly as possible once the threat is gone so as not to get capped by the first officer to roll up. There should be some sort of protocol established for non-LEO first responders and LEO first responders to communicate intensions in active shooter scenarios.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:30:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 10:56:13 PM EDT by Accomplice]

Originally Posted By NH_AR_Shooter:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Your house can burn down, flood, be robbed etc. this of course means you should purchase "house guns" based on the fact they need to be inexpensive if you loose them.

Thats about how much sense you guys make. Anyone who will carry a bolt gun or lever action in the trunk to be politically correct is on the other teams side as far as I am concerned. I reccomend not carrying a gun at all to limit the possible negative outcomes.

I give up you can carry what you want. Just dont fool yourself its for any intelligent reason if you own better weapons at home than what are in your trunk. I hope you do all your prefessional training with your trunk guns. If not you are a fool IMO.



Professional training? What are we a swat team now?

I think you just don't get it, the shooter is more important than the weapon.



Everybody who owns these high capacity rifles should take every opportunity to get tactical, live fire training from a professional. It is so much different that plinking at the range. In the situations we're describing there are multiple shooters (you and at least one guy trying to kill you or others). Hope for the best (the bad guy has only logged a couple of range visits with his weapon) while preparing for the worst (the bad guy will've had extensive professional tactical training with his weapon). It may sound extreme but hey, we all own these things because we know that some day, something bad just might happen requiring us to defend ourselves, right? You'll have to be able to outperform the bad guy for reasons above and beyond the simple fact that you'd prefer to continue breathing. Because as you engage the bad guy(s) he's probably not going to be concerned with over-penetration or feel the need to be accountable for the placement of every round. Those will be factors you will have to wrestle with as the bad guy is trying to outshoot you. If you get the chance to take a vehicle related tactical class please do it. If one of these nutty situations ever befalls you, you'll likely be in or around your vehicle at the time. If you've trained in the correct set of default responses and logged numerous hours moving and shooting with your trunk gun, you'll probably shoot circles around any pack of gangbangers who ever draw down on you. Plus, tactical classes are just plain fun.
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