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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/21/2002 5:30:43 AM EDT
Is 30-06 the same as .3006"? If so that's an EXTREMLY precise measurement. I can't imagine what else it could mean.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:32:22 AM EDT
Caliber .30 the year of acceptance....1906
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:38:38 AM EDT
Why is there a 30-30? If .30 was started in '06, how could it also have been started in '30?
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:43:08 AM EDT
there is not necessarily a correlation between cartidge names and size or date. It depends on what the company or individiual that developed it decides to name it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:45:06 AM EDT
Greenhorn....you asked what 30-06 meant and gave you the explanation for that particular round. 30-30 is also a .30 caliber round and if you have seen one it is nothing like the 06' round. It has a rim. I don't know if the .30 designation was also the year but i guess it could be. there are numerous .30 calber rounds such as .308, 30.40 craig etc. None of them have anything to do with the 30-06 round.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:46:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
there is not necessarily a correlation between cartidge names and size or date. It depends on what the company or individiual that developed it decides to name it.



Yup..... then you have the 30-03.... 30 cal that was accepted for use in 1903.

Wasn't 30-30 a black powder round originally? So the it means 30 cal with 30 grains of black powder???? I was told that's what 45-70 was...

Anyone???
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:52:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:


Wasn't 30-30 a black powder round originally? So the it means 30 cal with 30 grains of black powder???? I was told that's what 45-70 was...

Anyone???



Yup
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:53:41 AM EDT
Greenhorn:

The .30-30 is a .30 caliber with 30 grains of powder. Same with the .30-40 Krag. (40 grains)

I believe the .308 is the bore diameter, which is why you can shoot pulled surplus .30 caliber bullets from a .308. The 8 one thousandths of an inch won't make that much of a difference.

If I am talking out my , please let me know.

-White Horse
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 5:59:41 AM EDT
The .30-30 was actually an early smokeless round, touted for its "high-speed, flat shooting" properties. It may be that it used 30 grains of powder, but which powder I don't know. 30 grains of FFFg powder would be a pretty light load.

Yes, the early cartridge designations were reloading recipes, essentially (.32-20, .25-20, .44-40, etc.). The .45-70-400, was a .45 caliber, 70 grains black powder with a bullet weight of 400 grains. Some included case lengths as well.

Many names of cartridges are not true in any literal sense. The .38 Special is actually the same diameter barrel as the .357 Magnum rounds and .36 caliber blackpowder guns. The .454 Cassull is the same bore as the .45 Colt, which usually uses a .452 bullet.

Some used the land diameter; others used the groove diameter. Some picked a number for the way it sounded, not for any actual measurement of the case.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:06:42 AM EDT
Okay, I lurk way more than I post here (obviously) but I'm enough of a gun geek to be curious about this one. That, and I'm really tired.

I thought the .30-30 was the first "crossover" round. It was originally designed for black powder - getting the second "30" designation for grains of powder - but was switched to "newfangled" smokeless prior to release. I may be mixing trivia - the Winchester '94 (IIRC) was designed around the .30-30 cartridge and had a beefier action than its predecessors to handle the increased pressure of smokeless. Don't know if the round ever went out the door with a BP charge, though.... (Did I mention I was tired?)

Ditto on White Horse's request for correction if this was a rectal recitation on my part.

Keith C.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:11:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 6:12:06 AM EDT by M1QJ]
Here's a little bit of edjumacation for ya

.30 caliber rifles bores are .300 before the rifling is cut. The rifling deepens it to .308.

In the US, we measure from groove to groove, .308. In Britain (and probably other countries) they measure from land to land. They'd measure a .308 (7.62mm) or .30-06, as a .300. The .303 British is .303 from land to land, but it would be .311 by US standards, measured from groove to groove.

Neat, huh?

Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:18:33 AM EDT
Thanks M1QJ.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:26:35 AM EDT
The 30-30 and 30-40 krag were early smokeless rounds the 30 and 40 stand for the ammount of smokeles powder that was originaly used. The 30/30 was introduced in 1895 for the winchester 1894 rifle. It was the first high velocity smokeless powder sporting round.
The Krag round dates to about 1892. This replaced the 45/70.

Oddly enough, I have a 45/70 trapdoor Springfield. I shoot this with blackpowder loaded cartridges, and I cannot fit close to 70 grains of black powder, regardless of the granulation.
Also, before WWII, the bore diameter was measured differently. This is why the .308 and 30-06 use the same diameter bullet, and are both considered .30 caliber.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:27:22 AM EDT
Honestly, there often seems to be no real way to come up with a designation for a particular cartridge. For example, the round I am working on now, the .69 uber-express-magnum, is actually a .50 caliber shell necked down to a .17 bullet, carrying 100 grains of powder.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 6:55:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 6:59:02 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 7:51:12 AM EDT
In .30-'06 the 06 means the year that the MILITARY accepted it. Back then, military weaponry, etc was referred to by the year it was accepted, thus the 1911 pistol, the 1903 Springfield, etc. As noted, the number after the dash in other rounds means something else. raf did a good job of splainin' it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 8:17:11 AM EDT
Yes and there was great panic just prior to 2000 that all rounds named with a year like the 30-'06 would suddenly stop working on new years day 2000. It was thought that since they were named with only a two digit year they would not function because they would think they didn't actually exist yet (30-06 wouldn't exist until 2006). Alas, after millions of dollars and hours of preperation, the dreaded Y2K ammo failure never materialized. We now, more correctly refer to such rounds as 30-1906 so that we never see date related failures due to a two digit date. A tragedy of biblical proportions was luckily avoided.



Mike
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 9:59:18 AM EDT
The first number is the caliber. The second number can mean alot of things and just serves to differentiate between other rounds of the same caliber.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:05:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 11:06:46 AM EDT by Noname]
A most excellent book on the subject of cartridges. It will tell you everything (and then some) on just just about every cartridge ever made or wildcatted...



Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:21:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Liquid_Snake:
Honestly, there often seems to be no real way to come up with a designation for a particular cartridge. For example, the round I am working on now, the .69 uber-express-magnum, is actually a .50 caliber shell necked down to a .17 bullet, carrying 100 grains of powder.


jesus christ, you can't be serious!!
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:27:27 AM EDT
Ok, now somebody explain to me women's bra sizes...lol
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:28:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
A most excellent book on the subject of cartridges. It will tell you everything (and then some) on just just about every cartridge ever made or wildcatted...







Oooo, ooo..... I have that book. Lots of cool rounds. Even LE/Govt use only.... but they give all the specs (case dimentions so on.)

Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:29:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By quietshoez:

Originally Posted By Liquid_Snake:
Honestly, there often seems to be no real way to come up with a designation for a particular cartridge. For example, the round I am working on now, the .69 uber-express-magnum, is actually a .50 caliber shell necked down to a .17 bullet, carrying 100 grains of powder.


jesus christ, you can't be serious!!



He is! Now, I'm taking a slightly different tact: I'm trying to take a .22LR and neck it *up* to .50 cal. I call it the .72 mushroom barrel buster.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buddha:
Ok, now somebody explain to me women's bra sizes...lol



Sounds like a new topic.... but it would probably get 'erased' by the 'female' moderators...
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:35:07 PM EDT
They probably can't explain it either
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:49:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
Why is there a 30-30? If .30 was started in '06, how could it also have been started in '30?



"30-30" was meant as .30 cal with 30 grams/grains (I forget which) of powder, AFAIK.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 9:08:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LgAnimalVet:

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:


Wasn't 30-30 a black powder round originally? So the it means 30 cal with 30 grains of black powder???? I was told that's what 45-70 was...

Anyone???



Yup


=============================================
NOPE..!

""The 30-30 and 30-40 krag were early smokeless rounds the 30 and 40 stand for the ammount of smokeles powder that was originaly used. The 30/30 was introduced in 1895 for the winchester 1894 rifle. It was the first high velocity smokeless powder sporting round.
The Krag round dates to about 1892. This replaced the 45/70.""

if black powder was ever used in a .30-30 Win. cartridge it was handloaded ! all "factory" loaded rounds were smokeless powder......

LS,
""Honestly, there often seems to be no real way to come up with a designation for a particular cartridge. For example, the round I am working on now, the .69 uber-express-magnum, is actually a .50 caliber shell necked down to a .17 bullet, carrying 100 grains of powder.""

hell that's nothyng, many years back there was an experimental round that used a 20mm case necked to an old phonograph needle...!!!!!!

sounds crazy but i belive it was in an old issue of G.D....., 60's vintage....




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